Mosconi's 526

Bavafongoul said:
... In the national championship in 1950, Willie had a high run of 141 points (balls) in one (1) inning.........a record that still stands in tournament championship 14.1 pool. ...
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AtLarge said:
Hohmann and Ortmann, and maybe others, have exceeded 141 in tournament matches. Do you just mean in the final match of an event?
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DogsPlayingPool said:
Not saying your wrong but I don't recall either of those two guys doing it with a single inning at the table i.e. off the opening break leave. But I am surprised if this means that Willie as well as others from back then apparently haven't run 150 and out off the opening break in competition.
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PoolBum said:
Sigel ran 150-and-out in his first inning at the table against Mike Zuglan in the 1992 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship.
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Either Bavafongoul's statement is just wrong, or we don't understand exactly what he means.

As for Hohmann, I believe he still holds the record for high run in a "World" Championship, with 174 in a 200-point game in (I think) 2007.

Ortmann ran 150 and out off Earl Herring's opening break in the 2009 "World" Championship.

Immonen ran 150 and out in his second inning against Mike Sigel in the 2010 "World" Championship.
 
They can knock what they want Mosconi was the best player ever ( in my opinion) 526 still stands and don't matter if it was an 8 ft, 9 ft or a bar box.:thumbup:
 
At Large.......

I mean that the other guy played safe on the opening break in the straight pool (14.1) national championship and Willie went to the table and ran 141 balls straight......now the other guys don't even compete much in straight pool....the game is a dying art form.

See Below..............................



Beat Mosconi’s High Single Run of 526 Win up to $20,000 at CSI 14.1 High Run Contest at the BCAPL Nationals

"One of the festivities taking place during the BCAPL National 8-Ball Championships (May 11-22, 2011 at the Riviera Hotel & Casino, Las Vegas, NV) is a special 14.1 High Run contest. The contest will take place during the BCAPL event on two Diamond 9’ Pro Cut tables located in booths 30-32 in the Grande ballroom of the Riviera Convention Center.

The main contest will feature several divisions: pro, amateur men, amateur women, and amateur seniors. Each participant who signs up pays $20 for 4 turns at the table with their recorded run being an accumulation of their 4 turns. Each division will be awarded cash and prizes based on the top scores. The top eight highest accumulative scores will have a tournament on Saturday, May 21st. The goal of the CSI high run contest is to encourage more interest in the great game of Straight Pool.

In addition to the primary 14.1 contest is a very special opportunity. CSI will match up to the $10,000 (cash only) for a potential grand total of $20,000 to award to any player that beats or ties the Straight Pool single run record of 526 balls set by Willie Mosconi in 1954. The shooter who breaks or ties the record must do so in a single, not accumulative, run at the table. CSI will have set up the capability to record the contestants at the CSI 14.1 Contest."




No one has beaten Willie's high run of 526 (confirmed) or his one innning run of 141 balls.......dating back to 1912 when the 14.1 format for the national championship was first adopted.

Oh, by the way, Mika Immonen had the high run at the above event....113 balls......that's almost two whole racks less than Mr. Mosconi's tournament record of 141 balls pocketed consecutively.....and Williie's run was done in the US National Championship....not some glitzy, free money to win tournament in Las Vegas.

Heck, what did Mika have to lose if he didn't break Mosconi's high run record......NOTHING!.....But Mr. Mosconi accomplished the unthinkable while competing under the pressure of trying to win another one of his fifteen (15) consecutive national championships. And by the way, only the top 3 place swere paying in the National Tournament so if Willie came in
4th, he would have gotten zilch! nada! zippo!


I think that pretty much sums it up.................. "In Nomine Patris......aka Willie Mosconi.......Dominus Vobiscum!" NUF SED!
 
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Bavafongoul said:
I mean that the other guy played safe on the opening break in the straight pool (14.1) national championship and Willie went to the table and ran 141 balls straight......now the other guys don't even compete much in straight pool....the game is a dying art form.
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That is exactly what AtLarge was saying. I'm not sure how much you personally play 14.1 (I personally don't recall you posting or participating in the 14.1 forum here), but playing safe off of the opening break is the standard move.

In fact, Mike Sigel accomplished his 150-and-out against Mike Zuglan's safety off of the opening break in the 1992 US Open 14.1 Championships. This feat was even recorded:

http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/store.cgi?CMD=011&PROD=1181085191

Not sure what you're getting at with Willie's 141 off of the opening break being some unequaled feat. It certainly has been eclipsed, not only a couple times, but has even been recorded in a few cases.


Bavafongoul said:
See Below..............................
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See what? The CSI promotional advertisement for the 14.1 challenge, or your fanaticism for Willie below it?

Bavafongoul said:
Beat Mosconi’s High Single Run of 526 Win up to $20,000 at CSI 14.1 High Run Contest at the BCAPL Nationals

[...]
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??? Not sure why quoting CSI's advertisement promotional is supporting evidence?

Bavafongoul said:
No one has beaten Willie's high run of 526 (confirmed)
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That's certainly not disputed...

Bavafongoul said:
or his one innning run of 141 balls.......dating back to 1912 when the 14.1 format for the national championship was first adopted.
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...but the above part is.

Bavafongoul said:
Oh, by the way, Mika Immonen had the high run at the above event....113 balls......that's almost two whole racks less than Mr. Mosconi's tournament record of 141 balls pocketed consecutively.....and Williie's run was done in the US National Championship....not some glitzy, free money to win tournament in Las Vegas.

Heck, what did Mika have to lose if he didn't break Mosconi's high run record......NOTHING!.....But Mr. Mosconi accomplished the unthinkable while competing under the pressure of trying to win another one of his fifteen (15) consecutive national championships. And by the way, only the top 3 place swere paying in the National Tournament so if Willie came in
4th, he would have gotten zilch! nada! zippo!

I think that pretty much sums it up..................NUF SED!
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"Nuf sed" actually means "nothing was said." Not sure what your point here is. Noone's comparing Mika's "high run challenge" high run with a competitive tournament high run. As stated previously, Mike Sigel ran 150-and-out off of Mike Zuglan's opening safety break in the 1992 US Open 14.1 Championship. And it's on tape/DVD, too.

Your devotion and fanaticism towards Willie is admirable. Willie's on my shortest of short lists of all-time best players as well. But let's not let our fanaticism blind us with twisted "facts" that are blown out of proportion.

-Sean
 
Bavafongoul said:
I mean that the other guy played safe on the opening break in the straight pool (14.1) national championship and Willie went to the table and ran 141 balls straight....

...Mr. Mosconi accomplished the unthinkable while competing under the pressure of trying to win another one of his fifteen (15) consecutive national championships. ...
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Well, Willie's 141 on his first inning was certainly a fine accomplishment. But are you not understanding that the 141 has been surpassed? For one example, as I said in post #41 above, Ortmann ran 150 and out off Earl Herring's opening break in the 2009 "World" Championship.
 
Apparently My High Statement Is Flawed...

I don't know about this guy or that guy's name being thrown out with high runs of x back in 199_ etc are really of any cosequence. I say that because when you research the topic, Mosconi is always mentioned and these other guys aren't.....HMN....Interesting.

However, be that as it may.....I did just read that Danny Harriman is cited as having the new high run in straight pool (May 2011 - Las vegas) and there's film on You Tube. I was unaware of that and stand corrected.....Mr. Mosconi has lost one of his world records......bound to happen I suppose just like records in other sports also are eventually toppled.

Thanks for straightening me out.

Matt B.
 
Bavafongoul said:
I don't know about this guy or that guy's name being thrown out with high runs of x back in 199_ etc are really of any cosequence. I say that because when you research the topic, Mosconi is always mentioned and these other guys aren't.....HMN....Interesting.

However, be that as it may.....I did just read that Danny Harriman is cited as having the new high run in straight pool (May 2011 - Las vegas) and there's film on You Tube. I was unaware of that and stand corrected.....Mr. Mosconi has lost one of his world records......bound to happen I suppose just like records in other sports also are eventually toppled.

Thanks for straightening me out.

Matt B.
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First no one has run over 141 off the opening break and now Danny Harriman is the new World Record holder? OY VEY! :rolleyes:
 
Bavafongoul said:
However, be that as it may.....I did just read that Danny Harriman is cited as having the new high run in straight pool (May 2011 - Las vegas) and there's film on You Tube.
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Somebody better tell Schmitty about this, he might have a renewed interest in going after the record.
 
I happen to find it problematic that we sometimes forget to see records in their historic context.

Raymond Ceulemans, perhaps the greatest 3-cushion carom champion of all time, in fact, at least at one time (I don't have a recent copy to verify) the most successful sportsman of all time in any sport (not just cue sport!) according to the Guinness Book of Records, more or less quit on playing competitively several times after winning titles averaging about 1 per inning, then came back beating his competition averaging about 1.5, retiring again, and coming back later beating his competition averaging about 2. Please verify this in more detail if needed as I'm not a carom player, but I don't think my memory fails me here. What I'm trying to convey, however, is this: asked why he didn't play averages as high earlier in his career when he already had a stranglehold on the competition, indeed the discipline, e.g. winning the World title the first several times, he replied bluntly that he simply didn't need to.

Thus, having seen him in person (albeit past his prime, I've never seen a more natural and ambitious/driven - which with him seemed to be one and the same thing - Straight Pool player than him), my question is, ever wondered what WILLIE would be able to do if he were still around, in his prime, given the incentive (from what I've heard, he wasn't one to perform for glory alone), and using modern equipment?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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For those who missed a previous thread on this topic, here is a post by Ed Wiggins in which he has collected various info about the run including an article from National Billiard News and Mike Shamos's discussion of why this was a record and a little on why the Eufemia run was not recognized.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3175375&postcount=10

Among other things in the document is a sketch of the shot Mosconi missed to end the run.
 
Bob Jewett said:
For those who missed a previous thread on this topic, here is a post by Ed Wiggins in which he has collected various info about the run including an article from National Billiard News and Mike Shamos's discussion of why this was a record and a little on why the Eufemia run was not recognized.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3175375&postcount=10

Among other things in the document is a sketch of the shot Mosconi missed to end the run.
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Thanks for this.
 
Bob Jewett said:
For those who missed a previous thread on this topic, here is a post by Ed Wiggins in which he has collected various info about the run including an article from National Billiard News and Mike Shamos's discussion of why this was a record and a little on why the Eufemia run was not recognized.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3175375&postcount=10

Among other things in the document is a sketch of the shot Mosconi missed to end the run.
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It's strange that Shamos says Willie's autobiography claims the run of 526 ended by Willie quitting, not by a miss. In fact, the book says: "I finally missed a difficult cut shot, but by that time I was weary; it was almost a relief to have it come to an end."

I also wish Shamos had said more about why Eufemia's run "did not meet the standards for an exhibition high run record." From what I have read, it was a scheduled exhibition, on a 4 1/2 x 9 table, with a "standing-room only audience."
 
During the '60's & '70's I had the privilege of seeing Mosconi play exhibitions in the neighborhood of 25 times. Most of these were at the Lawrence Rec in Lawrence, Ma. He had an afternoon & evening exhibition there for many years. He also had some at Sandy's Bowling & Poolroom In Windham, NH.
Some oldtimers contend that Greenleaf was better & I can't comment on that because I never saw him but I'd be hard pressed to believe it. Willie Mosconi was the greatest straight pool player that ever lived IMO. And I don't see how anyone who ever saw him play even once could dispute that. If you look up the word perfection in the dictionary his picture should be there. I really don't know how to explain it so people can understand fully. You had to see it. And it was hard to believe it even then.
I've seen a lot great players in person & on video over the last 45 years & can say unequivocally that no one even comes close. Again, you just had to see it.
I don't care how many balls people run. It wasn't the running balls per se that stood out. It was the way he ran them. Effortlessly would be an understatement. Not only was every physical & technical aspect of his game flawless, it was his thought processes that set him apart. I hear a lot of commentators & also players say there's many different ways to run a rack of straight pool. That it's a matter of preference &/or style in many cases. I have the feeling Willie would disagree. Shot selection & the way you take the balls off the table is everything in 14.1 & Mosconi was head & shoulders above everyone in that regard. He made hard racks easy whereas a lot of the best players today do the opposite. Not knocking todays players, just saying that if you saw Mosconi play it would be very clear how everyone elses game is lacking when compared to his.
 
sparkle84 said:
During the '60's & '70's I had the privilege of seeing Mosconi play exhibitions in the neighborhood of 25 times. Most of these were at the Lawrence Rec in Lawrence, Ma. He had an afternoon & evening exhibition there for many years. He also had some at Sandy's Bowling & Poolroom In Windham, NH.
Some oldtimers contend that Greenleaf was better & I can't comment on that because I never saw him but I'd be hard pressed to believe it. Willie Mosconi was the greatest straight pool player that ever lived IMO. And I don't see how anyone who ever saw him play even once could dispute that. If you look up the word perfection in the dictionary his picture should be there. I really don't know how to explain it so people can understand fully. You had to see it. And it was hard to believe it even then.
I've seen a lot great players in person & on video over the last 45 years & can say unequivocally that no one even comes close. Again, you just had to see it.
I don't care how many balls people run. It wasn't the running balls per se that stood out. It was the way he ran them. Effortlessly would be an understatement. Not only was every physical & technical aspect of his game flawless, it was his thought processes that set him apart. I hear a lot of commentators & also players say there's many different ways to run a rack of straight pool. That it's a matter of preference &/or style in many cases. I have the feeling Willie would disagree. Shot selection & the way you take the balls off the table is everything in 14.1 & Mosconi was head & shoulders above everyone in that regard. He made hard racks easy whereas a lot of the best players today do the opposite. Not knocking todays players, just saying that if you saw Mosconi play it would be very clear how everyone elses game is lacking when compared to his.
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I have to agree. I saw him in an exhibition in the mid sixties. It was mesmerizing watching him play. Looked like he was incapable of making a mistake. :cool:
 
I don't care about the equipment used or how many times a guy cleans the balls during the run, 526 is a freakin' HUGE number to run in straight pool and I would love to see it happen in my lifetime. I don't think it would take anything away from Mosconi's run in the least.
 
Scott Lee said:
While Mosconi's skill on the table is beyond debate, his attitude left a lot to be desired. Many times he acted like an a$$hat.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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posts like this are the cancer that is killing AZB, nice input Scott, good job. Lets see what else useless shit we can dig up to knock someone in a irrelevant way.
 
Oh come on Eric. It's been documented by thousands of people (at least several dozen on here). It's no secret. I have a lot more respect for guys like Charlie Peterson and Jimmy Caras, who were also top players, really nice guys, and gave back plenty to the game, over the years.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Fatboy said:
posts like this are the cancer that is killing AZB, nice input Scott, good job. Lets see what else useless shit we can dig up to knock someone in a irrelevant way.
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