Pretty sure I covered that in post #15...anyway I am done arguing about it. It is a personal preference and opinions vary.
Pros vs 8-ball on TAR
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Pretty sure I covered that in post #15...anyway I am done arguing about it. It is a personal preference and opinions vary.
Not exactly
Spimp13 said:
does not take into account the larger likelyhood of simply getting kicked to the back rail or to a side rail where your options and shots you have access to can diminish greatly and suddenly being handcuffed at shooting at only one set of balls can be almost impossible and put the breaker at a serious disadvantage.
You took the "bad luck" of getting the cueball kicked into a bad position and simply magnified the effects. That is why some of us are fighting this, we do NOT want more luck in the game dictating the outcome, there is more then enough already and we want to minimize the effects of bad luck, not put in rules that magnify them.
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I agree with this. There is more going on with the break with balls other than the cue ball that will dictate a BnR.
And how is it an indisputable fact? Other than your opinion or assumption, what proof or statistics do you have? Preferably statistics between two elite players.
Common sense? Logic?
If you have more options after the break that is an advantage. The breaker in a "open after the break" game has more options, thus that is an advantage. In a game with "take what you make" the breaker has less options. That benefits the non-breaker. If you need some statistics to actually comprehend that...
There is a difference between the following:
Take what you make is more advantageous to the sitting player than open after the break. (TRUE STATEMENT)
and...
Take what you make gives the advantage to the sitting player over the breaker. (FALSE STATEMENT IMO)
It was unclear which statement Supergreenman was making; however, the poster you responded to was assuming statement#2, I believe.
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Take what you make
-Breaker breaks balls sinks nothing incoming player advantage with open table
-Breaker breaks balls sinks solid with free shot on a solid breaker advantage
-Breaker breaks balls sinks solid has no free shot incoming player advantage WITH OPEN FRIGGIN TABLE
final score breaker 1 incoming player 2
take what you make gives the advantage to the sitting player. TRUE STATEMENT
Ok, I think there are some additional options:
1. Breaker makes a solid and stripe and has an open shot at solid. Advantage Breaker
2. Breaker makes a solid and a stripe has an open shot at stripe. Advantage Breaker.
3. Breaker makes a solid and a strip and has an open shot at either. Advantage Break.
I think we at 4 - 2 advantage for the Breaker now.
There are more scenarios that are favorable for the breaker than the person sitting. And I don't think you can say the possibility of each happening is equally weighted.
If you are breaking there is no way that the person sitting has the advantage. The odds of something favorable happening far outweight the unfavorable things.
Read above your post. He is saying the person sitting in the chair is the favorite.
The issue I have is that when you make a ball on the break and do not scratch you should be rewarded with options. A large part of 8-ball is the choice on which balls to shoot and planning your pattern out. Everyone who suggests there is more "strategy" in "take what you make", I disagree, I think there is more likelhood of being forced into agressive shots or safeties but I think it also handcuffs the players into not playing proper 8-ball strategy and patterns and runouts. It is good to actually see what balls a player decides to take and see how they plan on dealing with issues.
Take what you make turns 8-ball more into a rotation mentality as it limits the options of what you have to shoot for and instead dictates what you will be shooting at instead of letting the player figure out the best set to shoot at and the best way to win the game.
That is one thing I really hate about rotation pool and what I love about 8-ball. In rotation pool there are few choices and a player needs to largely shoot a patterned easily determined way. Announcers in a rotation match basically give you a roadmap of what the player will do before they even shoot because of the few options. In take what you make 8-ball you are limiting the options a player has and forcing them into a situation with fewer options. That sucks, that is not what 8-ball is about.
The things that make 8-ball great are the ways it is NOT anything like rotation pool. It gives the players alot of options on how they want to play each game.
Take what you make turns 8-ball more into a rotation mentality as it limits the options of what you have to shoot for and instead dictates what you will be shooting at instead of letting the player figure out the best set to shoot at and the best way to win the game.
That is one thing I really hate about rotation pool and what I love about 8-ball. In rotation pool there are few choices and a player needs to largely shoot a patterned easily determined way. Announcers in a rotation match basically give you a roadmap of what the player will do before they even shoot because of the few options. In take what you make 8-ball you are limiting the options a player has and forcing them into a situation with fewer options. That sucks, that is not what 8-ball is about.
The things that make 8-ball great are the ways it is NOT anything like rotation pool. It gives the players alot of options on how they want to play each game.
Thats not true prior to the break. The breaker still has the overall advantage.
The player sitting in the chair CAN become the favorite after a successful break where the breaker pocketed a ball and did not scratch though, simply by the way the balls come out to lie and the ball that the breaker made. That still sucks. Rotation pool brought in the push-out because it did not want the breaker to be put into a disadvantage after what was actually a successful and well executed break.
I completely agree with you on this.
I understand what you are saying and agree that with take what you make there is a chance that the breaker will be at a disadvantage by breaking.
I just don't agree, prior to the break, that the sitting player has the advantage.
I really think you have to assign odds to all of the applicable scenarios and if you did that, there is more of a chance of something happening favorable to the breaker than not even with take what you make.
However, I respect your opinion.
The dimensions are the same. The fatboy rails were no super secret special thing. The only difference is the rail set on now were cut at Diamond on factory machines instead of hand done. Now that the cloth is worn in the table is tighter now than it ever was with the fatboy rails with new cloth.
Ty, Justin. I knew they weren't classified, just that they were extended to tighten the pockets. I also was aware that the new TAR pockets were tight, I just didn't know they were the indeed the same pocket size.
Exactly what is that size?
4 1/8" at the corners. I forget what the sides are but they will break your heart if you sleep on them.
IMO the table is just a bit too tight for rotation games and almost perfect for one pocket. It does add a real factor of difficulty to the matches which I think will be interesting.