New Generation of Tables

[Island Drive]

Anyone know why, other than cost, tables made nowadays have no ball boxes or counters built into them? They're such useful tools when playing the variety of games our sport offers. I think it could even increase play time and interest, especially with veterans and beginners.

 

[wontonny]

I'm also surprised that Diamond tables don't have a bridge rack like on Gold Crowns.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I use a white board and colored markers.

 

[LHP5]

What I noticed in most pool halls I've been to is that the counters on the rails are either broken or the plastic covers that show the numbers are either scratched up or somehow not legible. Wear and tear would eventually make those unusable and probably not worth fixing. Just my guess though.

 

[hang-the-9]

Good question, I don't like the counters much, at least not in the GC design, they tend to snag clothing and catch cues if you are shooting over one.

I think they were removed from other tables because of that, but on the other hand, they could have designed a flush fitting counter.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Anyone know why, other than cost, tables made nowadays have no ball boxes or counters built into them? They're such useful tools when playing the variety of games our sport offers. I think it could even increase play time and interest, especially with veterans and beginners.

Counters on the rail were a lousy idea at the beginning and they remain a horrible thing to do to a table. I've got the scars on my right index finger to prove it. They were not made well to start with -- remember that Brunswick at the time of the Gold Crown design was not run by anyone interested in pool -- and they cheapened the over-all quality of the table. If you are playing a short race, coins are fine and in fact better than a score wheel which might accidentally move. A longer match (14.1) requires beads. In Europe it is common to have a scoring device on the wall.

I assume by "ball box" you mean the slots in the front of the table to keep track of who has what. I can see how a table designer who has no experience playing might not include them. They screw up the design lines. A competent designer would figure out a good way to include the function. The Diamond wire hopper is OK but it looks like a forgotten add-on.

 

[CreeDo]

those weird dials are a nightmare... especially since there seems to be no concensus on which way they should spin. Drives me nuts going the wrong direction over and over because I have years of conditioning to spin one way.

But, I do think it's handy to have SOMEthing built into the table. I often don't have any change in my pocket. Beads are cool looking and have that old-school nostalgia, but that's a lot of infrastructure and space taken up to accomplish a task that can be handled by 4 cubic inches of plastic.

What gets me is how badly designed some tables seem to be. It shouldn't take an engineering genius to figure out how to make a ball return system where balls don't plop onto the floor or get stuck half the time. How about rack holders that force the rack out at an angle so it bangs your shins? Pocket plastic that comes off, or has nails that wriggle out and tear up your hand?

I want to like diamond's deeply recessed horizontal rack holder, but it's completely invisible to a newbie, you have to stoop to spot it, and getting the rack back in there sometimes feels like trying to unlock my door while completely drunk.

 

[PGHteacher]

Counters on the rail were a lousy idea at the beginning and they remain a horrible thing to do to a table. I've got the scars on my right index finger to prove it. They were not made well to start with -- remember that Brunswick at the time of the Gold Crown design was not run by anyone interested in pool -- and they cheapened the over-all quality of the table. If you are playing a short race, coins are fine and in fact better than a score wheel which might accidentally move. A longer match (14.1) requires beads. In Europe it is common to have a scoring device on the wall.

I assume by "ball box" you mean the slots in the front of the table to keep track of who has what. I can see how a table designer who has no experience playing might not include them. They screw up the design lines. A competent designer would figure out a good way to include the function. The Diamond wire hopper is OK but it looks like a forgotten add-on.

I feel a little unworthy to disagree with someone of your knowledge & caliber and agree with you that I like beads much better than counters simply because they are easier and much faster to keep score especially in 14.1 but:
Well I find coins a little distracting and people are not careful with them, just my opinion.

Well I don't see why; again this is just my opinion but you don't know how many 100 balls you or your opponent ran or what 100 you or your opponent has? I find that a little hard to imagine. I used to play to 500 every year with a friend of mine and we used the counters d didn't have any problems, granted we are not 100 ball runners but how could one say "hey I ran 225 not 125" if you both were 100 ball runners (or better).

The maintenance guy helped me put up a string one year but some yahoo(s) knocked it down, we put them back up and the same thing happened (Dee's does not have the "upper class" clientele.)

 

[Island Drive]

I feel a little unworthy to disagree with someone of your knowledge & caliber and agree with you that I like beads much better than counters simply because they are easier and much faster to keep score especially in 14.1 but:
Well I find coins a little distracting and people are not careful with them, just my opinion.

Well I don't see why; again this is just my opinion but you don't know how many 100 balls you or your opponent ran or what 100 you or your opponent has? I find that a little hard to imagine. I used to play to 500 every year with a friend of mine and we used the counters d didn't have any problems, granted we are not 100 ball runners but how could one say "hey I ran 225 not 125" if you both were 100 ball runners (or better).

The maintenance guy helped me put up a string one year but some yahoo(s) knocked it down, we put them back up and the same thing happened (Dee's does not have the "upper class" clientele.)

Beads are great, but the drunks slam em and ALWAYS tear em up, that's a given. With table lights being on, you'd think a simple solar operated counter, flush with the head rail could be employed or something simple, and the ball boxes are a very useful tool for many games, expecially one pocket, banks and Cowboy pocket billiard with four players,. Its a pain to pick up and place balls on the floor for many reasons, or even placing em in the ball tray, or dumping em into the side pockets, there's gotta be a better way.

 

[RackemBilliards]

Scorekeeping

We have beads, styro balls really, for short races but they are no good for 14.1. When I ordered our Diamond Professionals, (2001), I said "and I want ball counters". Diamond said they don't offer ball counters, to which I replied 'really, then how do you play straight pool?' She said, 'straight pool?', 'nough said. We love the tables and made our own out of stained wood, rubber door stops, and circular counters we were able to buy. The trick is to find ones that roll the same way as the old Gold Crowns. Good luck with that...these days every one goes the other way. Not really sure why that changed. I, for one, used and liked the counters on the end of rails of the old tables. Still do.

 

[smoooothstroke]

Speaking for myself,I prefer drop pockets for all games and don't like stuff sticking up on the rail.Even the little Brunswick logo puts me on tilt LOL.

 

[Island Drive]

Counters on the rail were a lousy idea at the beginning and they remain a horrible thing to do to a table. I've got the scars on my right index finger to prove it. They were not made well to start with -- remember that Brunswick at the time of the Gold Crown design was not run by anyone interested in pool -- and they cheapened the over-all quality of the table. If you are playing a short race, coins are fine and in fact better than a score wheel which might accidentally move. A longer match (14.1) requires beads. In Europe it is common to have a scoring device on the wall.

Bob you know, in the pool rooms of today, the room owners would not spend the dollars to install wall mounted counters, and if so, they would get torn apart from the lack of whatever + alcohol. The one thing I truly liked about he GC I and GC II counters, the notches for each click were define and these earlier counters did not spin and loosen up quickly like the next generation, over seas made counters on the GC III etc. I truly hated the wrap around metal trim on the top rails as it always ground in that grey metal ''in'' to you clothes and if you propped your cue along the rail and it slid and hit the pocket iron trim it would cut into your shaft.
One more comment on the metal trim, Little Al Romero was a perfect example of this as he was short and ''always'' wore collared short sleeve shirts with his shirt tails hanging out. He not only wore the gun metal grey into his shirts, his shirt tails always had horizontal wear holes from practicing so much. I don't know of many players that practiced as much as that man in his day.