A praise for my APA League Operators!!!

[Maniac]

We get so many negative threads here where the APA is concerned, and I myself have posted in the past of bad experiences, so I wanted to post a positive thread and what better way to do it than to give kudos to a fine husband/wife team of League Operators, Les and Francee Moore of APA of Tarrant County (Texas).

After playing APA leagues for 6 years in a different area, I was so disgusted with it that I was ready to quit leagues altogether and just shoot in weekly, local tournaments. From time-to-time I would hear talk of the Tarrant County leagues and the good job the LO's did over there. About a year ago, I decided to give it a try. I can honestly say that in the past year (or about 2 1/2 sessions), I have not had ONE single issue come up as far as the way the league is run. I will not get into details of what was wrong in my other area. I just want to mention that whatever issues I had (I captained an 8 and 9-ball team there), they are non-existant in my new league area. It is well run, and Les and Francee are doing an excellent job. I am now back to having fun in leagues again and actually look forward to my nights out with new friends and honest competition.

Thank you Les and Francee!!! The APA needs more like y'all.

Maniac (still sucks at pool nonetheless )

 

[OneIron]

Good post. If I could find an APA League with a good LO within reasonable driving distance, I would probably sign back up.

 

[justadub]

Good stuff.

I'll play along. John and Pauline Ostro run APA here in Maine, and do a fine job. I'm'be. said it before, and I will again here now....I may not always agree with everything, but I understand and appreciate how well things are run.

Thanks for posting, Maniac.

 

[JuicyGirl]

Good one! I've chatted with the local league and all I've ever heard is good stuff.
:thumbup:

 

[CreeDo]

Good stuff.

I'll play along. John and Pauline Ostro run APA here in Maine, and do a fine job. I'm'be. said it before, and I will again here now....I may not always agree with everything, but I understand and appreciate how well things are run.

Thanks for posting, Maniac.

Tell John I said hi. He won't remember me, but he tried to start a league in brunswick that only lasted a season. I was the 7 that cried nonstop when I lost to a 3, because of an unfortunate early 8 ball (or two). I'll laugh if he does actually remember... tell him I finally got over it and figured things out

 

[JDB]

We get so many negative threads here where the APA is concerned, and I myself have posted in the past of bad experiences, so I wanted to post a positive thread and what better way to do it than to give kudos to a fine husband/wife team of League Operators, Les and Francee Moore of APA of Tarrant County (Texas).

After playing APA leagues for 6 years in a different area, I was so disgusted with it that I was ready to quit leagues altogether and just shoot in weekly, local tournaments. From time-to-time I would hear talk of the Tarrant County leagues and the good job the LO's did over there. About a year ago, I decided to give it a try. I can honestly say that in the past year (or about 2 1/2 sessions), I have not had ONE single issue come up as far as the way the league is run. I will not get into details of what was wrong in my other area. I just want to mention that whatever issues I had (I captained an 8 and 9-ball team there), they are non-existant in my new league area. It is well run, and Les and Francee are doing an excellent job. I am now back to having fun in leagues again and actually look forward to my nights out with new friends and honest competition.

Thank you Les and Francee!!! The APA needs more like y'all.

Maniac (still sucks at pool nonetheless )

Les seems like a good guy; I see him at the National Amateur Tournament every year and he is a very good player, as well.

I think that makes a difference in APA Operators. Since Les is a good player, himself, he cares much more about it on a personal level. JMO.

 

[DelaWho???]

New operator here in Delaware. He's introduced Masters Division, Top Gun, and changes to the league schedule and playoff structure.

Mark Goki is off to a good start, and seems to want to improve on what he took over from Melvin Craig who was a mediocre operator lacking in people skills....

 

[OnePocketChamp]

Maniac,
Thank you for the kind words concerning our APA league both Francee and I work very hard to try to make it a good experience for our players. I tell players all the time that all I have to offer you is my personal integrity and good customer service. We try our best every day to make this happen.

Thanks again for being a member of our family, the APA of Tarrant County.

Les

 

[Goldy]

We get so many negative threads here where the APA is concerned, and I myself have posted in the past of bad experiences, so I wanted to post a positive thread and what better way to do it than to give kudos to a fine husband/wife team of League Operators, Les and Francee Moore of APA of Tarrant County (Texas).

After playing APA leagues for 6 years in a different area, I was so disgusted with it that I was ready to quit leagues altogether and just shoot in weekly, local tournaments. From time-to-time I would hear talk of the Tarrant County leagues and the good job the LO's did over there. About a year ago, I decided to give it a try. I can honestly say that in the past year (or about 2 1/2 sessions), I have not had ONE single issue come up as far as the way the league is run. I will not get into details of what was wrong in my other area. I just want to mention that whatever issues I had (I captained an 8 and 9-ball team there), they are non-existant in my new league area. It is well run, and Les and Francee are doing an excellent job. I am now back to having fun in leagues again and actually look forward to my nights out with new friends and honest competition.

Thank you Les and Francee!!! The APA needs more like y'all.

Maniac (still sucks at pool nonetheless )

Sorry to rain down on your parade.

So I'm going to assume that Les & Francee just refrain from manually moving skill levels? Is that what makes that territory so much better?

You and I both know when at Vegas just about every player magically comes alive and magically shoots 2 skill levels better.

In my opinion, if the APA sticks to their guns and continually praises their handicap system, I'm afraid in the next 5 years they will be eating it.

APA is 30+ years old. Time for something new. Time for something more affordable. It's time to start playing real pool, and not score sheet pool.

Start or Join a NAPA league in your area. You'll experience real pool, with a real score sheet.

Zach.

 

[Maniac]

Sorry to rain down on your parade.

So I'm going to assume that Les & Francee just refrain from manually moving skill levels? Is that what makes that territory so much better?

You and I both know when at Vegas just about every player magically comes alive and magically shoots 2 skill levels better.

In my opinion, if the APA sticks to their guns and continually praises their handicap system, I'm afraid in the next 5 years they will be eating it.

APA is 30+ years old. Time for something new. Time for something more affordable. It's time to start playing real pool, and not score sheet pool.

Start or Join a NAPA league in your area. You'll experience real pool, with a real score sheet.

Zach.

Zach,

Thanks for using my thread to get in some free advertising for the pool league of your choice . After playing in multiple leagues (8-ball, 9-ball, Masters) for seven consecutive years without a break in two different league areas, I feel as though I've got a pretty good grip on what is right and what is wrong in the APA. As I said, I no longer have issues. FWIW, to a man (or woman), all that I have talked to in Tarrant County APA leagues, all are satisfied with the LO's and I simply do not hear the grumblings that I heard in the other area I played out of. I'm sure that Les and Francee have probably had to manually move a players skill level on occasion, but I bet it was done for the right reason and NOT because of personal bias, and not without them knowing the players ability on a personal level. As far as Vegas, I know nothing about Vegas. Never been, never care if I ever go (unless it's a team trip and I wouldn't disappoint my team by not going). A trip to Vegas is not my goal for playing in the APA. I'm strictly in it for fun, and Les and Francee provide a league area that is fun to play in. If I'm still alive in 5 years and I still have a memory left , I'm going to look you up and we'll see and comment on whether or not the APA will be "eating" anything. As far as your "score sheet pool" comment goes, I have played BCAPL non-handicapped pool in my life too, so I know apples from oranges when I see them. This ain't my first rodeo, son.

FTR, you didn't "rain down on my parade", you simply gave me another opportunity to sing praises for an APA league that is both fun and well run.

Tony

 

[RobMan]

^^^^^^^. Very nice post. Way to take the high road after someone comes in a very positive thread to try and derail it. Well done Maniac. :thumbup:

 

[justadub]

Sorry to rain down on your parade.

So I'm going to assume that Les & Francee just refrain from manually moving skill levels? Is that what makes that territory so much better?

You and I both know when at Vegas just about every player magically comes alive and magically shoots 2 skill levels better.

In my opinion, if the APA sticks to their guns and continually praises their handicap system, I'm afraid in the next 5 years they will be eating it.

APA is 30+ years old. Time for something new. Time for something more affordable. It's time to start playing real pool, and not score sheet pool.

Start or Join a NAPA league in your area. You'll experience real pool, with a real score sheet.

Zach.

Congrats.... You are the first recepient of red rep I've ever given out.

Extremely bad form. Talk about your own stuff somewhere else.

 

[brandoncook26]

Sorry to rain down on your parade.

So I'm going to assume that Les & Francee just refrain from manually moving skill levels? Is that what makes that territory so much better?

You and I both know when at Vegas just about every player magically comes alive and magically shoots 2 skill levels better.

In my opinion, if the APA sticks to their guns and continually praises their handicap system, I'm afraid in the next 5 years they will be eating it.

APA is 30+ years old. Time for something new. Time for something more affordable. It's time to start playing real pool, and not score sheet pool.

Start or Join a NAPA league in your area. You'll experience real pool, with a real score sheet.

Zach.

Is everything you post an advertisement for something you're involved in? Why come on a thread with a great positive message and contribute dribble?

I'm glad you are back to enjoying pool Maniac. At the end of the day, most are not professional players, so your end goal should be to enjoy playing the game since your livelihood isn't tied to it. Not all leagues are a horrible place to play. I have no league affiliation, but have played in a few of them, including the APA, and I enjoyed all of them because I play my hardest and have fun. That's all you can do.

 

[Goldy]

Zach,

Thanks for using my thread to get in some free advertising for the pool league of your choice . After playing in multiple leagues (8-ball, 9-ball, Masters) for seven consecutive years without a break in two different league areas, I feel as though I've got a pretty good grip on what is right and what is wrong in the APA. As I said, I no longer have issues. FWIW, to a man (or woman), all that I have talked to in Tarrant County APA leagues, all are satisfied with the LO's and I simply do not hear the grumblings that I heard in the other area I played out of. I'm sure that Les and Francee have probably had to manually move a players skill level on occasion, but I bet it was done for the right reason and NOT because of personal bias, and not without them knowing the players ability on a personal level. As far as Vegas, I know nothing about Vegas. Never been, never care if I ever go (unless it's a team trip and I wouldn't disappoint my team by not going). A trip to Vegas is not my goal for playing in the APA. I'm strictly in it for fun, and Les and Francee provide a league area that is fun to play in. If I'm still alive in 5 years and I still have a memory left , I'm going to look you up and we'll see and comment on whether or not the APA will be "eating" anything. As far as your "score sheet pool" comment goes, I have played BCAPL non-handicapped pool in my life too, so I know apples from oranges when I see them. This ain't my first rodeo, son.

FTR, you didn't "rain down on my parade", you simply gave me another opportunity to sing praises for an APA league that is both fun and well run.

Tony

Great reply!

I played APA for 15 years. It is a tremendous challenge in every aspect, many of them unrelated to the sport. Billiards is profoundly challenging by itself. The APA made a mockery of that, fueling a vicious cycle of redundant attributes that hinders the vast majority of it's players to become better at the game, especially new recruits with no previous experience. Should we save the reference of "keeping your team together" attributes for another post?

I know experiences are vastly different from territory to territory. I have had many conversations with team captains from other territories while out in Vegas. Those conversations really brought into focus to which operators are greedy, which operators are not greedy, which operators are resilient, and which operators are dirty douche bags.

The key focus on the sport of billiards has been lost. Hence the reasoning why we cannot support the professionals of the game. Last time I checked, fecal matter rolls downhill.

Billiards will become rejuvenated when the larger focus is about the players and not the business. Was 80/20 for a long time. Now it's 50/50. And it shows.

Zach.

 

[Goldy]

Congrats.... You are the first recepient of red rep I've ever given out.

Extremely bad form. Talk about your own stuff somewhere else.

Sorry to hear your frustration with my "bad form". It's just a form, and nothing personal. I guess the time you invest here makes every post personal for you.

Zach.

 

[justadub]

Sorry to hear your frustration with my "bad form". It's just a form, and nothing personal. I guess the time you invest here makes every post personal for you.

Zach.

Nope. Very few posts are personal for me, certainly not this grouping.

What I don't like is when someone comes on here, makes a thread praising those responsible for his positive experience, and someone comes along to use that thread as excuse to spew negativity. Especially when YOU have no experience with Maniacs LO. Or the fact that you are using this as an excuse to promote your own league.

That is the example of bad form I am referring to. It is rude and inconsiderate.

You will note that I have never got into a debate with you on this subject, no matter how many times you have bashed the APA here. I expect it, and in many cases it has merit. (Though probably not as often as many here insist.) Those posts have been in threads where that viewpoint was appropriate. This thread is not an appropriate place for it, and to be honest, you've shown your behind to use this as an opportunity to promote your own league.

It speaks volumes about your character.

 

[Banks]

Great reply!

I played APA for 15 years. It is a tremendous challenge in every aspect, many of them unrelated to the sport. Billiards is profoundly challenging by itself. The APA made a mockery of that, fueling a vicious cycle of redundant attributes that hinders the vast majority of it's players to become better at the game, especially new recruits with no previous experience. Should we save the reference of "keeping your team together" attributes for another post?

I know experiences are vastly different from territory to territory. I have had many conversations with team captains from other territories while out in Vegas. Those conversations really brought into focus to which operators are greedy, which operators are not greedy, which operators are resilient, and which operators are dirty douche bags.

The key focus on the sport of billiards has been lost. Hence the reasoning why we cannot support the professionals of the game. Last time I checked, fecal matter rolls downhill.

Billiards will become rejuvenated when the larger focus is about the players and not the business. Was 80/20 for a long time. Now it's 50/50. And it shows.

Zach.

A successful business model that is about pool, and here you are trying to insult it.

We just had our 'cities'/tri-cup tournaments the past couple of weekends. You know what I saw? A whole big bunch of people that enjoy playing. They work, they have families, they don't plan on putting in 40 hours a week to be an A player or anything near to that. People assume that if you play pool, that you have to be excellent or you're wasting your time and insulting the game.

I have a friend that loves to play soccer. He's in pretty good shape for being 40, but he obviously isn't going to be turning pro. He plays on a local A-league team, so he's doing alright. If some of the backwards logic used to disparage pool leagues was applied to other things, most people wouldn't be doing anything.

As far as I'm concerned, my LO can be as greedy as they want. For my $7 or $14 each week, I'm satisfied that they provide a league that I can play in and have fun with a team. After putting in 40 hours at a desk each week, it's nice to get out and have somebody else take care of everything, including stats and history that I can check out online. I enjoy my hobby and I am perfectly alright putting out a little bit of money each week to be part of a league.

I'm an adult, and I'm perfectly capable of deciding that I don't want to play if I don't feel that I'm treated fairly or that my cost is not worth the benefit.

If you're lucky, your little league won't grow much. That way, you can continue to claim that there is no bias, that nobody is greedy and that it's all about the players. Eventually, with enough people, somebody will try to pull a fast one.. and that's when you get your first taste of your own foot. :thumbup:

 

[Goldy]

A successful business model that is about pool, and here you are trying to insult it.

I'll keep it short. We don't want to insult anyone with opinion.

We just had our 'cities'/tri-cup tournaments the past couple of weekends. You know what I saw? A whole big bunch of people that enjoy playing. They work, they have families, they don't plan on putting in 40 hours a week to be an A player or anything near to that. People assume that if you play pool, that you have to be excellent or you're wasting your time and insulting the game.

Did I say anything about why they are, or are not, having fun in playing pool? No.

I have a friend that loves to play soccer. He's in pretty good shape for being 40, but he obviously isn't going to be turning pro. He plays on a local A-league team, so he's doing alright. If some of the backwards logic used to disparage pool leagues was applied to other things, most people wouldn't be doing anything.

That's great! Did I mention anything about other sports in my reply? No.

As far as I'm concerned, my LO can be as greedy as they want. For my $7 or $14 each week, I'm satisfied that they provide a league that I can play in and have fun with a team. After putting in 40 hours at a desk each week, it's nice to get out and have somebody else take care of everything, including stats and history that I can check out online. I enjoy my hobby and I am perfectly alright putting out a little bit of money each week to be part of a league.

Really? Seriously? I think many people work 40 hours a week. Heck, I work 60 hours if not more a week. Sure, putting in a little extra money a week to support the league is great. So your little bit is okay with 50%? Wow.

I'm an adult, and I'm perfectly capable of deciding that I don't want to play if I don't feel that I'm treated fairly or that my cost is not worth the benefit.

Wow.. I cannot believe having an opinion about something brings out so much inferiority. It's baffling. I'm sorry if my opinion makes you feel like a child Sir.

If you're lucky, your little league won't grow much. That way, you can continue to claim that there is no bias, that nobody is greedy and that it's all about the players. Eventually, with enough people, somebody will try to pull a fast one.. and that's when you get your first taste of your own foot. :thumbup:

My league has passed the 'little league' part with much exhausting effort. Now you're insulting me, in which I did not in my reply. You're exactly right, many do try and pull a fast one. Guess what? I don't. If you want to check out how I operate my league before you make assumptions on how little it is, please visit http://www.napaohio.com. I've put 2 years of my life into it.

 

[Goldy]

Nope. Very few posts are personal for me, certainly not this grouping.

What I don't like is when someone comes on here, makes a thread praising those responsible for his positive experience, and someone comes along to use that thread as excuse to spew negativity. Especially when YOU have no experience with Maniacs LO. Or the fact that you are using this as an excuse to promote your own league.

That is the example of bad form I am referring to. It is rude and inconsiderate.

You will note that I have never got into a debate with you on this subject, no matter how many times you have bashed the APA here. I expect it, and in many cases it has merit. (Though probably not as often as many here insist.) Those posts have been in threads where that viewpoint was appropriate. This thread is not an appropriate place for it, and to be honest, you've shown your behind to use this as an opportunity to promote your own league.

It speaks volumes about your character.

Well first of all, if you want to chastise someones character based on opinion set forth in an online billiards form, that's easy. I'd hate to see how you chastise on a personal level, or face to face, because that is not easy.

Have a great day..

Zach.

 

[Banks]

Well I'll keep it short. We don't want to insult anyone with opinion.



Did I say anything about why they are, or are not, having fun in playing pool? No.



That's great! Did I mention anything about other sports in my reply? No.



Really? Seriously? I think many people work 40 hours a week. Heck, I work 60 hours if not more a week. Sure putting in a little extra money a week to support the league is great. So your little bit is okay with 50%? Wow.



Wow.. I cannot believe having an opinion about something brings out so much inferiority. It's baffling. I'm sorry if my opinion makes you feel like a child Sir.



My league has passed the 'little league' part with much exhausting effort. Now you're insulting me, in which I did not in my reply. Your exactly right, many do try and pull a fast one. Guess what? I don't. If you want to check out how I operate my league before you make assumptions on how little it is, please visit http://www.napaohio.com. I've put 2 years of my life into it.

Perhaps you have a hard time remembering what you wrote, so I'll forgive you for that. You insulted the league and insinuated that the members were suckers that liked being taken advantage of and couldn't or didn't play 'real pool'.

I'm fine with putting in what I do, which is $7 or $14 each week. You're fine with putting two years of your life into something that you're touting as being virtually free or close to it, in terms of administration costs. If you're comfortable with that, you should then be able to understand why some people are comfortable just paying out the money and playing their weekly game that's already run by a large national(semi-international) organization.

I'm not sorry that me having the opinion that the APA suits my recreational requirements offends anybody. I don't feel like a child at all. Like I said, I'm an adult and can make my own decisions. I'm sorry that you could not understand that.

Good luck on trying to insult more people into joining your league.