Playing Safe In 8Ball or 9Ball

Playing safe in 8Ball- BCA RULES

  • Ok once in a while

    Votes: 15 10.4%
  • Ok all the time

    Votes: 126 87.5%
  • not ok, conciddered dirty pool.

    Votes: 3 2.1%

  • Total voters
    144
Oh... and BTW... I was reading and replying to this post from my mobile and did not see it was a poll with limited choices. I was replying based on what I interpreted it to be a question about playing safe when someone was playing cheap/funsie pool.

I just now saw it was a poll. Which is a bit confusing it itself. The poll asks if playing safe in 8 ball is ok, not ok, or considered dirty pool, based upon BCA rules. Well, in BCA rules you can play safe anytime you want as long as it's a legal hit, so I only see one answer. What's more the question, based upon his post, is whether it's ok to play safety's like he described he did, when playing funsies/cheap pool and whether that might be considered a bit overboard is what I'm getting. That's the part I was responding too.

So I appear to look like a idiot responding the way I did, not knowing it was a poll with limited choices. :D I can't really imagine too many people that would like to be safed to death in a game for a lousy buck, unless they wanted to practice their kicking or they were the all gung ho type that think you should play the same game no matter what setting you're playing in. Which more power to those people, just some people aren't into that.

My answer would be if your playing in a tournament or gambling for anything more then el cheapo stakes, you most certainly should play safe whenever you have to, based upon your ability, which gives you the best percentage of winning the game.

If you're playing cheaply or for fun, you should limit your safety's to when you don't have a shot at anything or it would be stupid to play anything else but a safety. Each person playing for funsies or for real cheap, should make the decision on whether they want to play someone that plays safe all the time or not. Whatever each person likes, I would imagine, would determine whether they want to play with that person. There's no right or wrong answer to this question, as it is each person's personal preference.

If you don't like playing someone, DON"T PLAY THEM!

If you like playing someone, PLAY THEM AS MUCH AS YOU CAN!

wow.. that's pretty deep......:boring2:
 
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3,000 posts on azbilliards and you never heard of Irving Crane.

That's akin to a baseball fan who never heard of Babe Ruth.

I'm curious what your age is.

My nationality is more pertinent. How many English 8 ballers are household names in the US?
 
My nationality is more pertinent. How many English 8 ballers are household names in the US?


That explains it. Always good to have a diverse group of people on the forum.

Question - I know there is good money in snooker and the matches are well attended. Which is more popular among the populace to play, English 8 ball or snooker?
 
My line of thinking, right, wrong, or indifferent, is that a safety is another shot. And, yes don't have to play them all the time or even frequently in a recreational game with friends. I will occasionally play them in rec. games along with shots that I wouldn't normally play otherwise. If you don't practice safties how do you get proficient at them??

Gerry S.
 
Take it from me.

1) You played smart Pool.
2) The guy that got pissed was probably pissed because he probably beats you most of the time, and you outsmarted him.
3) If he is really an A player, he should have hit a 2 or 3 rail kickshot, at least one of them anyway.
4) I don't let anyone beat me that doesn't deserve it, except maybe a woman that I want to be intimate with later on that night ...:D:D

I get these young guys all the time that can run an 'open' table, and think they are really hot, so I leave them a difficult bank shot, and they are like a duck out of water.... I must admit I have a small sadistic streak in me, I like to show opponents what their weak points are in their game...:embarrassed2:
 
I prefer playing people that know when and how to safe up. Most of the people that I play with are APA 4-6 speed. If they don't play safe, I'm probably going to run over them. Having to respond to safety situations also helps my game. If I were to match up with similar people and play all-offense, there would be plenty of games that are simply wasted because of the high improbability of running out, which tends to leave the other with an open table. To me, that's much less fun than having to outplay and outsmart somebody. My own rating kept going up because I could play smart even when the other person could outshoot me. When I run into players that don't know the meaning of a safety, I can almost consider the game over before it's begun - you'll rarely find strong players that are safety-stupid. Like was mentioned, your friend was probably just drunk and tired of losing.
 
haha... I knew there would be a lot of people that would get their panties all in a twist about my reply:D

And for those of you that resort to making the stupid "you must not know much about pool", whatever...... I have lived and breathed this game for the past 30 years. And the majority of those years were around players that play this game for a living or play it for the money aspect. So I know the correct way to play the game, which is the way that gives you the best percentage of winning.

:

Yep, we all have watched pro's, shortstops and most have played the game for 30 years too..... big whoop..... But watching the pro's versus playing them does not really make you an expert,,,, just saying..

Playing the right way is the only way. He was obviously playing against a pretty darn good player, and that is the determing factor here.

But it appears your panties are in the wad since most think you are wrong.....
 
When my friends and myself practice 8 & 9 ball, we always play safes on each other.

When do you practice them if not when playing an opponent?
 
haha... I knew there would be a lot of people that would get their panties all in a twist about my reply:D

Ok, since many seem to be missing my point, let me spell it out a little better.

FIRST, these guys are playing for a buck a game. YES, the OP says a BUCK A GAME. My reply was based on them playing cheap or funsies, and I believe a BUCK A GAME constitutes as falling in the "cheap" category. So, yes, if we're playing cheap and someone plays a safe all the time instead of trying to actually win the game by god forbid, using skill to break out some balls then I'm probably not going to want to play them much.

I also said in gambling (meaning gambling for worthwhile stakes, a buck a game is not so much gambling, then just having a good time) and in tournaments, anything goes. Anything goes means you can play safetys until the cows come home, it's all cool. When you're gambling for worthwhile stakes, you should play in the fashion that gives you the best chance of winning. If that means you feel it's necesary to play safes all the time, more power to you, I got nothing against anyone doing whatever it takes legally, to win the game.

So when you're gambling for worthwhile stakes, I implore you to play in any way necessary to win. That's smart gambling. I don't hold anything against anyone that is gambling smart.

But for funsies or cheap buck or two a game or 10 dollar sets or something like that, I expect the person I'm playing to have a little more of a flexible game, meaning he shouldn't be treating this the same as if it was a 100 dollar a game match.

For freebie/funsie pool or for cheap buck or two pool or long sets for a lousy 10 bucks, it is MY OPINION, that a person should loosen up their game a tad bit and challenge themselves to try and run out. If they have problem balls, challenge yourself to get position to break them out. If you don't, play safe. It's all cool, at least you tried. But for someone to not even attempt to try and run out, someone who plays safe with ball in hand or shoots one ball and ducks again, that's a bit extreme in my book.

For gambling on anything more then cheap buck or two or long sets for cheap, then by all means play anyway you feel you have to to take down the money. If that means trying to get ball in hand on every shot, more power to you. In tournaments, you don't have a choice in anything, so I say anything goes in tournaments.

Bottom line is, I play pool for enjoyment at this stage in my life. If I'm playing for fun or gambling cheap, I"m not concerned about the money, we're just playing to hit balls around, sociable pool. If I play someone and they play safe with ball in hand, when they could have easily did something with the ball in hand to eliminate their problem balls, then I'm not going to enjoy myself. I want both of us playing to win for funsies/or cheap, I don't want someone trying to nit me to death.

If I match up to play where the money is significant enough that both of want to win it, then I expect/accept however they play. At this point, I am playing to win the money and so are they, so anything goes and it's all good. I would be getting in the game, because I think I can win, whether he flys at balls or safes me to death, I don't care because I"m expecting to win no matter what and I want to win the money. He can do whatever he pleases and I'm fine with it.

Some of you guys, are all into this play every game like it's the finals of the US Open, no matter whether you're practicing, or playing your Grandma, it's all about playing the correct percentages and playing in whatever fashion that gives you the best opportunity to win. Hey more power to you, enjoy your game, but if you're the type that's going to safe me to death, we're not playing. You can play someone else and I'll either practice or find someone else. Do your thing, I"ll do mine, no hard feelings.

It all really boils down to this......

If I'm playing for money and that is the driving factor for both of us of why we are playing, I will play in whichever way gives me the best opportunity to win and I expect you will do the same. I respect whatever you do to try and win the money.

But if we're just hitting balls around or playing real cheap/kicks and giggles bet, then I expect us to loosen our game up a tad bit. Which would mean if you don't have a shot anywhere, play safe. If you have a low percentage shot, maybe give it a try, but try and play safe too or leave me a real hard shot, if you miss.

It all comes down to why we're playing. If we're playing to win money, then it shouldn't matter whether they shark you, play safe on every shot, take forever to shoot, only going to play one set and quit... whatever, you're just playing to win the money.

For every other occasion then the one listed above, then we each should decide on what kind of people we want to play to enjoy our time at the table. Some of you may like someone to throw the kitchen sink at you and do whatever it takes to win, and that makes you happy. Some of you may think the person should shoot at everything, no matter whether you have 0 chance of it going in anywhere. And others like myself, like to play people that play smart intelligent pool but lean on the side of TRYING to win and challenge themselves to do that.

I could just as easily not want to play someone because they play stupid pool, by flying at everything or shooting at low percentage shots and not caring where the cueball ends up, as I could not want to play someone because they play safe all the time. Being able to play a good safe is just as hard to do as being able to make a hard shot, so I get great satisfaction at playing a good safe myself, or if someone played one on me.

And for those of you that resort to making the stupid "you must not know much about pool", whatever...... I have lived and breathed this game for the past 30 years. And the majority of those years were around players that play this game for a living or play it for the money aspect. So I know the correct way to play the game, which is the way that gives you the best percentage of winning.

So if you want to go all gung ho on my azz for a buck a game and play safe on me with ball in hand, I"m going to find someone else to play. I don't want your damn dollar that bad to play you, I'll find someone else to play, that has the nads to try and win for a lousy buck.:D:smile:

RED,
I guess we are the only two on here who sometimes like to play for fun and try things that we wouldn't normally try?
Howinell are ya gonna know if you can make that hard shot if you don't try it in a game once in a while?
 
Yep, we all have watched pro's, shortstops and most have played the game for 30 years too..... big whoop..... But watching the pro's versus playing them does not really make you an expert,,,, just saying..

Playing the right way is the only way. He was obviously playing against a pretty darn good player, and that is the determing factor here.

But it appears your panties are in the wad since most think you are wrong.....

Whatever, i'd put my knowledge up against yours any day.

My boxers are hardly in a wad. As you can't seem to grasp my message (not the 1st time, you've shown before you only read what you want to) let me make it more consise for you.

This thread is a opinion thread, there is no wrong or right answer. That's right, you don't get to be right, sorry to burst your bubble.

If you enjoy playing people that are scared to run out and play safeties at the drop of a hat, by all means play them and enjoy yourself.

I'd rather play people that try to find a way to run out and at the same time play me safe by leaving me no shot or a difficult one, if they do miss.

Like I've said before I enjoy playing safes and getting out of a good safe, but for a buck a game I would expect some more offense unless it was a mutual understanding beforehand that that's the way we were going to play.

You have fun your way and tthommy and I will have fun ours.

Always enjoy opinion threads where certain people can't handle people that have differing thoughts. Has to be their way or they can't deal with it. Sorry but there's nothing you can do to change my opinion. Your welcome to voice yours and I promise I won't question one word of yours.

Again there is no wrong or right answer, its a matter of personal preference just like what game you favor over another. Or if I tell you I like onepocket and banks, are you going to tell me that's wrong too.
 
The philosophy of snookers players has changed in recent years. It used to be they'd adopt a 'safety first' approach, hoping to force opponents into errors. The new breed of Hendry, Williams, O'Sullivan and co all realised the limitations of this, and saw the advantages of being more attack minded.

Put simply, to turn down risky pots in favour of easy safeties led to you becoming good at easy safeties and poor at difficult shots. To attack is expansive; to defend restrictive. You will always be a limited player if you're safety minded.

You improve by attacking. Those that play safe against their friends in a social setting are either small minded or simply cannot play, simple as.
 
That explains it. Always good to have a diverse group of people on the forum.

Question - I know there is good money in snooker and the matches are well attended. Which is more popular among the populace to play, English 8 ball or snooker?

English 8 ball, by a country mile. Lots of local pubs have tables and there are many leagues etc, so you get a mixture of casual and serious players.

Snooker's not that widely played, not least because there are far fewer tables. There are quite a few 'working men's clubs' still around that cater for snooker players, but these are dwindling in number and have an ageing membership. I only rarely see good snooker players these days - it's a dying game here, hence courting the Chinese market.

I'd say there are no more than 3-400 serious American pool players in the entire UK, which isn't much given the population's 60+ million. Mosconi Cup aside, there's zero coverage of the game in the media, even when Appleton or Peach win world titles etc.
 
You played correctly. Your friend if he is truly an A player should be more understanding of the nuances of 8-Ball and the safety play that comes with it, and be more respectul of your proper playing strategy. Safety play is an essential element in all the BCA league matches that I have I played over the years. And every advanced player that I have played against has played safes against me when it was necessary just as I have done against them, and I cant remember any of my opponenet getting pissy over a proper safe I played against them. At least among the local opponents I have dealt with we have tried to be respectful of each other when competing. Safety play is a necessary and essential part of the game. Your friend needs to get a handle on his emotional control and be more respectful not only to you but to any opponent that he plays against.
 
In local pool leagues where I live, I see lots of people losing games where a bad safe was played.

What I don't understand is---a couple women playing 8-ball who are a low handicap and can't run more than 3 balls in a row...and they are playing each other safe. They act like they are afraid of their opponent running the table. They really need to make balls and at least try.

Missing on purpose and letting your opponent up to the table to win a game just doesn't make sense in some situations.

The more aggressive good players win more, plus they play two-way shots. Try and make the ball, plus leave the opponent safe in case they miss.
 
I play safes all the time, in friendly matches as well as in league or tournaments.... (Or should I say I attempt to play safe, heh)

Of course, the people that I play with all play much the same as well. Some play safe more than others, just a game philosophy, but not an issue like described here.

If I were to be playing with a friend who was vocally against playing that style, and it was a friendly game (not a tournament), I'd probably ease up a bit on the safes, or at least play to leave'em long.

Fortunately for me, this isn't an issue where I play. We're all trying to win, and to get better. Someone playing a great safe will get as much congratulations as one who makes a great shot. (Yes, they'll get their balls busted a little too... "Nice shot, Alice, want me to hold your purse?" All in good fun, for laughs, and then work at getting a good hit, which will also be congratulated.)

Like anything, you need to know your environment. In general, you did nothing wrong.
 

Ok, So a real good friend of mine that is rated a 100 speed every where, whom I have played pool for at least 17 years and another friend of mine were playing pool tonight. We started playing a ring game of 9Ball for a dollar a game. We all broke even 8 games each. Then we started playing King of the Hill, 8 Ball. That is just playing one on one, looser sits out. We were playing BCA Rules. Well I won about 4 games in a row and my buddy that I've played pool with for 17 years that played on a BCA league forever got so upset that he left and went home because I played safe on him twice in a row. I got ball in hand both times and won the game. Just to clarify a 100 speed is equal to an "A" player and should get in at least 17th place in Vegas open. We were just getting ready To go eat at Denny's because it was about 2AM in the morning. My other friend was so upset and disappointed how the guy acted that he didn't even want to go to Denny's. We played 8 Ball for about another 1/2 hour. So anyways are you guys not playing safe out there or is my buddy just a poor sport? I broke and came up dry. He ran out to the 8 ball and missed the 8. I ran and played safe on a cluster of my balls and breaking them out. I then got ball in hand and made one of my balls and played safe because the 8 was blocking the path to my other ball. Got ball in hand again and got out. Both safes I played was so locked up that he couldn't even kick at the 8 ball. The cue ball was frozen to my ball with 1,2 & 3 rail kicks close to impossible. His fault for missing the 8 right? Am I wrong? He got pissed & left.

For a dollar a game, I would have played to break out the cluster using one of your other balls and ducked once for the ball blocking the 8-ball or any issue from the cluster break-out. Otherwise, you are not expanding your run-out ability in the long run. IMHO, one dollar games are good time to practice run-out strategies for a little pressure. I suspect your friend was exasperated by the combination of his missing the 8-ball and the lock-up to win the game.
 
English 8 ball, by a country mile. Lots of local pubs have tables and there are many leagues etc, so you get a mixture of casual and serious players.

Snooker's not that widely played, not least because there are far fewer tables. There are quite a few 'working men's clubs' still around that cater for snooker players, but these are dwindling in number and have an ageing membership. I only rarely see good snooker players these days - it's a dying game here, hence courting the Chinese market.

I'd say there are no more than 3-400 serious American pool players in the entire UK, which isn't much given the population's 60+ million. Mosconi Cup aside, there's zero coverage of the game in the media, even when Appleton or Peach win world titles etc.

That's interesting, thanks for the reply.
 
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