Pin Choice and Why???

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ActionDan22

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was just wondering what everyone thinks about the different pins/joints available. What do you use and why?? Do you think it effects playability? I have a radial pin and think it feels fine but may consider changing cues and the other has different pin. Need some help!

AD
 
The pin and joint have very very little to do with the feel or hit of a cue. Most of it (75%-ish) is in the tip, ferrule, and tennon. Another 20%-ish is in the shaft, leaving 5% for all of the following (joint, butt, rubber bumper, weight, weight distribution, materials, construction,...).

Given 2 cues with identical weights and identical weight balance using the same shaft, ferrule, tennon, and tip, I don't think 1 pro in a thousand could tell which joinery was in use.
 
MitchAlsup said:
The pin and joint have very very little to do with the feel or hit of a cue. Most of it (75%-ish) is in the tip, ferrule, and tennon. Another 20%-ish is in the shaft, leaving 5% for all of the following (joint, butt, rubber bumper, weight, weight distribution, materials, construction,...).

Given 2 cues with identical weights and identical weight balance using the same shaft, ferrule, tennon, and tip, I don't think 1 pro in a thousand could tell which joinery was in use.
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I agree with this.
 
I like the radial because it's quick and easy to change shafts, and the joint itself is strong and hard to cross thread. Other than that, what Mitch said.
 
This could be an interesting thread. There are people here that swear they can tell the differance in differant joints. Some even think they can tell the differance if their cue is a little dusty. I can not tell what joint is on a cue. For me it's all in the balance-shaft taper and tip.
 
measureman said:
This could be an interesting thread. There are people here that swear they can tell the differance in differant joints. Some even think they can tell the differance if their cue is a little dusty. I can not tell what joint is on a cue. For me it's all in the balance-shaft taper and tip.
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I can tell the difference..... most look completely different silly. :)


To the OP , this is why I like what I like...

I like radial pins:

I like how snug they feel screwing together, they seem to stay tightly screwed better and if they happen to back out at all I feel like hitting balls like that won't even hurt anything. (Obviously not recomended but has happened) I feel like constant use has no effect on the union. And I like the overall size of the pin for structure, available of a wide variety of materials and weights to preference. Also they are nice compromise between full quick release and full OMG how long is this screw.

And thier pretty.

I like wood to wood joints for simplity and what I believe is the best, most efficient transfer of energy and 'feel' thru the joint. They make repairs easy and adjustments, like face issues easy as well. Theres very little to go wrong either with use, being damaged or just over time.

And thier pretty.


And lastly I like Ivory collars. Cause its traditional, implies class and quality and well.... you guessed it...... they're pretty.


Most of this is IMO. I think you can only really feel a big difference between a good quality joint and a poorly done one. The rest is extremely subtle and would likely takes week or months of constant use to be able to feel or discern.
 
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while I may not be able to tell the difference between a 3/8x11 pin from a 3/8x10 pin, I can most definitely tell the difference between a big pin and a 5/16x14 or 18 pin. The difference is pretty significant and I don't see how some people can't tell the difference.
 
Danktrees said:
while I may not be able to tell the difference between a 3/8x11 pin from a 3/8x10 pin, I can most definitely tell the difference between a big pin and a 5/16x14 or 18 pin. The difference is pretty significant and I don't see how some people can't tell the difference.
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Well cause its been blind tested a number of times and to my knowledge, the results have always been pretty clear. There was a post IIRC at a pro event with Pros even.
 
RRfireblade said:
Well cause its been blind tested a number of times and to my knowledge, the results have always been pretty clear. There was a post IIRC at a pro event with Pros even.
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I totally agree with you Cedric.I can feel a huge difference between certain pin types and joint Material.If a joint is stainless steel and the other is wood to wood,there's a massive difference in hit and feel.Some people may not care,which is one thing but to say people can't tell is just silly.Personally I don't like Radial but
the 3x810 and 11 is pretty nice.The 5x16 14 joint and Uniloc I like the most but find with Uniloc that if the cue has dense wood on the forearm like Ebony,Cocobolo,Rosewood it plays really nice compared to softer woods like Birdseye or Curly Maple.
 
scsuxci said:
I totally agree with you Cedric.I can feel a huge difference between certain pin types and joint Material.If a joint is stainless steel and the other is wood to wood,there's a massive difference in hit and feel.Some people may not care,which is one thing but to say people can't tell is just silly.Personally I don't like Radial but
the 3x810 and 11 is pretty nice.The 5x16 14 joint and Uniloc I like the most but find with Uniloc that if the cue has dense wood on the forearm like Ebony,Cocobolo,Rosewood it plays really nice compared to softer woods like Birdseye or Curly Maple.
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Many think they can. Yet to see anyone prove it on the spot. ;)
 
There Is a Huge Difference in Pin/Joint Types

Without a doubt....no question whatsoever......there is absolutely, unequivocally a difference in pin & joint types........the greatest names in cue-making knew the difference.....they didn't just use stainless steel vs ivory joints for cue esthetics........IMO..........the best pin is the 3/8x10 and the best joint is the flat faced ivory joint......combine the two and you'll enjoy the highest level of cue joint nirvana attainable............IMO.

Matt B.
 
Radial. Because that's what David Jacoby did, and, I love it.
Purchased the undersized tap from Atlas and making extra shafts for the cue is a snap. Well, snap and a half.
 
scsuxci said:
I totally agree with you Cedric.I can feel a huge difference between certain pin types and joint Material.If a joint is stainless steel and the other is wood to wood,there's a massive difference in hit and feel.Some people may not care,which is one thing but to say people can't tell is just silly.Personally I don't like Radial but
the 3x810 and 11 is pretty nice.The 5x16 14 joint and Uniloc I like the most but find with Uniloc that if the cue has dense wood on the forearm like Ebony,Cocobolo,Rosewood it plays really nice compared to softer woods like Birdseye or Curly Maple.
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I have a Cocobolo Lucasi with a Uniloc joint and it plays just great.
 
RRfireblade said:
Well cause its been blind tested a number of times and to my knowledge, the results have always been pretty clear. There was a post IIRC at a pro event with Pros even.
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Were they asking them if they could feel a difference? or were they asking them to identify which cue had which joint? In my mind, those are two very different questions. To identify the type of joint in a blind test would be very difficult. To pick the one you liked the feel of the best would possibly be somewhat easier.
 
What hasnt been mentioned in this thread and is very important That's the weight of the pin and how that effects the balance of the cue and also how the pin is between the 2 nodal points of the cue and that weight can effect the harmonics of the cue yielding a very different feel in the cue. So the pin can play a BIG part in how a cue hits, dont discount 1 ounce on the 50 yard line of your cue too much before you do your home work. Just had a very long talk with Searing about this and many talks with Tony Schinilla about this specific topic and they both are known to build very good hitting cues. Please dont shoot the messenger. But yes the pin can make a big difference-mostly due to weight, to a lesser extent position and the least important reason of the 3 is the thread type. So there are 3 reasons pin's are a little more than 5% of the cue's performance.


respectfully
eric:smile:
 
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pin choice

ss vs wood to wood I can hear the difference . or 5/16 pin brass insert
I shoot with 3/8 pin . but i havent played with a cog 7/16 or a wooden pin.

Best of luck and if you lived in my area i would let you try out a few of my cues so you can make up your own mind.

Radial. from what I understand Radial is hard on the threads, maybe some one else can chime in on that topic because i dont know it for a fact,
its more of I heard it through the grape vine thing.
http://www.wat.tv/video/creedence-i-heard-it-through-1pg6j_2fl23_.html :dance:


MMike
 
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balabushka 5/16-14 pin piloted steel joint
scruggs radial pin flat faced joint
here are 2 examples of respected cuemakers whose cues are known for playability
2 completely different joint pin combinations
i think a talented cuemaker perfects the nuances of using the joint type and pin that they subjectively feel is "best"
if there was one best every cue would have the same joint pin and joint type
dan janes told me personally he did a "blind" test with pros of ivory and steel jointed cues with the joints covered up and they couldnt pick one from the other correctly even though they beleived they could before the test
if you are someone who beleives they can tell the difference then find out what you like and stick with it
as mentioned before there are many factors that determine how a cue plays and feels
proof of this is pick a joint and pin combo and play with different makers cues using that combination
i would bet they all will feel different
jmho
icbw
 
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