Solid joint install question.

snipershot

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
Silver Member
I've made a couple cues with what I would call a "solid" joint, meaning there is no wood going through the joint material. I've done one with juma and another with deer antler. On the juma, I bored a shallow pilot arounf .630 if I remember right and I did the same with the antler, but I made the antler joint taller. My question is, when you put on a solid joint, is the pilot needed? I made the pilot hole about .250 deep, so the joint would have more strength. The deer antler joint is the best I've done, and its my playing cue for the time being. The juma joint cue also turned out great and was my playing cue until I made the other one, lol. (See a pattern? Lol). Any input or tips are appreciated. Thanks!

Joe
 
I have no knowledge of your question, just looking at 3 empty bottles. . .hope the gun is full:grin:
 
snipershot said:
I've made a couple cues with what I would call a "solid" joint, meaning there is no wood going through the joint material. I've done one with juma and another with deer antler. On the juma, I bored a shallow pilot arounf .630 if I remember right and I did the same with the antler, but I made the antler joint taller. My question is, when you put on a solid joint, is the pilot needed? I made the pilot hole about .250 deep, so the joint would have more strength. The deer antler joint is the best I've done, and its my playing cue for the time being. The juma joint cue also turned out great and was my playing cue until I made the other one, lol. (See a pattern? Lol). Any input or tips are appreciated. Thanks!

Joe
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On my cues,The pilot aligns the 2 parts together and so the clearance is .02mm on diameter.The pilot is 2.5mm long and 9.5mm diameter. The recess is 9.52(3/8 inch) by 2.7 mm deep.I use a 5/16-18 thread that has 12mm of engagement.
 
You threaded a stemmed Juma and Stag down the forearm instead of having a tenon thru the Juma or stag ?
 
JoeyInCali said:
You threaded a stemmed Juma and Stag down the forearm instead of having a tenon thru the Juma or stag ?
Click to expand...

No, I didn't thread it. I just made a short tennon at .630 in diameter, and .250 long. Then I bored a a hole in the stag and juma .631 in diameter and .252 deep. I epoxied the joint on and 2 days later after it cured, I cut the joint flush, center drilled the pin hole, made a small pass on my makeshift tapering machine, then installed the pin. Points are close, and so far, it has held up. Its probably only played 50 racks of 9bal and 15 racks of one pocket though.

Joe
 
While typing my last post, I had an idea. What if I cut the tennon on the cue, drilled and tapped the pin hole and put the pin in. Then, cut the pilot on the stag, and drilled and tapped it. Then, apply the epoxy to the tennon, then screw the stag down nice and snug. Would that be better?

Joe
 
snipershot said:
No, I didn't thread it. I just made a short tennon at .630 in diameter, and .250 long. Then I bored a a hole in the stag and juma .631 in diameter and .252 deep. I epoxied the joint on and 2 days later after it cured, I cut the joint flush, center drilled the pin hole, made a small pass on my makeshift tapering machine, then installed the pin. Points are close, and so far, it has held up. Its probably only played 50 racks of 9bal and 15 racks of one pocket though.

Joe
Click to expand...

Like a Lambros joint ?
 
snipershot said:
Its probably only played 50 racks of 9bal and 15 racks of one pocket though.

Joe
Click to expand...

That's more than I've played in the past 3 years...:embarrassed2:

I think your idea with the short tenon will work because you still have the male pin running through the joint into the forearm wood. I wouldn't foresee a failure.

When I do a joint like you describe, it is a 3/4" OAL with a 5/8" bore X 1/2" deep. That leaves me with a 1/4" solid material.

Is my way better than yours? Doubt it. Is your way better than mine? Doubt it, as well.
 
snipershot said:
I've made a couple cues with what I would call a "solid" joint, meaning there is no wood going through the joint material. I've done one with juma and another with deer antler. On the juma, I bored a shallow pilot arounf .630 if I remember right and I did the same with the antler, but I made the antler joint taller. My question is, when you put on a solid joint, is the pilot needed? I made the pilot hole about .250 deep, so the joint would have more strength. The deer antler joint is the best I've done, and its my playing cue for the time being. The juma joint cue also turned out great and was my playing cue until I made the other one, lol. (See a pattern? Lol). Any input or tips are appreciated. Thanks!

Joe
Click to expand...

If I understand your question, I think you're asking if a pilot on the shaft is needed? No..not IMO.

I may be misunderstanding though, the joint I think you are talking about is what I normally call a capped joint. For example, in the finished product you look at the joint and all you see is the joint pin coming out of the joint material? I've had a few ivory jointed cues by different makers that used a flat faced capped joint, with no piloted shaft. Never had any problems with them. I would feel more comfy though with more than a .250 tenon, I'd probably go with what Ryan mentioned, something in the .500 range. Tapping the screw hole in the joint material as you mentioned would give another bit of security as well.
 
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JAlan said:
If I understand your question, I think you're asking if a pilot on the shaft is needed? No..not IMO.

I may be misunderstanding though, the joint I think you are talking about is what I normally call a capped joint. For example, in the finished product you look at the joint and all you see is the joint pin coming out of the joint material? I've had a few ivory jointed cues by different makers that used a flat faced capped joint, with no piloted shaft. Never had any problems with them. I would feel more comfy though with more than a .250 tenon, I'd probably go with what Ryan mentioned, something in the .500 range. Tapping the screw hole in the joint material as you mentioned would give another bit of security as well.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not talking about the shaft, the joint is flat faced. When I get my lathe up, ill take some pics of what I'm talking about.

Joe
 
Well, the pics are late, but I finally got em, lol.

Joe
 

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I don't think you'd have any problems with that setup since the joint material is threaded onto the pin. I'd still feel more comfy taking that tenon to half inch though if it were me :) I'm of the opinion your joint will bond better with the tenon given the more surface area for the epoxy as compared to more joint to pin area...if that makes any sense.
 
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Joe, from the looks of it, it does not have enough torque for me feel comfortable.
You have a mechanical bond between plastic and steel but not between wood and plastic. It will eventually rattle I think.
I would rather have a wood stem in there and thread that juma on the wood.
Have wood stem maybe at .550" OD , thread the outside for the juma and thread the inside of the juma.
 
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JoeyInCali said:
Joe, from the looks of it, it does not have enough torque for me feel comfortable.
You have a mechanical bond between plastic and steel but not between wood and plastic. It will eventually rattle I think.
I would rather have a wood stem in there and thread that juma on the wood.
Have wood stem maybe at .550" OD , thread the outside for the juma and thread the inside of the juma.
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I would love to do that Joey, but I can't do live threading. Also, that's deer antler, not juma, lol. Nice antler isn't it ;)

Joe
 
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