What is the purpose of having a Pool Instructor?

Pangit said:
The number one reason to have a Pool Insturctor...is so the "Pool Instructor" can make money. NOTHING replaces experience. No instructor can sell that. How many paid "instuctor's" do you think Efren has had?

I'm sure he and his backers have paid, but it was for losing...no "formal instruction" was involved. That's the best way to learn.
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I agree, but my Dad did teach me the basis fundamentals when I was about 13 & from there... play, play, & play some more. Then experiment, incorporate, & play some more.

PS To clarify, I am not an instructor. I did not mean to imply that an instructor is necessrily a 'bad' thing. Beginners & novices could get a good head start on the basic fundamentals & others could get a tune up or to solve a problem that may have crept in. I just meant that there is no real substitution for repititions & experience. But... practice does not make 'perfect'.... only 'perfect practice' makes 'perfect'. If one can start out correctly, simularly to as my father tauch me the basic fundamentals, one might not build bad habits that may cause problems & be hard to break later. Everyone is & learns differently & we should all keep an open mind about that.
 
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Pangit said:
The number one reason to have a Pool Insturctor...is so the "Pool Instructor" can make money. NOTHING replaces experience. No instructor can sell that. How many paid "instuctor's" do you think Efren has had?

I'm sure he and his backers have paid, but it was for losing...no "formal instruction" was involved. That's the best way to learn.
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Yes, you are correct... and they live in big mansions and drive Rolls Royce, and as they swim in their pools with super models frollicking in their bikini's, they smoke big stoogies and just laugh at the poor suckers who keep sending in the millions....I mean, what a scam, who would have thought anyone could even pull this one off.... Man, when you're right, you are right :rolleyes:
 
It’s interesting that so many are wasting time with someone who thinks that something is best learned on their own rather than from somebody. If this were true we would have 1/1,000th of the schools we have. I run into this kind of nuttiness all the time, people think pool is different than anything else in life; just say “it’s not” and move on.
 
Wow! I didn't think I was opening such a can of worms. I much appreciate all the support and the suggested materials I can use to not only evaluate and teach others, but also myself.

Like I said in some of my earlier posts. It was never my intention to create a "Why or why not" to have an instructor. When I asked What is the purpose I wasn't questioning the reason to have one. I was questioning the what exactly instructors wanted to accomplish with there teaching.

I like to teach. I've gotten a few of my friends into pool and help them play better. I was looking into giving semi-formal lessons and seeing how to go about it.

So far from the posts I've learned:
-use video and drills to evaluate skill
-come to an understanding of the student for what they hope to accomplish for the lessons
-find ways to communicate my knowledge as best I can
-don't get out of my realm of skills
-don't try to break down EVERY little detail of form if I'm not qualified to rebuild it correctly

Again. Thank you for all the support and various materials and people I can go to for instruction myself whether it be for my game or teaching others.
 
Myrtle_04 said:
Wow! I didn't think I was opening such a can of worms. I much appreciate all the support and the suggested materials I can use to not only evaluate and teach others, but also myself.

Like I said in some of my earlier posts. It was never my intention to create a "Why or why not" to have an instructor. When I asked What is the purpose I wasn't questioning the reason to have one. I was questioning the what exactly instructors wanted to accomplish with there teaching.

I like to teach. I've gotten a few of my friends into pool and help them play better. I was looking into giving semi-formal lessons and seeing how to go about it.
So far from the posts I've learned:
-use video and drills to evaluate skill
-come to an understanding of the student for what they hope to accomplish for the lessons
-find ways to communicate my knowledge as best I can
-don't get out of my realm of skills
-don't try to break down EVERY little detail of form if I'm not qualified to rebuild it correctly

Again. Thank you for all the support and various materials and people I can go to for instruction myself whether it be for my game or teaching others.
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Just wondering...what's the difference between a semi-formal lesson and a formal lesson? I'm just trying to figure out whether I give semi-formal or formal lessons.
 
FranCrimi said:
Just wondering...what's the difference between a semi-formal lesson and a formal lesson? I'm just trying to figure out whether I give semi-formal or formal lessons.
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Dress like this is Formal lesson.:smile:
formal.jpg
 
FranCrimi said:
That's what I thought. I guess I'm mostly semi-formal.
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Hmm… Trying to figure out what that makes me, then - LOL! :o

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
Formal instruction is that based on a pre-designed syllabus of information with a certified backround whereas i'm not a certified instructor nor do i have a pre-designed lesson plan.
 
Donny Lutz said:
It takes a willing student with a proper attitude to recognize the value of an instructor.
I'ts true that nothing replaces experience. That doesn't mean that all it takes is experience. I've known hundreds of players (thousands?) since 1955 who have played countless games for many years and yet still play at a low level. Then again I could cite many players who became very highly skilled in a relatively short time, because they sought out good instructors.

I gave a woman a lesson in 1986 who had never run a rack in ten years of play. The day after the lesson, she played in her first singles tournament...and won!

Experience has lots to do with shot selection and learning to play under pressure. But it won't do you all that much good if you don't have a decent stance, stroke, etc. This is what instruction does. Efren may not have had much "formal" instruction, but he is a master at observation and imagination. Most world class players have gone to multiple instructors..

Pool, like all sports, is not just about competition. It also involves COOPERATION...with friends, teammates, instructors, - anyone that you can learn from. If instruction had no value, why are there coaches in football, soccer, basketball, etc.? Just give a kid a ball and tell him to practice until he or she's a pro. Good luck with that!

The problem with many folks is they feel that asking for help is somehow a weakness. Or they fear that the lesson won't work and they will be embarrassed. Or they think it's too expensive to go to an instructor, when actually it's probably the best way to spend money on your quest to become a better player.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
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Most world class players have had many instructors? Could you name 10 American top players who have? I personally know many top players and can't think of any who learned to play from a instructor. Do you believe in natural talent? Do you believe any two people with the same dedication and work at their game can learn to play at the same level? These questions are for all instructors.
 
backplaying said:
Most world class players have had many instructors? Could you name 10 American top players who have? I personally know many top players and can't think of any who learned to play from a instructor. Do you believe in natural talent? Do you believe any two people with the same dedication and work at their game can learn to play at the same level? These questions are for all instructors.
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People differ widely in terms of talent. While everyone can save time and money with an instructor, it's true a talented player will improve more quickly, as does one with a proper work attitude - in general (I've had two brothers once - the one with the work attitude improved more quickly than the one with the world beater talent, although both ended up playing very well indeed). As to top players, virtually all who have never taken formal instruction had a tutor - ask them! Some will say there are exceptions, but there it's usually a matter of looking more closely: personally really curious about Shane's mom and auntie, for example… :wink:

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
GoldCrown said:
Let's forget about pro players. Can the average person learn to play pool on their own. I do not know any self taught players. I know a handful of excellent shooters. They learned to play pool from someone working with them. I'm sorry I did not have an instructor in the early 60's. I don't think they existed then as they do today. However it is never too late to learn & improve. I'm thankful for any teacher that can deliver quality info.
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'on their own' That's a good question but I would tend to say yes. But to clarify, since no man is an island unto him or her self. Something has to come from outside. Even if it is just seeing someone do something & then you learn to do it 'on your own'. You can be taught basic fundamentals, you can be taught certain shots & patterns. But can you be taught to be a 'player' vs. being a 'shooter'? I'd have to say no. IMHO I think you have to' 'learn' to be a 'player' on your own. In another thread on the 'ask the instructor' I got jumped for saying that one can play or shoot very good pool without using english & one can certainly do so 'relatively speaking'. I did not say one could become a very good 'player' without english. Lessons & help can speed up the learning process to becoming a 'shooter', but becoming a 'player', I think that's all on you & you alone.

PS I'm not an instructor & have never had a formal or informal lesson other than my Dad teaching me the basic fundamentals. I stole the rest from watching & playing against an old 'player'. I was 13 & he was 65 whe we started.

PSS I don't know why you're asking this. But, I hope that I have helped.

PSSS That 65 yr. old 'player' would not teach me, a 13 yr. old boy, one(1) thing, not one single thing. But, almost all of what I know about 'playing' the game I 'owe' to that old man. I got it from him, even though i had to 'steal' it form him. Did I 'learn' it 'own my own'?
 
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Many years ago when I was stationed at Scott Air Force base I would go to Belleville, Illinois for league and tournament play. I would always see Mark Wilson giving lessons to little Justin Bergman. The kids could barely reach over the table. Mark honed Justin into the killer he is now. Not sure how many hours or how much money his dad laid out for lessons but it looks like it has paid off for Justin
 
Instructors

I think you are all arguing over apples and oranges?
Humans learn skills in a very predictable way.

First you need some sort of "instruction". Now that can come from a book, or an instructor, or from the short end of a cheap set. But humans need to see something they don't know how to do, or learn a better way to do something, etc.

Next, we need to go off by ourselves and practice this new thing. There are many ways to practice new things, and this is where you incorporate your "lessons" into your game. Canned drills and progressive drills are a few of the ways.

Finally, we need to test what we have learned in the real world. We need tournaments, cheap or expensive sets or league play to see if we learned our lesson. We can then go back to our teachers, pick up something else to work on and repeat this cycle.

So yes, we all need someone or something to show us what we don't know, and yes, we need to go off by ourselves to practice, and yes, we need to test our new knowledge in the real world.

You are all right!

Now I can go back to playing pool!
 
Yes, and at the same time Mark was teaching Lars Vardeman...a several time national champion. Justin went the gambling way...Lars went the college route. Who do you think is better off today? Lars wins by a landslide. He is well educated, making a 6 figure income. Does Justin play better? Some...he would have to give Lars a little weight. However, Lars wouldn't have to sweat a high bet, and Justin might. We instructors were just having this same conversation yesterday at the trade show in Chicago.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

BryanB said:
Many years ago when I was stationed at Scott Air Force base I would go to Belleville, Illinois for league and tournament play. I would always see Mark Wilson giving lessons to little Justin Bergman. The kids could barely reach over the table. Mark honed Justin into the killer he is now. Not sure how many hours or how much money his dad laid out for lessons but it looks like it has paid off for Justin
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Scott,

Scott,
I knew Lars there as well. He seemed to have the calmer head on his shoulders. I completely agree that he is much better off by going to school. I've known many younger guys trying their hand at being a road player. Living in their cars, eating fast food all the time, hoping to win gas money to make it to the next town...That is not a future to look forward to
 
Scott Lee said:
Yes, and at the same time Mark was teaching Lars Vardeman...a several time national champion. Justin went the gambling way...Lars went the college route. Who do you think is better off today? Lars wins by a landslide. He is well educated, making a 6 figure income. Does Justin play better? Some...he would have to give Lars a little weight. However, Lars wouldn't have to sweat a high bet, and Justin might. We instructors were just having this same conversation yesterday at the trade show in Chicago.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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There is a very, very small percentage of players for whom this kind of instruction will pay off. For the vast, vast majority it is a waste of time and money.

Lou Figueroa
 
Pool instruction

Reading a book titled
Continuous HIgh Runs author Johnny Holliday this book was published 1984

He states - the joy of any sport Is knowing what takes place, why and how. To continue playing from day to day and year to year without knowing is waste. My daughter is a pretty good tennis player but as a junior she had a number of coaches to many voices in her head.
As for personal instruction if you can find a good teacher of pocket billiards (pool) I beleive it can only help.

Mcp
 
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