Training for a backstroke pause

Efren's cadence is interesting. However many warm-up strokes he takes he will pause at the CB for a moment, then take one more practice stroke then fire. Whatever pause he has at the back of the stroke before going through the CB is really just the mathematics of the change in direction. I doubt he really is taking any kind of conscious pause or even feels a pause. But after he pauses at the cue ball he always takes that one practice stroke before he fires.
 
Yes, I noticed the same thing. But it sounds crazy to think his pause could be so long that it begins on the second to last stroke. Look at his eyes, that might tell alot.
 
"I don't see so and so doing it"....really? They do it.
I just scanned a bunch of YouTube pro matches and watched for obvious pauses between last backstroke and shot stroke. Here's the result of my brief survey:

OBVIOUSLY PAUSED
Hall (the longest pause I saw)
Wetch
Sigel
Souquet

DIDN'T OBVIOUSLY PAUSE
McCready
Deuel
Basavitch
Chamat
Bustamante
Reyes
Archer

For what it's worth...

pj
chgo
 
PJ,

Find a video of John Morra, then put him in the "Obviously Paused" bucket.
I'll take your word for that. I'm just pointing out that, based on a brief random sampling, it seems that far less than all pros obviously do it.

pj
chgo

EDIT: Saw a bit of a match between Morra and Pagulayan. Both obviously pause.
 
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I'll take your word for that. I'm just pointing out that, based on a brief random sampling, it seems that far less than all pros obviously do it.

pj
chgo

EDIT: Saw a bit of a match between Morra and Pagulayan. Both obviously pause.

Ah, yes. I would agree with that. Certainly fewer make that real noticeable pause than those that don't seem to pause at all (even if they do). Maybe some haven't tried it or have tried it and, not seeing a noticeable improvement, didn't stay with it. One size doesn't fit all for sure, that's one thing I love about this game.

Efren is the best example of this. Not only doesn't he pause at the back, he doesn't even pause at the CB before he pulls back for the last time. As I mentioned, he takes a full practice stroke AND actual stroke without any noticeable pause. His last noticeable pause (and even this one is fairly short) is before the last practice stroke.
 
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I like the pause and try to do it the very short pause not the extended long multisecond Buddy Hall version. Thanks Scott L/Jerry B/Mark W/Stan S for all the help.

However I would like to disagree and state that you do not have to pause at the back. I think it is physically possible to pull the stick back and then go forward without pausing. Players that go fast back and jerk it around and go forward they do not pause or even stop the butt end of the cue I would be willing to wager I can prove that using many average players and high speed photography from above looking down from above watching the back of their cue. This is possible by having a circular stroke at the back so come back on the inside and swing it toward the outside at the back and then go forward. Or pull it back with elbow up and drop the elbow as the elbow come forward the tip can stop but the back of the stick is in constant motion. This is how a crankshaft works, it allows the piston/tip to stop at the bottom of the cylinder end of the back swing. The piston/tip come to a stop at the top and bottom of each revolution the crank end of the connecting rod (butt of cue) stays in constant motion. I do not recommend that people use a curve/hook in the back swing but it is obvious that it is possible.

What Scott Lee teaches is the tricep backswing, bicep forward using the single elbow joint which forces the back and forth motion at the back of the cue to be straight the same as the tip. Keep elbow in same location at least until the tip is thru the cue ball. This is great and to be implemented if possible. I think from watching many players that straight back, pause, forward and through is not executed by most players.
 
I like the pause and try to do it the very short pause not the extended long multisecond Buddy Hall version. Thanks Scott L/Jerry B/Mark W/Stan S for all the help.

However I would like to disagree and state that you do not have to pause at the back. I think it is physically possible to pull the stick back and then go forward without pausing. Players that go fast back and jerk it around and go forward they do not pause or even stop the butt end of the cue I would be willing to wager I can prove that using many average players and high speed photography from above looking down from above watching the back of their cue. This is possible by having a circular stroke at the back so come back on the inside and swing it toward the outside at the back and then go forward. Or pull it back with elbow up and drop the elbow as the elbow come forward the tip can stop but the back of the stick is in constant motion. This is how a crankshaft works, it allows the piston/tip to stop at the bottom of the cylinder end of the back swing. The piston/tip come to a stop at the top and bottom of each revolution the crank end of the connecting rod (butt of cue) stays in constant motion. I do not recommend that people use a curve/hook in the back swing but it is obvious that it is possible.

What Scott Lee teaches is the tricep backswing, bicep forward using the single elbow joint which forces the back and forth motion at the back of the cue to be straight the same as the tip. Keep elbow in same location at least until the tip is thru the cue ball. This is great and to be implemented if possible. I think from watching many players that straight back, pause, forward and through is not executed by most players.

The bending of a joint requires the use of two muscles and not one muscle in one direction and another muscles in the other direction. One muscle to expand, while one muscle contracts.

You got some bad info and people wonder why I have a hard time with "trained" instructors. Oh wait, maybe is was the easiest way to teach, even though not accurate in how describing a joint bends.

While the bicep is contracting, the triceps is expanding. When the triceps is contracting, the biceps is expanding.

It is this transition the muscles do when changing the direction of the stroke that may require some people to pause and some not. Some can make this transitions smoothly, some can not.
 
I just scanned a bunch of YouTube pro matches and watched for obvious pauses between last backstroke and shot stroke. Here's the result of my brief survey:

OBVIOUSLY PAUSED
Hall (the longest pause I saw)
Wetch
Sigel
Souquet

DIDN'T OBVIOUSLY PAUSE
McCready
Deuel
Basavitch
Chamat
Bustamante
Reyes
Archer

For what it's worth...

pj
chgo

What's this obvious/not obvious crap? It is. Whether it is small or big dosen't matter. It is the why and how that matters. Obviously, there is a reason why it is important----EVERYONE that plays jam up does it for the simple reason that stroke is more important than aim.
 
Duckie,

You really are something else. Did you stop to think that Elviscash just did not describe the entire bio-mechanical principle for brevity sake?

You take at as a chance again to pick a post apart and then knock an instructor.

If you REALLY want to see all of the misinformation you think Scott Lee teaches why don't you hook up with him personally and find out.:rolleyes:



The bending of a joint requires the use of two muscles and not one muscle in one direction and another muscles in the other direction. One muscle to expand, while one muscle contracts.

You got some bad info and people wonder why I have a hard time with "trained" instructors. Oh wait, maybe is was the easiest way to teach, even though not accurate in how describing a joint bends.

While the bicep is contracting, the triceps is expanding. When the triceps is contracting, the biceps is expanding.

It is this transition the muscles do when changing the direction of the stroke that may require some people to pause and some not. Some can make this transitions smoothly, some can not.
 
The bending of a joint requires the use of two muscles and not one muscle in one direction and another muscles in the other direction. One muscle to expand, while one muscle contracts.

You got some bad info and people wonder why I have a hard time with "trained" instructors. Oh wait, maybe is was the easiest way to teach, even though not accurate in how describing a joint bends.

While the bicep is contracting, the triceps is expanding. When the triceps is contracting, the biceps is expanding.

It is this transition the muscles do when changing the direction of the stroke that may require some people to pause and some not. Some can make this transitions smoothly, some can not.

Are you a physiologist? If so, this is why I have a problem with "trained" professors. Oh wait... maybe that was the easiest way to teach you? Lol

New flash: Muscles do NOT "expand" to move joints.

Muscles can only contract and relax. It's an electrochemical thing, caused by the action potential in the muscle fibers themselves. That's why the good Lord put them in opposition in every moving part of your body. Not just your body, but in the skeletons of just about every moving creature on the planet.

The best reason I can think of for the pause is to allow the triceps to totally relax so that it doesn't pull the lower arm off the intended line of aim when the biceps contracts to deliver the stroke.

This is one of the guiding principles of internal martial arts such as Tai Chi. The forms contain both quick and extremely slow movements, with small, almost imperceptible, pauses at the transitions between moves. This micro pause trains the body to relax the adductor muscles before the contraction of the abductors begins, and vise versa. Over time, great speed, power, and accuracy in blow placement is obtainable, while to the uninitiated, some old Chinese guy in the park is just "dancing in slow motion." Trust me, don't test him. ;)

After thinking about this and watching dozens of top level players over the last several days, I have come to believe that almost all good players pause at the very end of the backstroke for at least a very brief - but still visibly detectable - time period.

Even the few where I saw absolutely no pause at all (Busta and Efren) might have benefited from it as well... but why fix what ain't broken, ya know?

EDIT:

Sorry, I reread my post and realized I got that wrong about the triceps relaxing at the pause, it is the biceps that is relaxing at that point. Haven't had the morning cuppa yet.
 
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All I know is, it works for me. For 30 years I shot without a measurable pause. Last year at the Valley state, Dr. Cue. discussed it. It made sense and I decided to change my stroke. It took a few months to get used to the pause, but my game has greatly improved because of it.

I highly recommend it.
 
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Works for me too, and I teach it if I think a student's stroke needs it. But it's often enough to just have a slower, more measured backstroke.

pj
chgo

I agree. I think that once you come to a stop at the end of your backstroke, it really doesn't matter how fast or slow you just brought your cue back because the stroke begins at that point. It's an alternative for players who can't control the speed of their backstroke. It's about timing, acceleration and eye coordination.
 
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It's called observation. It's how we tell fact from uninformed speculation.


Forcing the truth to be what you want it to be takes LOTS MORE CAPITAL LETTERS.

pj
chgo

BULLSH!Thows that? Want capitol letters? you need to thank ME for giving you what you NEEDED. A STURDY slap on the ASS to knock off all the NONSENSE you've been FEEDING your STUDENTS.

WANT MORE CAPITOLIZATION?
 
BULLSH!Thows that? Want capitol letters? you need to thank ME for giving you what you NEEDED. A STURDY slap on the ASS to knock off all the NONSENSE you've been FEEDING your STUDENTS.

WANT MORE CAPITOLIZATION?
On AzB, when you run up against pesky immovable facts the accepted practice is to go BIG AND BLUE.

Just a helpful hint for noobs...

pj <- enjoyed the slap on the ass, though
chgo
 
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on azb, when you run up against pesky immovable facts the accepted practice is to go big and blue.

Just a helpful hint for noobs...

Pj <- enjoyed the slap on the ass, though
chgo

you a delusional lie-ing sack of crap!

PJ<------finally out the closet. OMG HOORAY!
 
I guess straight men like a little tap on the ass every now and then. I would have to show you a few pictures and test your heart rate to confirm.
 
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