What is the purpose of having a Pool Instructor?

You dont know what you don't know

I would be willing to bet that the folks saying that instructors are a waste of money have not taken a lesson from a certified master instructor. There are so many good players who think they can teach and many of them give quality instructors a bad name. Unless you have taken lessons from several top notch instructors, I'm not sure how you can make an objective opinion on the effectiveness of professional instruction. There are way more good players than there are quality instructors. I have not talked to anyone who has taken lessons from a certified master level instructor and said it was a waste of money... Most say it was worth way more.
 
So he can take your money over and over and tell you how good
your getting,then you go into a tournament and go 2 and out.
Do Drills for hours and hours and teach yourself discipline,you will notice
vast improvement.To each there own!!!
 
So he can take your money over and over and tell you how good
your getting,then you go into a tournament and go 2 and out.
Do Drills for hours and hours and teach yourself discipline,you will notice
vast improvement.To each there own!!!

There's a basic misunderstanding here: taking lessons from an instructor doesn't mean one is then NOT going home "doing drills for hours, teaching oneself discipline" as you call it. It doesn't mean go there, shake hands, be impressed with what the guy has to say, then continue one's life doing nothing for oneself and one's game. To take lessons is to save time and money insofar as one is going to do what really improves one's game, and NOT feel like putting in a lot of effort accomplishing nothing. That's the point: one will know what to do, and feel more confident because one knows what to do, as well as feel more knowledgeable, which again adds to one's confidence level.

I still remember taking lessons with Jerry Briesath over twenty years ago: before, I was putting in many ineffective practice hours, and then, all of a sudden, comparatively few effective ones. Huge difference! Saved me years of blood, sweat and tears, as well as a bucket-full of money. That's what taking lessons is all about.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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I would be willing to bet that the folks saying that instructors are a waste of money have not taken a lesson from a certified master instructor. There are so many good players who think they can teach and many of them give quality instructors a bad name. Unless you have taken lessons from several top notch instructors, I'm not sure how you can make an objective opinion on the effectiveness of professional instruction. There are way more good players than there are quality instructors. I have not talked to anyone who has taken lessons from a certified master level instructor and said it was a waste of money... Most say it was worth way more.

I disagree...How many Pinoy's have had a "certified master intructor"? Most can't afford that sort of thing. Learn the hard-way. Get your ass kicked by an old vet.

Per Capita, the PI or Chinese Taipei are the best pool playing Nations in the world. "Per Capita" is the key phrase. Taiwan has Pool Academy's The PI doesn't. Where would you rather hone your skills???
 
I would be willing to bet that the folks saying that instructors are a waste of money have not taken a lesson from a certified master instructor. There are so many good players who think they can teach and many of them give quality instructors a bad name. Unless you have taken lessons from several top notch instructors, I'm not sure how you can make an objective opinion on the effectiveness of professional instruction. There are way more good players than there are quality instructors. I have not talked to anyone who has taken lessons from a certified master level instructor and said it was a waste of money... Most say it was worth way more.


No, I have not. HOWEVER, I have watched *many* lessons given to students by an instructor consider one of the very best and want no part of them.

I have also seen many of these same students, days and weeks later, struggling to make the simplest of shots and on several occasions have had these same guys come up to me in desperation and ask, "What am I doing wrong?" or "Why can' I make this shot?" or just lament, "He told me to shoot this way,but it still doesn't feel natural." I always tell them I don't like messing with someone's student, but in each case they were so desperate they insisted I help.

My opinion is that the physics of the game are best learned from a book or a DVD like Dr. Dave's VEPS. You can watch it, study it, and go back to it as often as you like. NO instructor is going to provide you with a product that detailed, and even more importantly, that grounded in correct science. I also think almost anyone can straighten out a beginner and, from simple observation, point out their most egregious errors and help them out show them a drill or two. At every pool room in the country there are good to great players who are almost always willing to help you out for free if you just ask nice.

From there I think people need to work things out on their own because there are so many possible variations to a PSR and every person perceives the balls differently and every person's body has it's own idiosyncrasies. There may be a few guys who do benefit. But these are the guys that are so ate up with the game and have talent in the first place and have the drive and determination to put in the long, long hours on the table anyway. It's sort of like what John Schmidt said about Stevie Moore, something like: You could put a bag over Stevie's head and he'd still shoot great because he's a great player.

So, IMO, after all is said and done, and as the very wise JoeyA has oft said, "Every man must find his own salvation."

Lou Figueroa
 
I disagree...How many Pinoy's have had a "certified master intructor"? Most can't afford that sort of thing. Learn the hard-way. Get your ass kicked by an old vet.

Per Capita, the PI or Chinese Taipei are the best pool playing Nations in the world. "Per Capita" is the key phrase. Taiwan has Pool Academy's The PI doesn't. Where would you rather hone your skills???

I disagree: if you have infinite time (and, in our part of the world: money!), this may sound like a viable option - especially if one is a pro. I've been around enough Filipino players to understand why they can't afford to give away secrets. But here, where pool is a pastime to most, a sport to few, and a profession to none, it's all about getting the most out of it in little time - i.e. people's precious free (recreational, leisure - you name it!) time!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
So he can take your money over and over and tell you how good
your getting,then you go into a tournament and go 2 and out.
Do Drills for hours and hours and teach yourself discipline,you will notice
vast improvement.To each there own!!!

So if you just do drills over and over if you have fundamental problems you will just "work" it out with repetition and discipline even though you can't spot what they are to correct them?
 
Who here has put in over 1850 hours of pool shooting in a year? I have.

Stop measuring how long you been playing pool in terms of calendar time and start thinking in terms of man hours.

50 years of playing means nothing to me, 50,000 hours does.

The best money I ever spent was on those 1850 hours.

There is no way to prove that any instruction will shorten your learning curve cause there is always something to learn in pool. If you ever get to a point where you do not, put the cue away, your done as a pool player.

There is only one way to learn pool, table time. You can not develop a high level of feel without lots of table. And feel is what pool is about.

Also you can not gain a high level of confidence without lots of table time. See, I can say cause I have been in the long hours and I have seen the improvement that has been made from this.

I playing against someone right now that has put in more time than me and it shows in his shooting. HE seldom misses and there is only one way for that to happen-lots of table time. You can not get the feel for where the balls are gonna go when you hit them without lots of table time. Very critical in 14.1

Nor can you get the feel for how to approach breaking up a cluster of balls without lots of table time.

I am not saying some form of instruction is not necessary. I just believe the notion that one must use a instructor is just over rated.
 
duckie...Who here has ever said that one 'must' use an instructor? You're, of course. completely wrong that improvement cannot be proven. Our students prove it every day, as they get more comfortable and consistent with their own "process"...and it shows up in their personal improvement at the competitive table. You HAMB guys kill me! LOL Nobody has ever said you won't improve with a lot of table time. What a good instuctor can do is make that table time pay off sooner, by specific practice designed to similate game playing...and then taking it to the pressure of competition. There is no substitute for time on the table...but you can be more intelligent about how you go about it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Who here has put in over 1850 hours of pool shooting in a year? I have.

Stop measuring how long you been playing pool in terms of calendar time and start thinking in terms of man hours.

50 years of playing means nothing to me, 50,000 hours does.

The best money I ever spent was on those 1850 hours.

There is no way to prove that any instruction will shorten your learning curve cause there is always something to learn in pool. If you ever get to a point where you do not, put the cue away, your done as a pool player.

There is only one way to learn pool, table time. You can not develop a high level of feel without lots of table. And feel is what pool is about.

Also you can not gain a high level of confidence without lots of table time. See, I can say cause I have been in the long hours and I have seen the improvement that has been made from this.

I playing against someone right now that has put in more time than me and it shows in his shooting. HE seldom misses and there is only one way for that to happen-lots of table time. You can not get the feel for where the balls are gonna go when you hit them without lots of table time. Very critical in 14.1

Nor can you get the feel for how to approach breaking up a cluster of balls without lots of table time.

I am not saying some form of instruction is not necessary. I just believe the notion that one must use a instructor is just over rated.
 
Why would anyone want to shorten their learning curve with a second set of eyes :grin: ?

Some people are good at picking out their mistakes and correcting them. Others are not.
 
Wow 1850 hours of pool shooting a year. That is quite an accomplishment. By my calculations this comes out to a little over 5 hours a day, every day.

We should all have that amount of time on our hands to pursue the things we love. Your wife must be a very understanding person.

Since many of us don't have that kind of time on our hands everyday, we have to focus on quality not quantity.




Who here has put in over 1850 hours of pool shooting in a year? I have.

Stop measuring how long you been playing pool in terms of calendar time and start thinking in terms of man hours.

50 years of playing means nothing to me, 50,000 hours does.

The best money I ever spent was on those 1850 hours.

There is no way to prove that any instruction will shorten your learning curve cause there is always something to learn in pool. If you ever get to a point where you do not, put the cue away, your done as a pool player.

There is only one way to learn pool, table time. You can not develop a high level of feel without lots of table. And feel is what pool is about.

Also you can not gain a high level of confidence without lots of table time. See, I can say cause I have been in the long hours and I have seen the improvement that has been made from this.

I playing against someone right now that has put in more time than me and it shows in his shooting. HE seldom misses and there is only one way for that to happen-lots of table time. You can not get the feel for where the balls are gonna go when you hit them without lots of table time. Very critical in 14.1

Nor can you get the feel for how to approach breaking up a cluster of balls without lots of table time.

I am not saying some form of instruction is not necessary. I just believe the notion that one must use a instructor is just over rated.
 
Guys, can we please all out ourselves, so this discussion makes sense at all? Everyone contributing to this thread please mention if you've taken lessons with an instructor, if indeed it was an instructor or a mentor (= more experienced player). If you like, add whom you took lessons with, and whether or not you thought it improved your game (as well as, possibly, your ability to teach this game).

I for one have taken lessons with Jerry Briesath as mentioned earlier, and have profited enormously from it, both in terms of my own playing, as well as teaching the game ever since.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
Everyone contributing to this thread please mention if you've taken lessons with an instructor, if indeed it was an instructor or a mentor (= more experienced player). If you like, add whom you took lessons with, and whether or not you thought it improved your game (as well as, possibly, your ability to teach this game).
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Sorry if I'm repeating and might have posted earlier.
SPF w/ Scott Lee. "Yes" to improved my game and worth every $$$. BTW... excellent Forum & thread. Thanks to AzB I found a great instructor.
 
Who here has put in over 1850 hours of pool shooting in a year? I have.

Five hours a day every day? Please tell me you're running three digits every day of your life, with the possible exception of the odd "off" day now and then. Or that you're retired from work, and enjoying your old-age pension.

The best money I ever spent was on those 1850 hours.

Guess what, we all believe (and envy!) you… :thumbup:

There is no way to prove that any instruction will shorten your learning curve cause there is always something to learn in pool.

It's not at all as if one contradicted the other, though. There may be too much to learn to fill a lifetime. What an instructor does is make students improve by learning economically and effectively, instead of doing it the hard way, acquiring and burying themselves in bad habits. There's no need to know "everything" in order to be wellnigh invincible - it's sufficient to know what works.

You can not develop a high level of feel without lots of table. And feel is what pool is about.

There is obviously nothing wrong with acquiring a great feel for the game either with or without a lot of table time.

I am not saying some form of instruction is not necessary. I just believe the notion that one must use a instructor is just over rated.

There is no such thing as "must"! The question is which the real luxury is: spend money on instruction and thus save time and money needn't be. Practicing hard without seeing much improvement definitely would be. If you can do it all without instruction, more power to you - but don't make the mistake to assume the same is true for everyone else.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
This thread kind of took on a life of it's own. I didn't realize how much debate there was between those who believe in instruction and those who don't see the point.

Like I said. I wasn't really really questioning the need of instructors. I was wanting a few central ideals and motivations of instructors that they use to instruct and instill in their students.

I wasn't expecting the controversy that I've seen in this thread. I'm in college right now. Want to give some lessons and wanted a few tips. I'm not much of a gambler so I'd much rather take Lars's road. I want to be the best, but I don't want to sacrifice my education or anything else in order to do it.
 
I vote for jumping in and getting into some action. Skip the instructor. :) :)

Yea, and learn nothing except how to be a good loser. I'd rather give my money to someone trying to build my game up instead of tear down my confidence.
 
The best instructions on the net doesn't do much good if you don't know how to apply it. I spent 3hours recently with a world class player and learned so much about stance I never knew before. And I read everything on the net. And instructor will have you learning more and learning faster and more efficient.
 
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