One size does not fit all.

[duckie]

There have been several threads that have the tone of one size fits all when it comes to pool shooting.

This is not the case. Not every shot will allow you to be in the perfect shooting position that is shown in some thread. For example, the high elbow and the pics of the low stance. That is just one shooting position that will be encountered in shooting pool. Have the CB 1/4 inch from the rail and the shot you need to do requires draw. You got to jack up and shoot downward which can not be done with the low stance.

There are some shots that a require different length of pauses and not the same amount of pause on all shots.

The grip pressure need will vary with what you need to do with the shot and is not the same on every shot.

The idea that instructors teach what is easiest and not what best or the student is the best example of one size fits all.

And so on.

What is missing the real world aspect of shot making. What is normally shown are ideal shooting situation and simple cuts shots as proof something works and is the way to do it.. In the real world, not every shot is gonna be in the ideal shooting situation and it is these situations that separate the players from the wanna be's.

Just remember, one size doesn't fit all when someone implies "this is da bomb."

 

[berko]

A dogmatic proclamation against dogma.

Your posts would be more tolerable if you acknowledged the irony.

 

[Masayoshi]

I think its best to start with a cookie cutter approach and modify and personalize it once you come to realize its short comings.

The instructor taught methods are generally created to eliminate bad habits among weaker players, not to create an ideal stroke. Once you have a solid base upon which to build, THEN you can move out of the mold and personalize your style (and go on AZB and tell players much better than yourself how they should be playing).

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I am continually amazed with your posts.

You write a lot, however you don't really say anything.

Since a video is worth about a billion words, I am looking forward to your instructional video, post it on youtube.

Why don't you start with showing us how some shots require an extended pause, and some don't.

 

[lfigueroa]

Here's another trend I see a lot here lately: bashing a particular poster for no good reason. What duckie has pointed out is actually very insightful. But some guys would rather just take pot shots.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Lou,

Tell me Lou, when he comes on someones thread and craps on it like in the example below, it seems to me that he should be prepared for different opinions.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3618702&postcount=4

You have opinions just like I do. As such I think we should be allowed to express them.

Personally I would love to here from him expanding upon his ideas, instead of always writing in generalities. Which is why I asked specifically for his examples of shots that require extended pauses.

Lou, if you consider that as "bashing a particular poster for no good reason" then I don't have anything else to say to you.

Here's another trend I see a lot here lately: bashing a particular poster for no good reason. What duckie has pointed out is actually very insightful. But some guys would rather just take pot shots.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

Tell me Lou, when he comes on someones thread and craps on it like in the example below, it seems to me that he should be prepared for different opinions.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3618702&postcount=4

You have opinions just like I do. As such I think we should be allowed to express them.

Personally I would love to here from him expanding upon his ideas, instead of always writing in generalities. Which is why I asked specifically for his examples of shots that require extended pauses.

Lou, if you consider that as "bashing a particular poster for no good reason" then I don't have anything else to say to you.

Tony

I understand that you may not like or just disagree with what a poster says in another thread -- but that has nothing to do with this thread. Deal with that in the other thread. Otherwise it's kind of like an old girl friend of mine -- we'd get into an argument and she'd bring up something that had happened eight months before and had nothing to do with the issue at hand.

On it's own merits, I think what duckie says in his original post *in this thread* has value. Of course -- everyone is entitled to express their opinion. But honestly, if you think duckie's threads are ca-ca -- and you see he's started a new one -- why don't you just not open them, or put him on ignore? I don't consider disagreeing with someone on any particular point as "bashing." But stuff like this is:

"I am continually amazed with your posts.
You write a lot, however you don't really say anything."

One last thought: we're here to talk, or I guess more accurately, *write* about pool. IMO, nobody owes anybody video.

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Here's another trend I see a lot here lately: bashing a particular poster for no good reason. What duckie has pointed out is actually very insightful. But some guys would rather just take pot shots.

Lou Figueroa

Coming from the GRAND PUBA of poster-bashers and taking pot shots.

Gimme a break.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

There have been several threads that have the tone of one size fits all when it comes to pool shooting.

This is not the case. Not every shot will allow you to be in the perfect shooting position that is shown in some thread. For example, the high elbow and the pics of the low stance. That is just one shooting position that will be encountered in shooting pool. Have the CB 1/4 inch from the rail and the shot you need to do requires draw. You got to jack up and shoot downward which can not be done with the low stance.

There are some shots that a require different length of pauses and not the same amount of pause on all shots.

The grip pressure need will vary with what you need to do with the shot and is not the same on every shot.

The idea that instructors teach what is easiest and not what best or the student is the best example of one size fits all.

And so on.

What is missing the real world aspect of shot making. What is normally shown are ideal shooting situation and simple cuts shots as proof something works and is the way to do it.. In the real world, not every shot is gonna be in the ideal shooting situation and it is these situations that separate the players from the wanna be's.

Just remember, one size doesn't fit all when someone implies "this is da bomb."

Please give one example of someone who said this one technique does everything.

Thanks.

 

[CreeDo]

When someone recommends a certain stance, or pause, or aiming system, or whatever... they didn't come up with it in an empty vacuum. The guys who come up with this stuff HAVE hit a ball before. Many of them hit balls amazingly well. They were aware there will be situations where it will be awkward may not help.

I'm not sure where you're going with this but it sounds like you're saying "don't bother with this stuff, it's overrated because in many situations it won't work or doesn't apply".

Kind of like, "don't listen to that guy's advice on how to be a better pilot, because sometimes you'll be walking."

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I think I covered it with this statement in my post "Personally I would love to hear from him expanding upon his ideas, instead of always writing in generalities." Which is why I asked specifically for his examples of shots that require extended pauses."

It is his continuing writing in generalities, with no substance or examples that leads me to my opinon that he writes alot but really does not say anything.

Sorry if you feel that is bashing.

BTW I asked for the video, because I am professionally curious to see if his technique have improved over his HAMB journey. Besides doing something is very different then writing about it.

Tony

I understand that you may not like or just disagree with what a poster says in another thread -- but that has nothing to do with this thread. Deal with that in the other thread. Otherwise it's kind of like an old girl friend of mine -- we'd get into an argument and she'd bring up something that had happened eight months before and had nothing to do with the issue at hand.

On it's own merits, I think what duckie says in his original post *in this thread* has value. Of course -- everyone is entitled to express their opinion. But honestly, if you think duckie's threads are ca-ca -- and you see he's started a new one -- why don't you just not open them, or put him on ignore? I don't consider disagreeing with someone on any particular point as "bashing." But stuff like this is:

"I am continually amazed with your posts.
You write a lot, however you don't really say anything."

One last thought: we're here to talk, or I guess more accurately, *write* about pool. IMO, nobody owes anybody video.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[MahnaMahna]

There are many of us who have made our beds, so to speak, on theses forums.

Which means that due to prior threads, posts, arguments, etc. it would be f*cking stupid to think that when Duckie makes a thread like this, or Lou puts on his nice girl dress and defends anyone, other people such as Spidey will jump in and introduce the pot to the kettle.

Just stop with the bullsh*t already, Duckie thinks he knows the game well enough to put these sorts of ridiculous threads out there, Lou has to defend one of the anti-aiming guys, and Spidey has to rip the anti-aiming guy for any sort of instructional posts. Just par for the course so far.

EDIT: ah, forgot about Neil also ripping the anti-aiming crew, inspirational!

 

[lfigueroa]

Duckies post is nothing more than another weak attempt to try and discredit the actual instructors on here. The fact that Lou chimed in is proof of it. The only time Lou defends anyone on here is when they are attacking instruction. You are quite transparent also Lou.

Lou, go ahead and ask Duckie to expand on his statements. He won't. He has even stated that he doesn't even read the posts after his when he starts a thread, (which I call B.S. on)

If Duckie really is out to help anyone on here, then, since you have filming capacities, go ahead and go here http://forums.azbilliards.com/group.php?groupid=26, take the test, and show us exactly what you are talking about. The fact that he gives no examples, just knocks instruction, is proof of what he is about. The same with you, Lou.

Unlike you, Neil, I have no mind reading capabilities. So I don't know what duckie's intent was. Ergo, I only commented because of the two attacks I saw shortly after his initial post.

Having said all that, if true, I do find it troubling that you say he says he doesn't follow up when he starts a thread. IMO, that's kind of like spraying graffiti on a wall and running away. I've always felt that if you start a thread the idea was to engender a discussion or conversation on the topic and that usually works better when the guy that starts the thread hangs around to follow up.

So... I will ask: duckie, care to expand/comment?

Lou Figueroa

 

[SpiderWebComm]

There are many of us who have made our beds, so to speak, on theses forums.

Which means that due to prior threads, posts, arguments, etc. it would be f*cking stupid to think that when Duckie makes a thread like this, or Lou puts on his nice girl dress and defends anyone, other people such as Spidey will jump in and introduce the pot to the kettle.

Just stop with the bullsh*t already, Duckie thinks he knows the game well enough to put these sorts of ridiculous threads out there, Lou has to defend one of the anti-aiming guys, and Spidey has to rip the anti-aiming guy for any sort of instructional posts. Just par for the course so far.

EDIT: ah, forgot about Neil also ripping the anti-aiming crew, inspirational!

Close, but not quite. I rip people who knock instructors. Duckie isn't knocking aiming, he's knocking instruction in general if you read his post.

You always see me chime in because I never let it fly unchallenged. As long as they talk stupid, I'm piling-on. I guess you're right -- it is what it is. Stop trying to play forum cop and ignore these threads or for crying out loud--- jump on top of the heap!!:thumbup:

 

[lfigueroa]

There are many of us who have made our beds, so to speak, on theses forums.

Which means that due to prior threads, posts, arguments, etc. it would be f*cking stupid to think that when Duckie makes a thread like this, or Lou puts on his nice girl dress and defends anyone, other people such as Spidey will jump in and introduce the pot to the kettle.

Just stop with the bullsh*t already, Duckie thinks he knows the game well enough to put these sorts of ridiculous threads out there, Lou has to defend one of the anti-aiming guys, and Spidey has to rip the anti-aiming guy for any sort of instructional posts. Just par for the course so far.

EDIT: ah, forgot about Neil also ripping the anti-aiming crew, inspirational!

lol. I'm not defending anyone on the basis of their position on instructors or aiming or jellyfish. Too many people here see waaaaaay too monsters under their AZ bed ;-)

Lou Figueroa

 

[PGHteacher]

There have been several threads that have the tone of one size fits all when it comes to pool shooting.

Really please do tell where when?

Not every shot will allow you to be in the perfect shooting position that is shown in some thread. For example, the high elbow and the pics of the low stance. That is just one shooting position that will be encountered in shooting pool. Have the CB 1/4 inch from the rail and the shot you need to do requires draw. You got to jack up and shoot downward which can not be done with the low stance.

How long did it take you to figure this out?
:rotflmao1:

There are some shots that a require different length of pauses and not the same amount of pause on all shots.

Explain the why’s and how’s of this please.
:scratchhead:

The idea that instructors teach what is easiest and not what best or the student is the best example of one size fits all.

Some take the “easy” road and some don’t that is the nature of people regardless of vocation, gender, economic group etc…
:idea2:

What is normally shown are ideal shooting situation and simple cuts shots as proof something works and is the way to do it..

Where would you start? Think about it.

:shrug:

In the real world, not every shot is gonna be in the ideal shooting situation

Show me just 1 person that said otherwise.

and it is these situations that separate the players from the wanna be's.

You are correct this is often true; back in my “early days” of teaching I had an entire section of my course devoted to non-standard shots. I used to call it “when sh__ gets fu____ up”.

I don’t know if you are down on instructors or instruction. Tell me; are you an instructor? If you have a better way to do it by all means share it with all. Have you taken a non-player and turned him/her into a player? If you have tell us how; if you haven’t well I think you know what I would have to say to you, but please do answer the question.
:indecisive:

 

[Neil]

.................

 

[sfleinen]

I think the issue here is the OP's past posting history is "marking" him for future posts or threads. Duckie has a history of knocking instructors, either going toe-to-toe with them, or else snidely knocking them from the sidelines with "generalizations" that he thinks will be non-confrontational and "inspirational," but actually are and aren't, respectively.

Obviously, everyone is entitled to share his/her opinion on a public forum -- that is what it's for, afterall. However, opinions are often tainted with mischaracterizations of them being "fact." His points about the need to jack up on shots that require this technique, but attempting to say that instructors would advocate a level cue, proper stance, etc. is a good example -- he's using the "all or nothing" approach, which is not something any instructor ever says.

Someone who is a self-admitted skill level "5" should not come onto a public forum with authoritative denouncements of people who obviously have much greater experience than him, or his experience (or lack of) couched as being "matter-of-fact." Most folks know this -- hence the terms "IMHO" ("in my humble opinion"), "I think...," "it seems/appears to me...," "I'm not sure if I agree with this, but what do I know," etc. I've yet to see duckie use those terms. Instead, he takes an authoritative position as if he himself is some kind of instructor, or that we, the readership, should somehow take heed in his "direction" without paying any attention to the underlying experience (lack of) behind it.

Don't get me wrong -- duckie writes well, and I can see he has the ability to convey thoughts quite lucidly. But he gets lost at the intersection where experience, authority, and reality meet.

-Sean

 

[sheffield6]

what really annoys me is those one size fits all socks, they dont fit.
may as well contribute to the nonsense.