tone and density in wood

[sluggerknuckles]

Can a cuemaker determine that a cue will have high tone, density and feedback when picking the stock wood before they make a cue.

My reason for asking is because last year I contacted Martin at Superior Cues and he hand picked out a black from John Davis with high tone and density and explained to me that these qualities are needed to have the potential to make a superior hitting cue (as long as it is finished in the hands of a competent cue maker).

I had so much fun with the process that I would like to try it again but this time have a custom cue builder build one from his own stock. Unfortunately, I live in an area that is kind of pool deprived. There are 2 pool halls that are dying and people who shoot there use meuccis, vikings, and schons so it is hard to hit with other types of cue makers cues.

My choosing of a cuemaker is coming from research I have done here on AZ. My choices currently are cliff manning, cory barnhart, esoteric cues, eric crisp if he starts taking orders again (or finally answers his emails) and steve lomax if I save extra money.

I know I can not go wrong with any of these cue makers but since my experience is limited, I am trying to educate myself as much as possible to get the best playing cue I can..

Thank you in advance for your opinions.

 

[whammo57]

Remember when you were a kid and played baseball???

To check if a bat was cracked, we always held the big end and hit the handle on the ground at a angle. If it was cracked, it buzzed, if not just a nice vibration..

Tone wood, mostly what cues are made of, will sing if you bounce it on the end. The higher pitch means it usually is a denser wood.

I do it to a glued up cue before I do final turning....... they always sing. I take that as a sign that everything is tight..........

Kim

 

[GBCues]

Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3JhauyBQ8Y

It's from a luthier's point of view, but you should get the idea.

HTH

Gary

 

[scdiveteam]

Hey Kim,

I did not know you grew an beard and started making guitars!.....

Rick

 

[whammo57]

Hey Kim,

I did not know you grew an beard and started making guitars!.....

Rick

Me neither...........

LOL

Kim

 

[bbb]

Can a cuemaker determine that a cue will have high tone, density and feedback when picking the stock wood before they make a cue.

My reason for asking is because last year I contacted Martin at Superior Cues and he hand picked out a black from John Davis with high tone and density and explained to me that these qualities are needed to have the potential to make a superior hitting cue (as long as it is finished in the hands of a competent cue maker).

I had so much fun with the process that I would like to try it again but this time have a custom cue builder build one from his own stock. Unfortunately, I live in an area that is kind of pool deprived. There are 2 pool halls that are dying and people who shoot there use meuccis, vikings, and schons so it is hard to hit with other types of cue makers cues.

My choosing of a cuemaker is coming from research I have done here on AZ. My choices currently are cliff manning, cory barnhart, esoteric cues, eric crisp if he starts taking orders again (or finally answers his emails) and steve lomax if I save extra money.

I know I can not go wrong with any of these cue makers but since my experience is limited, I am trying to educate myself as much as possible to get the best playing cue I can..

Thank you in advance for your opinions.

unless you plan to use your cue in a band
id stick to cuemakers that have a rep for great players
and not worry what they sound like
icbw

 

[whammo57]

unless you plan to use your cue in a band
id stick to cuemakers that have a rep for great players
and not worry what they sound like
icbw

I agree but, there are those that actually pick shafts by the tone it makes when you bounce it..........

Actually all good dense wood will have some kind of tone to when you bounce it...........

Kim

 

[bbb]

i understand that wood knowledgeable people can use tone or wood characteristics to pick what wood to use with each cue to make a great playing cue
ive read the posts about "nodal characteristics" of wood resonance and how some cuemakers use that to make their cue
and i beleive in harmony and the power of sound as in the word om or certain mantras
but i leave that to the experts
im just a player and all i go by is how does it feel to me when i hit the ball.......

 

[Lexicologist71]

This 'superior hitting' bs all sounds great for marketing, but what does it really mean? As soon as I hear someone who says "better", I stop listening because typically, they are talking about something that is purely subjective to personal tastes. Tell all those Meucci fans their cues 'hit' like shit. They love them. Personally, I love my Schuler. Some think they 'hit' like shit. I have a 3lb. hammer that will make anything look like hammered shit, and it has such a purity to its hit. See where I'm going. Maybe your guy makes a rock solid cue, but don't buy a cue because it has a 'better hit' because 'better' means something different to everybody. Now, if you want to say auto clearcoat is better than Ceramithane for finishing a cue, THAT is an argument that has a logical beginning.

 

[whammo57]

This 'superior hitting' bs all sounds great for marketing, but what does it really mean? As soon as I hear someone who says "better", I stop listening because typically, they are talking about something that is purely subjective to personal tastes. Tell all those Meucci fans their cues 'hit' like shit. They love them. Personally, I love my Schuler. Some think they 'hit' like shit. I have a 3lb. hammer that will make anything look like hammered shit, and it has such a purity to its hit. See where I'm going. Maybe your guy makes a rock solid cue, but don't buy a cue because it has a 'better hit' because 'better' means something different to everybody. Now, if you want to say auto clearcoat is better than Ceramithane for finishing a cue, THAT is an argument that has a logical beginning.

ha ha ha ...................

you broke your own rule

LOL

Kim

 

[Joe Barringer]

Comment A: "hand picked out a black from John Davis with high tone and density and explained to me that these qualities are needed to have the potential to make a superior hitting cue (as long as it is finished in the hands of a competent cue maker)."

Comment B: "unless you plan to use your cue in a band
id stick to cuemakers that have a rep for great players
and not worry what they sound like"

Comment C: "I agree but, there are those that actually pick shafts by the tone it makes when you bounce it"

Comment D: "This 'superior hitting' bs all sounds great for marketing, but what does it really mean?"

This is always a humorous topic in my mind as I know what's really going on and can't really expound on it.

Comment A: So John Davis makes blanks that do not have high tone and density? And without these qualities, you will not have a superior hitting Davis blank? Well, I have a question, who is buying the blanks that you don't pick that do not have high tone and density because they obviously won't make superior hitting cues (based on your statement). You mean there are people out there buying inferior Davis blanks? Who are these people as I'm sure they would want to know that you bought all the great tone and high density blanks and left them with the less than stellar blanks. That's what you're telling us?

Comment B: Excellent!

Comment C: BS! I'll say it again BS! They may pick their shafts by bouncing but that's all they're doing is bouncing shafts. I offered a wager to anyone that I would put up $30K to anyone's $10K that they couldn't pick the same 100 shafts twice based on sound. There wouldn't or couldn't be 100% accuracy. In fact, there isn't even 75% accuracy. How about this - there isn't even 50% accuracy! Gee, do you think I may know what I'm talking about from experience? The wager is ridiculous as it cannot be done. The tone a shaft makes from shaft to shaft based on how it's bounced from a different height each and every time landing on a diffferent spot on each blank added to the inconsistencies of the human ear and the hearing ability or lack of hearing in any cue builder makes picking shafts in this manner an exercise in futility. Once I pick shaft for straightness of grain, I can pick them blindfolded just by feel and I'm not only talking about weight.

Comment D: Bingo! It means nothing.

Each cue should resonate like a tuning fork and have a certain tone when bounced off the forearm so as to insure no buzz.

 

[scdiveteam]

Joe,

I agree with you.

It seems to me that Spain, John Davis, DPK, Martin, George, Gus and Rambow never strayed too from far maple with straight grains fore forearms.

There are many who like to play with combos and look for ring tones and thats ok there are people who like that stuff.

Don't get me wrong I love Ebony, Cocobolo and others but for me, give me the old time religion.

Rick

 

[Lexicologist71]

ha ha ha ...................

you broke your own rule

LOL

Kim

Eh, not really. The vast majority of people want a hard, dent resistant, extremely shiny finish on their cue. Auto clear coat (which unfortunately I don't use yet) is superior to Ceramithane in all three categories, which means it actually is a better finish when graded by industry standards. I tried Ceramithane. Even after 6 weeks of sitting you could still make an obvious dent with your thumb nail without trying particularly hard.

 

[Russell Cues]

Joe,

I agree with you.

It seems to me that Spain, John Davis, DPK, Martin, George, Gus and Rambow never strayed too from maple with straight grains fore forearms.

There are many who like to play with combos and look for ring tones and thats ok there are people who like that stuff.

Don't get me wrong I love Ebony, Cocobolo and others but for me, give me the old time religion.

Rick

Funny you should say that Rick, I'm building a Cue with a straight grain maple forearm. And its one of Joe's "handles " very tight grain and clean. I like the old school look and feel. And yes I cored it, its how I do things, to each his own.

 

[scdiveteam]

Funny you should say that Rick, I'm building a Cue with a straight grain maple forearm. And its one of Joe's "handles " very tight grain and clean. I like the old school look and feel. And yes I cored it, its how I do things, to each his own.

Hey Tony,

You know that bad boy old school cue will hit solid. Can't mess up will that wood selection for sure.

While a lot of high figure cues are very cool looking indeed, there is a reason the old masters stayed with a limited amount of species they used.

Post the cue when it is done! I would love to see it.

Rick

 

[whammo57]

Eh, not really. The vast majority of people want a hard, dent resistant, extremely shiny finish on their cue. Auto clear coat (which unfortunately I don't use yet) is superior to Ceramithane in all three categories, which means it actually is a better finish when graded by industry standards. I tried Ceramithane. Even after 6 weeks of sitting you could still make an obvious dent with your thumb nail without trying particularly hard.

I use Ceramithane exclusively ............. My ceramithane finish is as hard as a rock and just as shiny as any other finish.

If you want I will send you a sample piece with Ceramithane on it.



Kim

 

[whammo57]

This is always a humorous topic in my mind as I know what's really going on and can't really expound on it.

Comment A: So John Davis makes blanks that do not have high tone and density? And without these qualities, you will not have a superior hitting Davis blank? Well, I have a question, who is buying the blanks that you don't pick that do not have high tone and density because they obviously won't make superior hitting cues (based on your statement). You mean there are people out there buying inferior Davis blanks? Who are these people as I'm sure they would want to know that you bought all the great tone and high density blanks and left them with the less than stellar blanks. That's what you're telling us?

Comment B: Excellent!

Comment C: BS! I'll say it again BS! They may pick their shafts by bouncing but that's all they're doing is bouncing shafts. I offered a wager to anyone that I would put up $30K to anyone's $10K that they couldn't pick the same 100 shafts twice based on sound. There wouldn't or couldn't be 100% accuracy. In fact, there isn't even 75% accuracy. How about this - there isn't even 50% accuracy! Gee, do you think I may know what I'm talking about from experience? The wager is ridiculous as it cannot be done. The tone a shaft makes from shaft to shaft based on how it's bounced from a different height each and every time landing on a diffferent spot on each blank added to the inconsistencies of the human ear and the hearing ability or lack of hearing in any cue builder makes picking shafts in this manner an exercise in futility. Once I pick shaft for straightness of grain, I can pick them blindfolded just by feel and I'm not only talking about weight.

Comment D: Bingo! It means nothing.

Each cue should resonate like a tuning fork and have a certain tone when bounced off the forearm so as to insure no buzz.

Joe,

I don't think bouncing shafts is an exact science or it is a way to pick the better ones. At best it will tell you if the wood is not cracked or just dead.

I remember somewhere that you said a customer at your place bounced shaft wood and listened for middle C or some exact tone.

I tried bouncing mine and some sound a little higher or lower tone but they all made nice playable shafts....

Kik

 

[Joe Barringer]

Joe,

I don't think bouncing shafts is an exact science or it is a way to pick the better ones. At best it will tell you if the wood is not cracked or just dead.

I remember somewhere that you said a customer at your place bounced shaft wood and listened for middle C or some exact tone.

I tried bouncing mine and some sound a little higher or lower tone but they all made nice playable shafts....

Kik

The wood IS dead, very dead. Remember it's from a dead tree. Shaft wood will never be cracked and I don't believe anyone is checking for cracks. When I said 'the cue maker was listening for a middle C', it was tongue-in-cheek, AKA sarcastic, AKA a joke.

And, most shafts bought from reputable sources will play nicely.

This modern day shaft bouncing and tonal qualities started in the land of fruits and nuts, California. And if the shoe fits, wear it!

I'm out of here as it's Friday so I want to wish all of you a wonderful weekend.

 

[whammo57]

Eh, not really. The vast majority of people want a hard, dent resistant, extremely shiny finish on their cue. Auto clear coat (which unfortunately I don't use yet) is superior to Ceramithane in all three categories, which means it actually is a better finish when graded by industry standards. I tried Ceramithane. Even after 6 weeks of sitting you could still make an obvious dent with your thumb nail without trying particularly hard.

If you look at my avatar, it may be funny but that's who I am .......... no bullshit..........

I'll tell you what........ I will drive up to TN and bring you a cue I have made with ceramithane on it............ You buy lunch........

What say???

Kim

 

[Lexicologist71]

If you look at my avatar, it may be funny but that's who I am .......... no bullshit..........

I'll tell you what........ I will drive up to TN and bring you a cue I have made with ceramithane on it............ You buy lunch........

What say???

Kim

Sorry to step on your toes. Maybe I got a lousy batch or something. I used it on half a dozen cues and it never set hard for me. After letting it cure for a month or so it was still soft in comparison to the epoxy finish I use. If you found a way to make it work for you, great. I quit at 6 cues.