How do we all help improve the image of pocket billiards?

[smoooothstroke]

I too like the reality show idea but it won't help the image of pool as much as it may improve the pool economy or pools popularity.

I like the idea of a North American Pro League with a team in each participating city.The teams would be 2-4 men and 2 women with mixed scotch doubles as part of each match.It seams to me that getting sponsorship for a team would be doable and since each team would represent a city it could make it into the sports section of newspapers and onto the local news.

 

[thebaby]

My point of view.......

First let me say that i saw the heading of this post,right away i thought of how that heading went hand in hand with the biz i started last year. I own PLAY THE GAME clothing co. ,which specializes in billiard apparel. You can check it out for yourself at www.playthegameclothing.com . Iwas tired of the image that some of these clothing lines out there were giving the game. So i made a commitment to design a line of billiard apparel that not only the billiard community,but also the public would see thru our designs what a beautiful sport pool really is. CJ, you know me by our friendship on facebook. We have had 100% positive feedback with our line,and sales continue to grow at a rapid pace. My name is Frank nordmann,out of Sacramento, California. I'm 55 years old, been playing pool all my life. the game has been very good to me. Iv'e worked all my life and played pool all my life and raised my family. But as you know with age your ability seems to go down alittle. Anyway back to the topic of this discussion. I beleive it is going to take alot of work from the people who really have a respect for the game. As i do. I will continue to push my line out there ,and touch as many people as i can. So that they to will realize that they might be able to get involved in one capacity or another to improve the image that the game of pool has had for centurys. CJ,this next statement is directed towards you. You can get a hold of me either by facebook or private message me here. If i can help in anyway ,with the direction you want to go with this topic, and if you can find they answers your looking for ,please let me know . As i would love to be a part of it. Thank-you for reading this. I wrote this without reading all the posts on this topic, it's just that the title was exactly how i direct my clothing line. When you all get a chance ,feel free to look over my site , and see if you can tell the direction i'm trying to acheive with my line . I mean look at the image i'm trying to show, nothing else. THANK-YOU Frank

 

[CJ Wiley]

Play the Game Clothing - Helping to make Pool Better

First let me say that i saw the heading of this post,right away i thought of how that heading went hand in hand with the biz i started last year. I own PLAY THE GAME clothing co. ,which specializes in billiard apparel. You can check it out for yourself at www.playthegameclothing.com . Iwas tired of the image that some of these clothing lines out there were giving the game. So i made a commitment to design a line of billiard apparel that not only the billiard community,but also the public would see thru our designs what a beautiful sport pool really is. CJ, you know me by our friendship on facebook. We have had 100% positive feedback with our line,and sales continue to grow at a rapid pace. My name is Frank nordmann,out of Sacramento, California. I'm 55 years old, been playing pool all my life. the game has been very good to me. Iv'e worked all my life and played pool all my life and raised my family. But as you know with age your ability seems to go down alittle. Anyway back to the topic of this discussion. I beleive it is going to take alot of work from the people who really have a respect for the game. As i do. I will continue to push my line out there ,and touch as many people as i can. So that they to will realize that they might be able to get involved in one capacity or another to improve the image that the game of pool has had for centurys. CJ,this next statement is directed towards you. You can get a hold of me either by facebook or private message me here. If i can help in anyway ,with the direction you want to go with this topic, and if you can find they answers your looking for ,please let me know . As i would love to be a part of it. Thank-you for reading this. I wrote this without reading all the posts on this topic, it's just that the title was exactly how i direct my clothing line. When you all get a chance ,feel free to look over my site , and see if you can tell the direction i'm trying to acheive with my line . I mean look at the image i'm trying to show, nothing else. THANK-YOU Frank

Thanks Frank, I'm glad you're doing your part to help promote pool through your clothing line. It seems people are so programmed to just give ideas that it's difficult to stop and think about what they have done or what would do to help the Game of pool. It, like any sport/game needs actual people behind the scenes pushing it along and thanks, Frank, for being one of those people. I would be glad to talk to you about some things in the next couple of weeks. I'm doing a lot of filming at the moment and on an accelerated path to get my projects done by October 1, and it's coming fast. I want to get freed up so I can promote Professional Pool full time and that day is coming soon. Maybe we can talk the middle of this week or next if that's better. My weekends are busiest with filming. Thanks again for being a part of the "hidden team" that is doing their share and I, for one appreciate everyone like yourself that's put your work into making Pool better in your own way. I'll talk with you soon. CJ

 

[CJ Wiley]

2 enter, 1 may leave

I too like the reality show idea but it won't help the image of pool as much as it may improve the pool economy or pools popularity.

I like the idea of a North American Pro League with a team in each participating city.The teams would be 2-4 men and 2 women with mixed scotch doubles as part of each match.It seams to me that getting sponsorship for a team would be doable and since each team would represent a city it could make it into the sports section of newspapers and onto the local news.

They tried WORLD TEAM BILLIARDS back in the 90's and it didn't do that well..it was a City vs City format and it just didn't have the right kind of energy...Pool seems like an individual game, but I'm not sure what people think about teams.....maybe the 2 person Scotch Doubles you spoke about would be interesting.....I think it's more like boxing or wrestling, you only want 2 in the ring at a time.....and ONLY 1 may leave

 

[debyw]

I'd like to share what I am doing for pool

Hey CJ,
I'd like to keep this short, but I'm very passionate about pool/billiards and this is a broad subject.
Past projects: One of the founders of the northwest women's amateur tour originally called ACW and now called NWPA. Running strong for about 20 years.
Coordinated and ran the first ever Alaska State Championships
Taught billiards at the community college as a PE credit
Coordination of Pro Exhitibions

My current project as I think you are aware of, is Behind the Rock Tour. We are approaching the three year marker for this tour. We spent the first 1.5 yrs beta testing the format and handicapping system in the state of WA. The format allows pool rooms and players to combine efforts and work together as one. Players support the local pool rooms and the pool rooms are able to support the players with little out of pocket expense. We work together under one umbrealla.

As you know we have tweaked the format to playing 10 ball vs the Ghost applying our own scoring system to it. Each week we combine matches from any pool room with 9 foot tables in the USA and are soon to open a bar box division playing 9 ball vs the Ghost. We are also engaged in talks about going international. This format can be played simutaneousely world wide if you could imagine a world wide event. This is how it works.

When players complete thier matches they have a final score and stats. This score is then uploaded to our website by midnight every Saturday night. We close the tournament, calculate the tournament every Sunday and do payouts every Monday.

The player's scores then become part of the ranking system. Let me share why this is important. Without having a certified "Pro Tour" it's difficult to seperate the Pros from the amateurs. Having a ranking system that pros, semi-pros, amateurs and spectors understand divides the players according to skill level, like golf has done. Billiards can now be structured as an individual sport. When a player says my scratch score is a 180 everyone will know exactly what that means and a grooming ladder is now created. With the different divisions we find players start setting personal goals and start working towards achieving those goals. The only way for players to get paid is to bring the "A" game, improve and earn it. We all know the pros make this game look easy. This format educates amateurs and spectators to just how difficult it truly is.

With technology growing at the rate it is, we have embraced it and brought it into our tour. We use our website to monitor and calculate everything that happens in the tour. Weekly tournament results, players rankings for each division, players statistics and the best part about the tour is that it is transparent. All done with a dynamic database on the backend. All the money taken in is accounted for and reported to how it is paid out. Players know how many players played every week in each division, what was paid every week and their year to date earnings. Weekly reportings and postings on the website also allow us to brand the players and you know what I'm talking about there. Players go to the website weekly to find tournament results so this creates a lot of traffic which is perfect for advertising and branding.

We are currently talking with the colleges and also looking at opening a youth division. We all know the youth is the future of our sport which is why all the other sports embrace the youth. If players start in the grooming ladder early, like that which is done in other sports, our sport will grow and will come with some great players that have a bonafide pro tour to look forward to in their future. Parents will be more likely to support thier kids to come to our industry. If we have a structure with a grooming ladder and pro tour that players (not a handful, but many) can make a living participating in then is when our industry will move to the next level and I feel we can provide that.

I hope was the information you were looking for. If you or anyone else reading this forum would like to talk more about the tour and the future, feel free to contact me anytime. www.behindtherocktour.com.

Thank you for what you do to help promote the sport. Having great players being proacitive is what the industry desperately needs.

Best Regards,
Deby

 

[Yoda4962]

Some ideas for thought

Here are some things i didn't do, but will do next time.

1. I recently played in the Derby City, U.S Open, and the Tunica Southern, but in these tournaments - I saw no real local press coverage. I vow to make sure that I contact the local Tv and newspapers about any tournament that I attend in the future. It may not make much difference, but one has to try, right ?

2. I will no longer show up in shorts and a t shirt, and expect to be treated like a professional. !

3. I will continue to give away my time and free lessons to anyone that asks (in my home town).

4. This is BIG picture stuff..... I believe strongly in perceptions, meaning, that when the pro players start to act like pros, ( in manners, media, etc, etc), the world will start to believe that they are too, and will take notice.

5. The pool industry can continue to waste time and tread water, or we can just copy what the golf and tennis world is doing. Do we want to be right, or do we want to be successful ? We need pro-am day at every tournament, we need charity sponsorship at every tournament, and we need to get rid of ESPN. ESPN is killing pool with their desire to have professional players show up and play kiddy games just because they are fast !!!

6. Finally, if you have an idea on what we need to do,, then let me know,, because i'm ready to get this sport thriving , and get it out of the gutter !!!

 

[buska95]

We are currently working on a stream in the northeast and also working currently on a reality tv show based on pool. I have run large tournaments and pool leagues in the past and intend to do so again. also working on a pool room in the northeast.

 

[AtLarge]

They tried WORLD TEAM BILLIARDS back in the 90's and it didn't do that well..it was a City vs City format and it just didn't have the right kind of energy...Pool seems like an individual game, but I'm not sure what people think about teams.....maybe the 2 person Scotch Doubles you spoke about would be interesting.....I think it's more like boxing or wrestling, you only want 2 in the ring at a time.....and ONLY 1 may leave

I'm glad to hear that you view pool as more of an individual game than one for teams. I hope whatever you are working on or thinking about for the future of pro pool emphasizes the former rather than the latter.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm glad to hear that you view pool as more of an individual game than one for teams. I hope whatever you are working on or thinking about for the future of pro pool emphasizes the former rather than the latter.

Except maybe a doubles thing of some kind (similiar to tennis). Four personalities instead of two could foster some interaction. Instead of alternatiing shots, maybe a rule where the partner has to shoot at least two shots other than the break. (with a shot clock & no extensions or time outs)
Just a quick thought. Not completely thought out.

 

[Snapshot9]

Your enthusiasm is encouraging, but

as someone who has attended graduate school twice, you have to solve the problem from the 'top down', not from the bottom up.

To do that:
1) A National Professional group that governs all cuesports in the USA has to be established. To do this, you would need experienced and knowledgeable candidates, for example, Jay Helfort, Mark Wilson, Mark Griffin, Mike Page, and several others to 'step up' and take action to get it done. I, myself, would be willing to help achieve this, I have played 50 years, have multiple college degrees, and was an IT professional for over 30 years.

This group would then establish goals and timelines for achieving those goals.
They would develop codes of conduct and preferred dress codes.
They would promote and cooperate in the establishing of Jr. Leagues and competition.
They would work to get Pool into to High School agendas by establishing inter High School competition.
They would work on getting Pool into the Olympics.
They would work to establish a Pro tour with decent payouts.
They would be the ultimate say-so over amateur tours and events.
They could define different existing levels of Poolplayers.

My question is, and to you to C.J., is why these qualified people won't step up to get something that is definately good for the sport done? Ever
hear the old saying, if you want something done, you have to do it yourself?

*****ing about the problems that exist at the lower and lowest levels does nothing for the sport. I might add that I have quite a few ideas to achieving some of the goals above. We have to have unity to elevate our sport.

 

[CJ Wiley]

creating pool's public relations system

Here are some things i didn't do, but will do next time.

1. I recently played in the Derby City, U.S Open, and the Tunica Southern, but in these tournaments - I saw no real local press coverage. I vow to make sure that I contact the local Tv and newspapers about any tournament that I attend in the future. It may not make much difference, but one has to try, right ?

2. I will no longer show up in shorts and a t shirt, and expect to be treated like a professional. !

3. I will continue to give away my time and free lessons to anyone that asks (in my home town).

4. This is BIG picture stuff..... I believe strongly in perceptions, meaning, that when the pro players start to act like pros, ( in manners, media, etc, etc), the world will start to believe that they are too, and will take notice.

5. The pool industry can continue to waste time and tread water, or we can just copy what the golf and tennis world is doing. Do we want to be right, or do we want to be successful ? We need pro-am day at every tournament, we need charity sponsorship at every tournament, and we need to get rid of ESPN. ESPN is killing pool with their desire to have professional players show up and play kiddy games just because they are fast !!!

6. Finally, if you have an idea on what we need to do,, then let me know,, because i'm ready to get this sport thriving , and get it out of the gutter !!!

You have a productive attitude and that's what I'm looking for. You ARE RIGHT that there is no Public Relations being done like there was in the 90's and if someone doesn't do it obviously it doesn't get done. The reason for pool's demise is not that big of a mystery to me. It's a simple "out of sight, out of mind" problem, so the solution is to put it IN SIGHT and IN MIND.... in this modern age there's a lot we can individually do to help get the thought of playing pool out and into the public consciousness....Please send me a private message and tell me what your capabilities and thoughts are and we'll start moving forward....Again, I would like to hear from anyone that has or will do something to promote Pocket Billiards in your local area.....'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

'The Master Game' is putting the team together 'The Game is the Teacher'

as someone who has attended graduate school twice, you have to solve the problem from the 'top down', not from the bottom up.

To do that:
1) A National Professional group that governs all cuesports in the USA has to be established. To do this, you would need experienced and knowledgeable candidates, for example, Jay Helfort, Mark Wilson, Mark Griffin, Mike Page, and several others to 'step up' and take action to get it done. I, myself, would be willing to help achieve this, I have played 50 years, have multiple college degrees, and was an IT professional for over 30 years.

This group would then establish goals and timelines for achieving those goals.
They would develop codes of conduct and preferred dress codes.
They would promote and cooperate in the establishing of Jr. Leagues and competition.
They would work to get Pool into to High School agendas by establishing inter High School competition.
They would work on getting Pool into the Olympics.
They would work to establish a Pro tour with decent payouts.
They would be the ultimate say-so over amateur tours and events.
They could define different existing levels of Poolplayers.

My question is, and to you to C.J., is why these qualified people won't step up to get something that is definately good for the sport done? Ever
hear the old saying, if you want something done, you have to do it yourself?

*****ing about the problems that exist at the lower and lowest levels does nothing for the sport. I might add that I have quite a few ideas to achieving some of the goals above. We have to have unity to elevate our sport.

The purpose of this post was not to wonder why others won't do things it's just to identify those that will. The common denominator that I hear constantly is what other people "should do"....I'm in contact with about 70,000 people a week myself and this is growing. Once I secure a TV Station this number will rise to over a million and I need assistance to grow this to where it need to be 10,000,000 ... and this is just through my group's efforts.....by this time there will be more players than just me PROMOTING, they just need to be shown what to do and how to do it....We are though with the "planning stage", now comes the action...I'm interested in teaming up with action "get it done" type people....You seem to be one of them and I'm eager to find out more about you in a message ...CJ Wiley https://www.facebook.com/CJ.WILEY7

 

[CJ Wiley]

ESPN is not responsible ....it's not their business

Here are some things i didn't do, but will do next time.

1. I recently played in the Derby City, U.S Open, and the Tunica Southern, but in these tournaments - I saw no real local press coverage. I vow to make sure that I contact the local Tv and newspapers about any tournament that I attend in the future. It may not make much difference, but one has to try, right ?

2. I will no longer show up in shorts and a t shirt, and expect to be treated like a professional. !

3. I will continue to give away my time and free lessons to anyone that asks (in my home town).

4. This is BIG picture stuff..... I believe strongly in perceptions, meaning, that when the pro players start to act like pros, ( in manners, media, etc, etc), the world will start to believe that they are too, and will take notice.

5. The pool industry can continue to waste time and tread water, or we can just copy what the golf and tennis world is doing. Do we want to be right, or do we want to be successful ? We need pro-am day at every tournament, we need charity sponsorship at every tournament, and we need to get rid of ESPN. ESPN is killing pool with their desire to have professional players show up and play kiddy games just because they are fast !!!

6. Finally, if you have an idea on what we need to do,, then let me know,, because i'm ready to get this sport thriving , and get it out of the gutter !!!

ESPN isn't having anyone show up and play "kiddy games"...this is being promoted by real people...ESPN is not in the business of doing anything with pool and never will be...without people from the pool world assisting them you would never see one pool ball hit on ESPN in any way, shape or form.....ESPN is in the business of SELLING, not promoting 3rd level sports.

 

[1on1pooltournys]

as someone who has attended graduate school twice, you have to solve the problem from the 'top down', not from the bottom up.

To do that:
1) A National Professional group that governs all cuesports in the USA has to be established. To do this, you would need experienced and knowledgeable candidates, for example, Jay Helfort, Mark Wilson, Mark Griffin, Mike Page, and several others to 'step up' and take action to get it done. I, myself, would be willing to help achieve this, I have played 50 years, have multiple college degrees, and was an IT professional for over 30 years.

This group would then establish goals and timelines for achieving those goals.
They would develop codes of conduct and preferred dress codes.
They would promote and cooperate in the establishing of Jr. Leagues and competition.
They would work to get Pool into to High School agendas by establishing inter High School competition.
They would work on getting Pool into the Olympics.
They would work to establish a Pro tour with decent payouts.
They would be the ultimate say-so over amateur tours and events.
They could define different existing levels of Poolplayers.

My question is, and to you to C.J., is why these qualified people won't step up to get something that is definately good for the sport done? Ever
hear the old saying, if you want something done, you have to do it yourself?

*****ing about the problems that exist at the lower and lowest levels does nothing for the sport. I might add that I have quite a few ideas to achieving some of the goals above. We have to have unity to elevate our sport.

Too many egos and too political. That is major problem. We have CSI, USAPL, BCA, Dragon Promotions, WPA, and numerous other independents that push and pull from one another making it impossible for unity.

This is just a quick response and the way I've seen it, along with pros and the likes in the industry.

 

[LNCPA]

A lot of the top pros (i.e. Corey, Johnny Archer) have learned to dress the part. Just look at CJ in his avatar picture. He really looks sharp. That's just a start.

The sport needs more TV coverage with commentators that know how to make it interesting and provide good (correct) inside knowledge about what is going on, what the players are thinking and the problems they are facing with each situation. Showing the players away from the table doing some good for the world making a difference in the lives of folks less fortunate to help change the image of "pool hustlers". Pool is not a great spectator sport but golf can be boring too. They make it interesting.

You need to attract big money sponsors. Traditionally companies that make beer have been the natural fit as far as sponsors go but not all pros drink alcohol. Bring in some other companies that sell other products. For example golf uses car makers. Most pool players drive cars too!

Sorry for all the golf comparisons but once upon a time pro golfers were struggling financially, were thought of as hustlers and managed to change all of that.

 

[MaryAvina.com]

Endless Possibilities, it's Who I Am and What I Do. Mary Avina

I've tested the water the last year and heard all the negative "we can't do it because of blah, blah, blah" and I appreciate everyone's honest input.....Now I want to talk to You that believe IT CAN BE DONE and are more "solution oriented"....what deligence can we individually do to achieve our common goal: IMPROVING THE IMAGE AND POPULARITY OF POCKET BILLIARDS.....I believe it would benefit All of us in the Industry to join together for this common goal...Please be "solution oriented" What have you done or what would you be willing to do to help promote pool? I'm really not looking for ideas about what others could do....I want to know what YOU CAN DO or HAVE DONE in the past.

I am including a YouTube video of one of the positive public relations promotions done in the past Now that I'm back involved with Professional Pool full time I want to do More for the Game than before...much more..."THE GAME IS THE TEACHER" thanks in advance C J Wiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj5ZV3sSc6g&feature=plcp

I believe in Positively Promoting Pocket Billiards! To me it's a Vibrant Game and Challenging Sport with Endless Possibilities, it's Who I Am and What I Do.

Promoting the game by spreading the Positive Image of Billiards thru Pool Websites, YouTube, Facebook pages and in my personal life. My confirmed weekly reach is 33,873. The confirmed Monthly reach is 135,492. For the last 365 days my confirmed reach has been 1,519,011.

These figures are statistically generated from Facebook Pages, YouTube and Google Searches, their synergistic reach is OVER Three Million People a Year, contributing to 12 Websites a year with Positive Pool Content and also doing Trick Shot Shows & Teaching Beginner to Intermediate Players. I am also working on other DVD's as well.

I Promote with the idea that pool can one day gain popularity like other sports and games when WE with Vision Team Together as Ambassadors for Billiards.

A Dozen Trick Shots with Mary Avina pool snooker

Three Fundamental 9-ball shots Avina

The 10 by 5 Snooker Table with Mary Avina

Champion trick shot artists demonstrate their skills

More Videos

http://www.facebook.com/Mary.Avina.TrickShotPrincess

 

[manwon]

I've tested the water the last year and heard all the negative "we can't do it because of blah, blah, blah" and I appreciate everyone's honest input.....Now I want to talk to You that believe IT CAN BE DONE and are more "solution oriented"....what deligence can we individually do to achieve our common goal: IMPROVING THE IMAGE AND POPULARITY OF POCKET BILLIARDS.....I believe it would benefit All of us in the Industry to join together for this common goal...Please be "solution oriented" What have you done or what would you be willing to do to help promote pool? I'm really not looking for ideas about what others could do....I want to know what YOU CAN DO or HAVE DONE in the past.

I am including a YouTube video of one of the positive public relations promotions done in the past Now that I'm back involved with Professional Pool full time I want to do More for the Game than before...much more..."THE GAME IS THE TEACHER" thanks in advance C J Wiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj5ZV3sSc6g&feature=plcp

I personally think the answer is very simple, everything is based upon the action of the players. I am not only talking about the Pro-players, I am also talking about the short stops. If these people made themselves more available and set the example to follow a very large number of the lower level players would follow that example.

A good place to start would be the organized Pool leagues since they current make up the largest group of pool players in the country. While they are certainly centered around drinking and bars it doesn't mean that bad behavior should be tolerated. In addition the Pro-players should do a great deal more than they currently do to support these leagues. These are the people who buy most of the products that the Pro's promote, and in many cases these are also the people who pay their money to go to tournaments to watch the pro-players play.

I think for to many people are not willing to do their part to improve this sport unless their is a pay check involved. But when it comes to pay checks there are two kinds immediate cash in hand or the kind of cash that comes with an investment over time.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I believe in Positively Promoting Pocket Billiards! To me it's a Vibrant Game and Challenging Sport with Endless Possibilities, it's Who I Am and What I Do.

Promoting the game by spreading the Positive Image of Billiards thru Pool Websites, YouTube, Facebook pages and in my personal life. My confirmed weekly reach is 33,873. The confirmed Monthly reach is 135,492. For the last 365 days my confirmed reach has been 1,519,011.

These figures are statistically generated from Facebook Pages, YouTube and Google Searches, their synergistic reach is OVER Three Million People a Year, contributing to 12 Websites a year with Positive Pool Content and also doing Trick Shot Shows & Teaching Beginner to Intermediate Players. I am also working on other DVD's as well.

I Promote with the idea that pool can one day gain popularity like other sports and games when WE with Vision Team Together as Ambassadors for Billiards.

A Dozen Trick Shots with Mary Avina pool snooker

Three Fundamental 9-ball shots Avina

The 10 by 5 Snooker Table with Mary Avina

Champion trick shot artists demonstrate their skills

More Videos

http://www.facebook.com/Mary.Avina.TrickShotPrincess

Ms. Avina,

On second thought I'll send you a PM.

 

[Celophanewrap]

Hey CJ, I just had a thought, I'm sure you've been through this before but just in case. Pretty much I think we're all in agreement that pool needs to grow and needs a, or several financial resource(s). Someone that might be able to get behind it and and be vocal and enthusiastic. Someone successful that might lend some credibility and possibly draw other suitors. You're there in Dallas, has you or anyone else ever thought to contact Mark Cuban regarding any of this? I don't know him. Just by what I've read but I gather that he's a younger man and likes to have fun, maybe this something he'd be interested in

 

[Paul Schofield]

For starters: Pocket Billiards needs to get the hell away from bar-pool if it wants to go anywhere. Just give it up. Stop trying to ride on the back of the success of miniature pool. It's not working. Bar pool has its own venue (corner bar), its own game, and its own demographic. Bar-pool will never have a highly regarded image or gain the respect that you folks are talking about.