well here we are again. bash me.

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it starts at the bottom and goes up from there.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Send me MY KOA CUE....
From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
To: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
CC:

Trent,
In addition to what has already been stated.......I just want you to know that if I discover that my Koa cue has indeed been sold to someone else, I am not only going after you to recover my property, but your buyer as well, your buyer will never be able to take the cue out in public without repercussions . . . I have also taken pictures of your facebook page showing the the comments and offers you received on my Koa cue during and after its completion. I will be providing this evidence to the police and my attorney.

Sincerely Larry Shaughnessy


LShaughnessy

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
To: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: your message / rattle


Trent
There is nothing to work out, and there is nothing to debate. You have MY PROPERTY.... Send me the completed koa cue and the shafts as agreed upon. The paypal payment has been made for the $135 that I owed you for making the cue with MY STABILIZED KOA MATERIALS. It is now done. YOU HAVE BEEN PAID IN FULL...... PERIOD. Paypal Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID #
62M39456EU690472L) If I want to use the cue as a tomato stake in my garden thats up to me. If you decide not to follow through with this written agreement its breach of contract and theft.

If I do not receive an email with the tracking # for the completed koa cue and shafts by 10 am Wednesday morning (7-25-12), then I will be filing charges with your local police department, and contacting my attorney for the next legal steps I need to take. I will also be posting all of this, so people can see that you STOLE the stabilized koa from me.

Sincerely,
Larry Shaughnessy

LShaughnessy


________________________________
From: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
To: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: your message / rattle

I thought I was making a fair offer but apparently not.

I offered to make you a free cue if u supply the material, just to make it up to you. And refund your money and give you some very nice burl woods. I thought bussiness wise on my part that was more than fair.

I have a lot of time and money invested in this aswell, the rings are not chep nor is the phenolic or the pins or the finish. I'm at a lose in this just as much as you.

I urge you to please reconsider my offer. As I do not want a substandard cue to leave my shop.

If you still deam this as a unsatisfactory offer I'm sure we can work it out.

T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network

Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Absolutely not........... The koa belongs to me. I supplied the material. I will not
bash you, but its up to me to decide whether or not to live with the "rattle". The original agreement in writing also states that you will return the wood to me if anything goes wrong. You agreed to that prior to me shipping the materials to you. Under no circumstances will you be keeping the koa. If you do not send the cue to me then I will call the police department in your area and file this as a theft, for the value of the koa, stabilizing, shipping and my time.
>
>If the rattle is not something I can live with then I will have it fixed........but that is my choice. I owe you $130 and I will pay you that amount, but I want the cue and the shafts, as agreed upon. Send me the finished cue as pictured on your facebook page and the pool boards its been posted on with the shafts. I included one of the pictures with this email. Please understand that if you make me pursue
this beyond this email, then the details (all emails and correspondence) will be disclosed, and I will pursue whatever legal means necessary to get you to uphold your end of the written agreement.
>
>Please send an email reponse within 24 hours.
>
>Sincerely,
>Larry Shaughnessy
>
>LShaughnessy
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Trent Cowgill <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
>To: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:36 AM
>Subject: Re: Fw: your message / rattle
>
> Ive thought about this all night at work and im really not comfortable putting a cue out in
the world that isnt up to par with my standards and that someone could receive and bash me on AZ causing me problems.
>How about next payday I refund the money you had originally paid and ill ship you some burl wood to make up for the KOA. and to top it off when I get the shop back up and running after the move ill make you another cue with your wood and rings for the cost of material only to make it up to you.
>
>This is really what I feel most comfortable with.
>
>
>
>
>--- On Sat, 7/21/12, Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Fw: your message / rattle
>>To: "Trent" <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
>>Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:27 PM
>>
>>
>>Tell me what I owe you and then just send me the cue with the shafts.... Thanks Larry
>>
>>LShaughnessy
>>----- Forwarded Message -----
>>From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
>>To: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:20 PM
>>Subject: your message / rattle
>>
>>You wrote ---> "Well i have some bad news. I took the cue to the pool room this morning to test hit it with my playing shaft, it hit really
solid and played well. until i hit a extreme low english shot and i heard a funny sound. so i held it up to my ear ear and gave it a few taps and theres a slight rattle at the Ajoint but its deffenitly aparent that its there. I dont know what to do about it, ive never had one rattle like this before.
>>
>>breaks my heart I really liked this cue, but theres no way it acceptable now. How would you like me to resolve this?
>>
>>I feel horrible."
>>
 
From those emails, it seems like your customer was pretty straight forward about the whole thing. He was a little bit frank, but not out of line considering you are holding his property against his will.

If you do anything short of giving him the cue as is, you are in the wrong and should have the cops called on you. Simple as that.
 
Wow, after reading through those emails,it's very clear. Send the cue to the man and call it a day. He was not rude in any way. He is entitled to his property and is obviously aware of his legal rights. Just send it back, finish your last two cues and enjoy making cues for yourself.
 
Dude, send the guy his cue. I don't see any disrespect or rudeness in any of his emails. If you agreed that if anything went wrong you would return HIS wood why is it different now? I don't think anything he said was inappropriate. If you guys had an agreement before he sent you the wood and you are now in breach of that agreement, by not sending him HIS wood after something has gone wrong, then he has every right to rectify the situation legally. Are you mad because he brought up the police and lawyer? He understands the cue has a "rattle" and wants the cue as is. Why would you want to cut the cue into pieces before you send it back? He's now paid you in full for the cue so send him his cue and let him do with it what he wants. You are bringing unnecessary negative attention on yourself. I don't think anybody on this board will side with you on this one. I'm baffled that you would even post this. :confused:
 
Red looks good on you Crack.

Trent, Larry's emails to you were straight forward. You had an agreement with him to send the wood back if anything should screw up.

He doesn't want your burl, he wants his KOA back. I would too.

Larry mentioned that you had some offers for the cue on your Face Book page.

Whether it is true or not and I suspect not, it could be construed that you may sell the cue for a better price and send Larry back some wood that he doesn't want.

He sent you usable squares and you are threatening to cut the cue into small unusable pieces out of spite.

Why the spite? I didn't read anywhere in the posted emails that Larry was being rude.

Send him the cue the way it is and accept the money that you agreed upon. The ring work and pin in that cue is no way worth anything compared to what that KOA is worth.

I have always got along with you Trent and figured you for a pretty decent guy but you are about to cut your nose off in spite of your face.

Thaiger, Larry is a member here. He posts under the name of Meridian Blades. He is a class A knife maker and knows what going on. He stays mostly in the machinery and Ask the Maker forum.
 
lol I should have known better than to think people would have sided with the maker that is not the AZ way.

it just goes to show how undervalued a maker can be. and that its ok to acuse them of being a theif, threaten them, and demand anything they wish of you no matter what.

and as far as problems with the wood that was like if the wood cracked, checked, split or something of that nature like the ebony he had sent it exploded, tons of cracks everywhere.



Im not finishing the cue end of story.
 
Make yourself look good. Return the wood and his money.... And then move on. Don't stop producing cues for people if your work is in demand. Just use this as learning experience. If the situation was reversed how would you like it to be handled?
 
Last edited:
GoldCrown said:
Make yourself look good. Return the wood and his money.... And then move on. Don't stop producing cues for people if your work in demand. Just use this as learning experience. If the situation was reversed how would you like it to be handled?
Click to expand...

I probably would have taken what i offered

1. free cue after i finish moving
2. refunding all the money back
3. multiple sticks of ambonya, thuya, camphor burl to replace the wood as I dont have any koa.

pretty fair offer or maybe I would have fixed it (after the move) but no he wants it done shiped by tuesday or there will be legal action:eek:

But its ok to talk to me like shit and threaten me because hes the buyer and the wood guy on AZ.

last offer i send back the 130 i told him not to send minus shipping materials and shipping expense and he gets a rattle and ringwork no shafts.
 
Well the good news is you dont have to answer to the walk on water crew they have rolling on here,,

At the end of the day you have to look at your self in the mirror and ask the guestion did I do the rite thing ,, the only answer that matters is yours



1
 
JCIN said:
This cue thing gets weirder and weirder.

In my experience dealing with pissed off people (I have a little) through a text medium it can be easy for things to get out of hand. A smart man once told me something about making decisions when he was pissed off. He said:

"Whenever I am really hot about something and make a decision I always wait a day before actually doing anything. Almost always after I cool down I decide on a different course of action than when I was pissed off."

I try hard to remember that when I'm pissed about something especially something online business related. Doesn't always work...sometimes I'm too pissed off to heed those words of wisdom but the majority of the time I do and they ring very true for me.

One thing is certain if you really do cut up this guys wood to spite him, after you screwed up, it makes you one of the biggest douchebags on the internet. Thats really saying something. I bet after you cool down you'll find a better resolution for all involved...or not. If not at least we'll get a 10 page thread out of it.
Click to expand...


I love TAR,

I try to buy whenever I can.

Back when i bought the vanboening match and paid in advance and you screwed something up and gave it for free to everyone I didnt complain, or ask for money back.

I thought you would support someone in the industry better than this especially since shit happens and you try to make it up to people as best you can.

but I guess that only applies to your business practices not others.

ill still be a big supporter :grin: thanks for what you do.
 
Whats this a cuemaker that stands behind his product?? :) I understand why Trent would not want to send out an inferior product, I applaud him for it. If he had an agreement to return the wood then yes it should be returned, however I see no problem in disassembling the cue and sending back the remaining dowels of KOA. The cue as assembled is a Marley, as the owner of such, he should be able to take it apart and return the materials. Sending the whole cue with the rattle will always be a "it was so F'd up I had to get someone else to fix it" scenario. Right or wrong, AZ does have a lot of pull in cuemakers lives. There are many cuemakers that used to be on here, that make a GREAT product, that have been run off by the ridiculous bashing threads. These threads thrive on pettiness and the ability to be anoynomous, while in most cases are instigated by people that we would not want to do business with in real life because they are the thieves or dishonest people. Most cuemakers are very reputable, Trent being one of them, however, one disagreement or difference of opinion is magnified and rehashed for years. It becomes a he-said, argument that ultimately affects us all because most of the people that chime in don't know the parties or situation, but enjoy stirring things up. This leads to the cue and case makers saying they don't need all the drama and leaving the site...who loses then? We all do. If this site was just made up of players and gamblers and people trying to make a quick buck, it will quickly become a sad state of affairs.
 
Trent said:
lol I should have known better than to think people would have sided with the maker that is not the AZ way.

it just goes to show how undervalued a maker can be. and that its ok to acuse them of being a theif, threaten them, and demand anything they wish of you no matter what.

and as far as problems with the wood that was like if the wood cracked, checked, split or something of that nature like the ebony he had sent it exploded, tons of cracks everywhere.



Im not finishing the cue end of story.
Click to expand...


I can understand you don't want to send out a cue that's not up to par. But you really have no choice . Mainly because he provided the wood. He wants it back undamaged.
Got to deal with the good and the bad. Send it back and get over it. He can still fix it if he wants ,,and be happy.

Either that,,,or you needs to fix it. And your not going to do that.

Or hmmm??? Cut it up into tiny pieces and send it back. That will show everyone how good of a job you expect from yourself. Kinda like punching yourself in the face!!!

I think the cue looks damm nice. And a little rattle isn't "all" bad . Destroying it is pretty silly.
 
Trent said:
lol I should have known better than to think people would have sided with the maker that is not the AZ way.
Click to expand...

You started the thread, not the buyer.

You titled the thread "bash me."

I believe you knew the reaction your story would get. If you aren't happy with that reaction, knowing it was quite likely, why even post it here in the first place?
 
Trent said:
I probably would have taken what i offered

1. free cue after i finish moving
2. refunding all the money back
3. multiple sticks of ambonya, thuya, camphor burl to replace the wood as I dont have any koa.

pretty fair offer or maybe I would have fixed it (after the move) but no he wants it done shiped by tuesday or there will be legal action:eek:

But its ok to talk to me like shit and threaten me because hes the buyer and the wood guy on AZ.

last offer i send back the 130 i told him not to send minus shipping materials and shipping expense and he gets a rattle and ringwork no shafts.
Click to expand...

You would have taken what you offered... That's YOUR choice...
But the choice is his. And the guy wants his KOA wood/cue.

Your drama in this thread needs to stop.

He's paid you in full.

Ship the cue and call it a day...
 
JonTravisTaylor said:
Whats this a cuemaker that stands behind his product?? :) I understand why Trent would not want to send out an inferior product, I applaud him for it. If he had an agreement to return the wood then yes it should be returned, however I see no problem in disassembling the cue and sending back the remaining dowels of KOA. The cue as assembled is a Marley, as the owner of such, he should be able to take it apart and return the materials. Sending the whole cue with the rattle will always be a "it was so F'd up I had to get someone else to fix it" scenario. Right or wrong, AZ does have a lot of pull in cuemakers lives. There are many cuemakers that used to be on here, that make a GREAT product, that have been run off by the ridiculous bashing threads. These threads thrive on pettiness and the ability to be anoynomous, while in most cases are instigated by people that we would not want to do business with in real life because they are the thieves or dishonest people. Most cuemakers are very reputable, Trent being one of them, however, one disagreement or difference of opinion is magnified and rehashed for years. It becomes a he-said, argument that ultimately affects us all because most of the people that chime in don't know the parties or situation, but enjoy stirring things up. This leads to the cue and case makers saying they don't need all the drama and leaving the site...who loses then? We all do. If this site was just made up of players and gamblers and people trying to make a quick buck, it will quickly become a sad state of affairs.
Click to expand...

Great post sir thank you.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
justadub said:
You started the thread, not the buyer.

You titled the thread "bash me."

I believe you knew the reaction your story would get. If you aren't happy with that reaction, knowing it was quite likely, why even post it here in the first place?
Click to expand...

he already said he would post it here so for once i figured maybe the maker should be proactive instead of reactive so i posted it. knowing AZ would never pass up a chance to slam a cuemaker i titled it as such knowing the future was definite,

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Since larry loves ultimatums.
Larry has until I wake from my nap to answer my last offer, and then i will disassemble the cue and send him the wood back.

which could easily still make a nice forearm and butt sleeve to a new cue add a new handle and BAM instant sexy cue
 
Trent said:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Send me MY KOA CUE....
From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
To: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
CC:

Trent,
In addition to what has already been stated.......I just want you to know that if I discover that my Koa cue has indeed been sold to someone else, I am not only going after you to recover my property, but your buyer as well, your buyer will never be able to take the cue out in public without repercussions . . . I have also taken pictures of your facebook page showing the the comments and offers you received on my Koa cue during and after its completion. I will be providing this evidence to the police and my attorney.

Sincerely Larry Shaughnessy


LShaughnessy

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
To: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: your message / rattle


Trent
There is nothing to work out, and there is nothing to debate. You have MY PROPERTY.... Send me the completed koa cue and the shafts as agreed upon. The paypal payment has been made for the $135 that I owed you for making the cue with MY STABILIZED KOA MATERIALS. It is now done. YOU HAVE BEEN PAID IN FULL...... PERIOD. Paypal Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID #
62M39456EU690472L) If I want to use the cue as a tomato stake in my garden thats up to me. If you decide not to follow through with this written agreement its breach of contract and theft.

If I do not receive an email with the tracking # for the completed koa cue and shafts by 10 am Wednesday morning (7-25-12), then I will be filing charges with your local police department, and contacting my attorney for the next legal steps I need to take. I will also be posting all of this, so people can see that you STOLE the stabilized koa from me.

Sincerely,
Larry Shaughnessy

LShaughnessy


________________________________
From: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
To: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: your message / rattle

I thought I was making a fair offer but apparently not.

I offered to make you a free cue if u supply the material, just to make it up to you. And refund your money and give you some very nice burl woods. I thought bussiness wise on my part that was more than fair.

I have a lot of time and money invested in this aswell, the rings are not chep nor is the phenolic or the pins or the finish. I'm at a lose in this just as much as you.

I urge you to please reconsider my offer. As I do not want a substandard cue to leave my shop.

If you still deam this as a unsatisfactory offer I'm sure we can work it out.

T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network

Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Absolutely not........... The koa belongs to me. I supplied the material. I will not
bash you, but its up to me to decide whether or not to live with the "rattle". The original agreement in writing also states that you will return the wood to me if anything goes wrong. You agreed to that prior to me shipping the materials to you. Under no circumstances will you be keeping the koa. If you do not send the cue to me then I will call the police department in your area and file this as a theft, for the value of the koa, stabilizing, shipping and my time.
>
>If the rattle is not something I can live with then I will have it fixed........but that is my choice. I owe you $130 and I will pay you that amount, but I want the cue and the shafts, as agreed upon. Send me the finished cue as pictured on your facebook page and the pool boards its been posted on with the shafts. I included one of the pictures with this email. Please understand that if you make me pursue
this beyond this email, then the details (all emails and correspondence) will be disclosed, and I will pursue whatever legal means necessary to get you to uphold your end of the written agreement.
>
>Please send an email reponse within 24 hours.
>
>Sincerely,
>Larry Shaughnessy
>
>LShaughnessy
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Trent Cowgill <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
>To: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:36 AM
>Subject: Re: Fw: your message / rattle
>
> Ive thought about this all night at work and im really not comfortable putting a cue out in
the world that isnt up to par with my standards and that someone could receive and bash me on AZ causing me problems.
>How about next payday I refund the money you had originally paid and ill ship you some burl wood to make up for the KOA. and to top it off when I get the shop back up and running after the move ill make you another cue with your wood and rings for the cost of material only to make it up to you.
>
>This is really what I feel most comfortable with.
>
>
>
>
>--- On Sat, 7/21/12, Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Fw: your message / rattle
>>To: "Trent" <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
>>Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 6:27 PM
>>
>>
>>Tell me what I owe you and then just send me the cue with the shafts.... Thanks Larry
>>
>>LShaughnessy
>>----- Forwarded Message -----
>>From: Larry Shaughnessy <larrymshaughnessy@yahoo.com>
>>To: Trent <marleycustomcues@yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:20 PM
>>Subject: your message / rattle
>>
>>You wrote ---> "Well i have some bad news. I took the cue to the pool room this morning to test hit it with my playing shaft, it hit really
solid and played well. until i hit a extreme low english shot and i heard a funny sound. so i held it up to my ear ear and gave it a few taps and theres a slight rattle at the Ajoint but its deffenitly aparent that its there. I dont know what to do about it, ive never had one rattle like this before.
>>
>>breaks my heart I really liked this cue, but theres no way it acceptable now. How would you like me to resolve this?
>>
>>I feel horrible."
>>
Click to expand...
The very simple way to ends this is to send him the cue as he requests. Do not sign or mark the cue in any way and have him sign an agreement that he is buying the cue as is as defective. At that point learn a lesson for the future.

Hearing now that it was stabilized wood we know where the rattle came from. The polymer that was used to stabilize did not accept the glue. I have seen some stabilized woods that you could not glue at all, it was like they made of Teflon.
 
Last edited:
Trent said:
lol I should have known better than to think people would have sided with the maker that is not the AZ way.
it just goes to show how undervalued a maker can be. and that its ok to acuse them of being a theif, threaten them, and demand anything they wish of you no matter what.

and as far as problems with the wood that was like if the wood cracked, checked, split or something of that nature like the ebony he had sent it exploded, tons of cracks everywhere.



Im not finishing the cue end of story.
Click to expand...

Trent, do you really think that we don't understand why a cue maker would not want a cue with issues to leave the shop?
It's not unusual to hold back a cue because it developed a problem, or band saw up a cue because you don't want to fix it,
or refuse to send out a cue with problems.
The fact that it is the customer's wood makes it more complicated and unusual, so just send him the cue.

The last time I read about your customer resolution issues you wanted to send the buyer the cue in pieces, to let another cuemaker finish it.
Now you have a cue finished and you want to chop it up so nobody can fix it.
Make up your mind
 
Last edited:
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