Overcutting Balls And Then Not

I have said nothing of the kind in any way, shape or form. Where is all the anger and invective coming from?

Patrick knocked some of my ideas and I said, "I got some of them from Varner, Sigel and Martin." But I went beyond appealing to their authority to insisting that some respect be shown them.

Comparing statements like mine to a flasher exposing himself beneath his trenchcoat shows a perversion of mind and spirit. I'll pray for you, Sean.

Good grief. The "trenchcoat" analogy is that used on NYC street corners, where vendors hawk watches from under trenchcoats. I used this analogy for your certifications, where you're flashing them to us, as if they were shiny watches and trinkets pinned to the inside.

Who's mind is in the gutter now, Matt? You should pray for yourself for even *thinking* of anything else.

What facts? You don't respond to any of the five points of my thesis and reduced them Reductio ad absurdem.

It's not a game for me to defend my teaching. I am paid to teach. Cite some facts in error and I'll listen to you, I will correct my website or a future edition of my book if I am wrong, and I'll respect your right to an opinion. Still waiting!

<face palm> *That* is the point we're trying to tell you! If you're going to write an article, do your due diligence first and get the terms/concepts right. Not "after," then ask for "feedback." That is the whole point of contention all along.

-Sean
 
Lets take a break for a minute.
Time for a quiz,what is the root of all evil?
I know its a tough question and I doubt if any of you know.:grin:
"The love of money is the root of all sorts of evil." -- 1 Timothy 6:10

I love my children, not money. I make money teaching and playing to take care of them. I will likely always respond to any post knocking my expertise or contacts.

Do AZ members not defend my right to free speech?
 
Good grief. The "trenchcoat" analogy is that used on NYC street corners, where vendors hawk watches from under trenchcoats. I used this analogy for your certifications, where you're flashing them to us, as if they were shiny watches and trinkets pinned to the inside.

Who's mind is in the gutter now, Matt? You should pray for yourself for even *thinking* of anything else.



<face palm> *That* is the point we're trying to tell you! If you're going to write an article, do your due diligence first and get the terms/concepts right. Not "after," then ask for "feedback." That is the whole point of contention all along.

-Sean
Good grief. The "trenchcoat" analogy is that used on NYC street corners, where vendors hawk watches from under trenchcoats. I used this analogy for your certifications, where you're flashing them to us, as if they were shiny watches and trinkets pinned to the inside.

Who's mind is in the gutter now, Matt? You should pray for yourself for even *thinking* of anything else.

I'm from New York and I can see that. Please disregard my earlier post. I apologize.

<face palm> *That* is the point we're trying to tell you! If you're going to write an article, do your due diligence first and get the terms/concepts right. Not "after," then ask for "feedback." That is the whole point of contention all along.

Is it terms or concepts?

1. Terms - AZ does not run the billiards world, and certainly not its forums. I did my due diligence on a term like "cling together" when I ran it by a master instructor. Basta! (Enough.)

2. Concepts - If it's concepts bring them on. That's how I learn. I don't mind constructive criticism. And I don't need to ever again cite authorities or credentials except to pj. :)

Thank you, all.
 
I'm from New York and I can see that. Please disregard my earlier post. I apologize.

Apology graciously accepted -- thank you.

Is it terms or concepts?

1. Terms - AZ does not run the billiards world, and certainly not its forums. I did my due diligence on a term like "cling together" when I ran it by a master instructor. Basta! (Enough.)

2. Concepts - If it's concepts bring them on. That's how I learn. I don't mind constructive criticism. And I don't need to ever again cite authorities or credentials except to pj. :)

Thank you, all.

Ok, deal. At the moment, in my flurry of replying to you (in a stream-of-consciousness sort of way), I was singularly focused on one or two things, that hopefully by now, I've made clear to you.

I'll go back and re-read, again, the article and point out to you where I feel you either fell down in the due diligence category, or else are using terms that seem out of the blue and not in any way related to what's "normally" (i.e. generally accepted in the industry) seen in print to describe that same idea/concept/"thing."

Again, deal.
-Sean
 
Spidey, I've never told you how much I love your CTE extended circle post. I've loved that explanation since I read it. So clever.

With great power comes great responsibility. You know what I'm saying...

You know I was just busting your balls :)

I like your articles. Most of the people who knock you couldn't write a 5 paragraph essay.

I think if people would read and extrapolate what you're trying to say instead of reading your articles for technical preciseness and grading for such, they'd prob enjoy the read as well.
 
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I'll go back and re-read, again, the article and point out to you where I feel you either fell down in the due diligence category, or else are using terms that seem out of the blue and not in any way related to what's "normally" (i.e. generally accepted in the industry) seen in print to describe that same idea/concept/"thing."

No, no, please, sir, not terms. I won't argue them. I wouldn't want to waste your time. I just would like some solid opinions as to my thesis. If any of these points are non-standard terms, we could discuss that...

1. experienced players

2. who have reached a plateau in their games

3. after using ghost ball (classic g.b. pointing through center c.b. at center g.b.)

4. and reading materials that emphasize geometric aim without even mentioning CIT

5. would benefit from a more direct attack on the contact point with eyes and "cue pointing" (though we all know this undercuts)

And you know what, though? You'd be a great person to ask re: terms. I get lost sometimes with so many people using so many different abbreviations at AZ that frankly, I did see terms as evolving!
 
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You know I was just busting your balls :)

I like your articles. Most of the people who knock you couldn't write a 5 paragraph essay.

I think if people would read and extrapolate what you're trying to say instead of reading your articles for technical preciseness and grading for such, they'd prob enjoy the read as well.
No, actually I was serious. I bookmarked your extended circle a long time ago, I really mean it is clever and elegant... and I was joking back about CIA. I'd have to kill you, because you'd know and have the responsibility to know, with your great power...

I hate communicating by writing and not in person at times like these... sigh.

I really dig your stuff, man.
 
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Matt:
You started in on me with dozens of such “inaccuracies” in my Aim Primer series. I replied to all of them and then asked for facts. Still waiting on those from you.
Hope you brought a lunch. I said my piece; you said yours - we're miles apart still and I'm not interested enough to plow through all that in detail. If you want to pick a point you feel strongly about I might be interested enough to dicker about it.

Me:
Why not save us all a lot of time and just post a list of celebrity pool players you claim agree with you?
Ah, so it is jealousy?

Patrick, I live by a higher standard, a Christian standard...
Like that "jealousy" retort? Save your holier-than-thou "Christian standard" for somebody more easily impressed.

pj
chgo
 
Hope you brought a lunch. I said my piece; you said yours - we're miles apart still and I'm not interested enough to plow through all that in detail. If you want to pick a point you feel strongly about I might be interested enough to dicker about it.

That is obvious since I'm asking again for facts. Your first piece was 20 "Matt, you're wrong" statements and little of substance then or since then.

Like that "jealousy" retort? Save your holier-than-thou "Christian standard" for somebody more easily impressed.

I didn't mean a higher standard than you or anyone else. I meant in the "Hebrew National" TV commercial way. I answer to GOD.

And I didn't accuse you of jealousy. I asked you, which is why it ended with a question mark.

You keep bringing up the celebs, sir. I call them "playing pros and teaching pros" or "certified instructors".
 
I answer to GOD.
There you go namedropping again.

I didn't accuse you of jealousy. I asked you, which is why it ended with a question mark.
Is dishonesty a typical Christian virtue?

You keep bringing up the celebs, sir. I call them "playing pros and teaching pros" or "certified instructors".
Yeah, whatever. Your constant verbal tapdancing is tiresome and unlikable. Talk to GOD.

pj
chgo
 
I think if people would read and extrapolate what you're trying to say instead of reading your articles for technical preciseness and grading for such, they'd prob enjoy the read as well.

You got it! [Applause] Thank you.

By the way, I've often thought your avatar is one of the best, ever. I couldn't argue with R. Lee Ermey if I wanted to! Oops, another name drop...
 
You got it! [Applause] Thank you.

By the way, I've often thought your avatar is one of the best, ever. I couldn't argue with R. Lee Ermey if I wanted to! Oops, another name drop...

I told you he does not discuss things like a normal person :) when he is put under pressure he will try and manipulate the discussion and find a way out. Stay on course if you believe in yourself, these guys live for this kind of bs! :)
 
That is an excellent answer! I like it.

I have great student references I can give you ranging from beginners to pros. But I've never taught Michael Jordan to play pool, although he can play nicely. :)

I asked you for these references, you posted a link to your bio page:

Matthew Sherman..

Matt "Quick Draw" Sherman, author of several nonfiction books including the book and DVD combination Picture Yourself Shooting Pool, has appeared dozens of times in print media and on television promoting and teaching the sport of pool and other entertainment.

Experience:
Quick Draw has taught hundreds pool fundamentals and advanced techniques while directing leagues, tournaments, charity events and adult ed courses. He is a "pool physician," curing student faults in moments, who also innovates teaching tools. He offers free help online at About.com and travels widely for group and personal pool clinics.

Sherman is on the instructional staff for InsidePool Magazine, the billiards publication with the largest circulation, including three yearlong series, "The Year of Pro Secrets," "The 8-Ball Debates" and "Get In Shape". He has also appeared internationally on television and in print.

As an entertainer and emcee, Sherman has brought pool to CIA intelligence officers, movie actors, jazz singers and rock guitarists. He has appeared on NBC, ABC, CBS, Discovery, HGTV, VH-1, TNN, C-SPAN, and on radio, and has been quoted in the L.A. Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, Las Vegas Sun, New Orleans Times-Picayune, Parade Magazine, Time and Time Europe.

Sherman formerly directed the University of Florida's pool competition in Gainesville, Florida, which has produced six national champions.

You can also read more about Matt's current and past work on his Google Profile: Matt Sherman.


Education:
Sherman has worked with some of the top pool teachers in the world, including Donny "The Grumpy Old Coach" Lutz, who holds 50-plus years' experience on the tables and has recorded 200 pool league and tournament titles including 42 league MVPs. Lutz has been named to The Top 20 Pool Instructors.

Sherman and Lutz have paired to win five doubles titles and frequently pair to develop training methods and to help review and reform pool rooms.


From Matthew Sherman:
There are 54 quadrillion different pool shots you can make on any pool table--that's one mathematician's skilled estimate. But over and again in 35 years of shooting pool, I've encountered basic patterns, routines and shots to strengthen your game.

I love About.com and its chance to show you the innovations and classic strategies used to build pool champions for over a century. I'm your Guide to Pool and Billiards adding to your enjoyment of learning better pool. Thanks for taking your journey with me.


You know, I could go through this and dissect it easily picking out the statements which are untrue and commenting on the ones which are just silly to me.

But the one thing that comes to mind is that no where in this bio are any of the professional student references you said you could send. I assume at this point you meant that you CAN send them but that you REFUSE to. Because I took your statement above as an offer TO send them.

Lets be completely clear Mr. Sherman, your participation here is only to provide links back to your About.com pages. We have another instructor with no playing credentials to speak of who follows a similar tactic. The difference between you and that instructor is that this one has actual meaningful content worth linking to. Dr. Dave Alciatore has taken the time to film and analyze the physical actions in pool. He has authored several compendiums on how stuff works in pool and his information has been peer reviewed.

You, on the other hand, appear out of nowhere, with a DVD that you admit you did all the filming for in one day and picture book that you claim is groundbreaking information. You come to the number one forum on the internet for discussing pool to tell us about articles you have written, invite our criticism, and then argue when your information is not agreed with.

And no, you don't have to be a great player to be a great teacher. But for you to elevate yourself above the people who have been at this far longer than you, above the people who have undoubtedly trained more students than you, above the entire BCA coaching structure, and above all the good people here whom have years of debating minutia about the inner workings of pool, is to show extreme hubris.

Also, Mr. Sherman, I notice that you post a generous amount of backlinks to your articles. But I have not yet seen a single link to AZ Billiards, either to the main site or to the forums. If you are so meticulous about wanting to educate your readers wouldn't you also want to refer them to these forums and relevant discussions? Wouldn't you want to refer to them to the AZ Billiards main page?

Or is that against the policies of About.com? Only links in and not out?
 
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Hi Roadie:

You know, I could go through this and dissect it easily picking out the statements which are untrue and commenting on the ones which are just silly to me.

You are entitled. Spidey liked this page. :)

Please bear in mind the page is clearly marked "©2012 About.com. All rights reserved." You may take a brief excerpt for review but copying the whole page is not a good idea as About would need to charge AZ a fee for usage. Please be careful going forward.

But the one thing that comes to mind is that no where in this bio are any of the professional student references you said you could send. I assume at this point you meant that you CAN send them but that you REFUSE to. Because I took your statement above as an offer TO send them.

There is a limit on the length of the bio and specific standards at About. They are specific as a company regarding what gets posted and what doesn't. Sean pointed out I should do more research before moving in to teach, perhaps you might do the same with About.

I tend to get students the same way as other teachers, they come in because of site content or student references, not because of appeals to authority or certifications. I'd rather have them that way and I think the bio meets that expectation of mine.

You, on the other hand, appear out of nowhere, with a DVD that you admit you did all the filming for in one day and picture book that you claim is groundbreaking information.

I never said that. I never even said the Aim Primer or Contact Point articles were groundbreaking. I merely invited (civilized) discussion.

You come to the number one forum on the internet for discussing pool to tell us about articles you have written, invite our criticism, and then argue when your information is not agreed with.

So you'd prefer I not come to the forum? Or not defend my viewpoints? Which one? People like you are making the "number one forum" less well traveled by people who don't want to be bullied. I'm getting private messages at AZ from people who want my help to play better pool and from those who say, "Don't let the few jerks on here slow you down." Just saying. I like you well enough.

Further, I didn't come here to post backlinks and ads. There are subtler ways of doing so. I came with a few threads and said, "I'm open for business. Let's discuss."

Instead of reading between my lines like some other people, why not ask me direct or send a private message? Why say I'm arrogant. Is it arrogance to name a few players and teachers when someone says, "Ah, but you are a rogue on your own and don't check your work with standards." Untrue.

And no, you don't have to be a great player to be a great teacher. But for you to elevate yourself above the people who have been at this far longer than you, above the people who have undoubtedly trained more students than you, above the entire BCA coaching structure, and above all the good people here whom have years of debating minutia about the inner workings of pool, is to show extreme hubris.

How did I elevate myself above anyone? You're putting words in my mouth.

I said I am not certified by BCA because I cannot sign off on everything in their system. That's called integrity, not hubris. I've already explained that certification provides instructors with more possible income.

I'm sure you're aware that current certified BCA instructors feel the same way. Others have dropped BCA re-certification and are moving on to other realms.

Also, Mr. Shepard, I notice that you post a generous amount of backlinks to your articles. But I have not yet seen a single link to AZ Billiards, either to the main site or to the forums. If you are so meticulous about wanting to educate your readers wouldn't you also want to refer them to these forums and relevant discussions? Wouldn't you want to refer to them to the AZ Billiards main page?

Or is that against the policies of About.com? Only links in and not out?

I have thousands of links, you're being assumptive.

And no, if I am being meticulous about educating my readers I wouldn't send them to the flame wars where so many are rude to others and contradictory, even self-contradictory. Don't you understand how brave Dr. Dave is?

A lot of instructors, even BCA instructors, don't want to talk about aiming, at all, with anyone. There's so much aggression and confusion over the subject.

Everyone's brave on a forum. If I saw you in person, you would likely be far more courteous to me than you are being. I hope someday we can shoot pool together and chat, maybe even give each other lessons, but I expect respect from you as a person, regardless of whether you don't like my bio page.
 
Hi Roadie:



You are entitled. Spidey liked this page. :)

Please bear in mind the page is clearly marked "©2012 About.com. All rights reserved." You may take a brief excerpt for review but copying the whole page is not a good idea as About would need to charge AZ a fee for usage. Please be careful going forward.



There is a limit on the length of the bio and specific standards at About. They are specific as a company regarding what gets posted and what doesn't. Sean pointed out I should do more research before moving in to teach, perhaps you might do the same with About.

I tend to get students the same way as other teachers, they come in because of site content or student references, not because of appeals to authority or certifications. I'd rather have them that way and I think the bio meets that expectation of mine.



I never said that. I never even said the Aim Primer or Contact Point articles were groundbreaking. I merely invited (civilized) discussion.



So you'd prefer I not come to the forum? Or not defend my viewpoints? Which one? People like you are making the "number one forum" less well traveled by people who don't want to be bullied. I'm getting private messages at AZ from people who want my help to play better pool and from those who say, "Don't let the few jerks on here slow you down." Just saying. I like you well enough.

Further, I didn't come here to post backlinks and ads. There are subtler ways of doing so. I came with a few threads and said, "I'm open for business. Let's discuss."

Instead of reading between my lines like some other people, why not ask me direct or send a private message? Why say I'm arrogant. Is it arrogance to name a few players and teachers when someone says, "Ah, but you are a rogue on your own and don't check your work with standards." Untrue.



How did I elevate myself above anyone? You're putting words in my mouth.

I said I am not certified by BCA because I cannot sign off on everything in their system. That's called integrity, not hubris. I've already explained that certification provides instructors with more possible income.

I'm sure you're aware that current certified BCA instructors feel the same way. Others have dropped BCA re-certification and are moving on to other realms.



I have thousands of links, you're being assumptive.

And no, if I am being meticulous about educating my readers I wouldn't send them to the flame wars where so many are rude to others and contradictory, even self-contradictory. Don't you understand how brave Dr. Dave is?

A lot of instructors, even BCA instructors, don't want to talk about aiming, at all, with anyone. There's so much aggression and confusion over the subject.

Everyone's brave on a forum. If I saw you in person, you would likely be far more courteous to me than you are being. I hope someday we can shoot pool together and chat, maybe even give each other lessons, but I expect respect from you as a person, regardless of whether you don't like my bio page.

You are getting the respect you give. I am being courteous to you Mr. Sherman. Were I not then I would pick apart the content of your site.

Also you should really check yourself and the relevant laws governing forums which have user-generated content. Your blog posts are fair game to be used by any individual on any message board for the purpose of critique or parody under the Fair Use provision of the Copyright Act. This forum is protected against liability when the members are copying and pasting content from other sources under prevailing law. However IF you feel that your copyright or the copyright of About.com has been infringed upon and the use does not fall under the Fair Use provision of the Copyright Act then feel free to report it to the moderators at AZB or have About.com send a C&D or just file a lawsuit.

I am sure that About.com is ready to act on your behalf once they see this eggregious appropriation of "their" content. I'd get on that right away.

As for your use of this forum to tell us you are "open for business" we are telling you no thanks. Well some of us are. However it is a free forum and anyone can come here and promote their business. Generally people are a bit more subtle about it though.

Look you're the one who wrote a two part article claiming to have fixed something that you claim your competition didn't find in 15 years, with the implication being that this person had the same problem for 15 years and was actively trying to fix it. You are the one who used that to slam all the professional instructors and tout yourself.

And then you made another comment about your pet peeve being paying pros for instruction and then watching them hit balls for an hour. It's clear that you don't know many pros and haven't taken any lessons with them. I do know a lot of pros and have taken lessons with them and not a single one of them has done what you imply is prevalent.

And yes you have thousands of links so point me to the pages where you link to these forums and where you link to the main page or any pages at www.azbilliards.com I would be very happy to see you reciprocating with the links, you know in the interest of being part of the community and wanting to help people play better pool and all.......

And about being brave on the internet you can rest assured that were we to meet in person I would say the exact same thing to you in person. Nothing I have said is threatening or intended to be discourteous. The intent is to be frank with you as to how I feel about the tone you set and the way you present yourself and the information. As an author you have to learn to handle critique and live with what you write. Instead of choosing to be a harmonious part of the billiard community it is my opinion that the tone you set on your blog is a contentious one that ridicules the establishment. Well I am not one to say that the establishment is always right but when someone decides to debase and deride the status quo then they ought to have something as good or better to replace it with. So far I don't see a single thing in your writing that a beginning student of pool couldn't find elsewhere on the net and presented in a better way.

And the sad part is that the business model of a content farm like About.com is intended to pull views away from those other places which aren't focused on Search Engine Optimization to the content at About.com which is then surrounded by advertising which About.com makes money on. Therefore sadly the first contact a budding student of billiards might have is your articles which never (as far as I can tell) link to other places on the net unless it's an advertising partner of About.com. So that budding student gets trapped in your bubble until such time as they decide to search deeper. This isn't to say that all of your advice is bad. It's not. But what it is not truly intended for is to help people or there would be links to other sources.

I mean what can I expect when you, an uncertified instructor with no playing accomplishments of note, say this;

"I'm mad enough I could spit, but instead I'll just keep on compiling my list of stupid billiards myths.

After all, perhaps some of the "pool experts" out in the world, and many of them are not very good players besides uncertified teachers, keep passing along the same nonsense, over and again. If you read my answers to these myths, it should improve your game.

Wish me luck, I keep getting into debates with other instructors on these things, but I'm right. :)
" - http://billiards.about.com/b/2012/07/30/do-stop-believing-try-to-fight-this-feeling.htm

The thing is you write as if these concepts you call myths are etched in stone somewhere and we all worship them. Just because SOMEONE somewhere made a comment you don't agree with, whether they are right or not, doesn't make their comment a common sentiment shared by all. But when you write that you are busting the top 20 myths you make is sound like these are the worst things holding players back and you are the answer to that. Come on man, put your top 20 on AZB along with your answers and THEN you will see what's real and what isn't.
 
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That is obvious since I'm asking again for facts. Your first piece was 20 "Matt, you're wrong" statements and little of substance then or since then.



I didn't mean a higher standard than you or anyone else. I meant in the "Hebrew National" TV commercial way. I answer to GOD.

And I didn't accuse you of jealousy. I asked you, which is why it ended with a question mark.

You keep bringing up the celebs, sir. I call them "playing pros and teaching pros" or "certified instructors".

What's funny is that you do name-drop when it's convenient to attempt to convince us how much support you have from "credible" members of the billiard community but then in another breath you dismiss the accreditied members of the billiard community as being stuck in the past and not teaching properly. I am PRETTY sure that if an SPF instructor had written you a glowing endorsement then you'd be dropping their name along with the few others you have in your collection.

I have been on the Earth long enough and around the world enough times to recognize this type of ego-marketing. In Texas we say, big hat no cattle. And Ben Franklin famously wrote something like this, "many men attempt to live by their wits alone but htey break for want of stock'.

Now sir I am being discourteous but you can be assured I would tell you the same thing. Perhaps I will look you up on my next trip to New York. You will not know who I am so I will get the unvarnished Matt Sherman. Until then, may God be with you and answer all of your prayers. Or Joe Pesci because Joe Pesci get's crap done.
 
I can't read any more.

This is how Allison Fisher looks with almost every shot she shoots:

Allison-Fisher.jpg


This is how Ronnie O' Sullivan looks:

_41130746_gallery4.jpg


Darren Appleton:

rsz_img_2724.jpg


Shane Van Boeing:

shane-08texasopen.jpg


Matt Sherman:

basics24.jpg


After 8 pages on the stance - http://billiards.about.com/od/theclassicstroke/ss/01_01_07secret.htm - subtitled - The most important item in pool - opening statement is this:

"This may be the most important article you'll ever read as a pool player. Aligning your cuestick correctly, your body comfortable and head in place, (seeing the shot ahead accurately) is vital to your billiards success.

99% of casual players line up improperly at the pool table. Pictured here are the step-by-step wrong and right ways to stand to the pool table. To my knowledge, this information has never before appeared elsewhere."


Seriously????

Such an experience pool instructor as yourself has NEVER seen any information on the stance in print before? Never seen any video cover it?

Let me help you out - this is a youtube search on the stance, http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...50.3030.2-2j3j1j2.9.0...0.0...1ac.PQFtihVzwJE

Search term, billiard stance.

This guy does more in 10 minutes than you do in 100,000 words http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbmNcYH52eo&feature=player_detailpage#t=130s and his video has been seen more than a million times.

And here is a google search http://www.google.com/#hl=en&newwin...pw.r_qf.&fp=32098c1af2b0b80b&biw=1366&bih=587

Oh what a surprise, your articles are in the top two positions and likely to the be the first thing someone clicks on. I suppose that your hope is that players end up standing more like you and less like Allison?

Or like Steve Davis, who has videos on the stance freely available on YouTube:

steve-davis_01.jpg
 
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