I just saw a picture of you and Bobby Madrid on your website. Can you tell me when and where that picture was taken? I haven't seen him in years years.
How do we all help improve the image of pocket billiards?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
It can be attacked much like a political campaign. I mentioned a PR firm representing the industry. This can be done by the industry themselves but it would be harder. For example, when the US open is being played. You need someone with the juice to get players on every TV talk show from Letterman to Kelly. Even though this will for the most part not really directly effect the US Open tournament it places the sport in the public consciousness. People will want to know who won and possibly even be spurred to want to see a local tournament.
It does not happen over night it needs to be, if I can put it this way, shoved down their throats. Make pool the American background of our lives. Sell it as an American sport and pass time played by many respected people. You have to sell it like you would any other product. I can see a TV commercial selling the sport and at the end suggesting to find your local billiard establishment and get started in this great family activity. This takes money as you said, but that is where my political comment comes from. There is a lot more money around then it may appear. There needs to be an organization made up of retailers, players, and even fans that will pay a certain amount annually to be a member. That is a lot of money, think "NRA" or "AARP" if you want a model to look at.
This money goes towards tournaments and the overall promotion of the sport. I am sure millions of dollars a year can be easily generated for the efforts. I know the BCA now exists but I am afraid if they are doing any of what I was just referring to they sure keep it a secret. Just with the people on this board there are thousands of potential members. I am just brainstorming but models for such an pool organization are everywhere. There is no need to even reinvent the wheel and it could happen in this day and age faster then any other time in history.
The Creme de la creme would be a time when celebrities would lend their names and support to the sport. We already know many play quite seriously. Imagine the Michael Douglas 9-ball open or the "Jerry Orbach" memorial straight pool championship attended and supported by other celebrities who love the game. And of course Joe Rogan you get the idea.
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In reading some other threads, a lot of people seem to think that gambling is the way to help pool revitalize and improve its image. What's your take on that?
I agree with you. I do the same things. ALL of US should be doing these types of things & WE would then have a 'grass roots' movement to give back to the game we love.
Once again Bruce, you show your own shortsightedness. If those organizations did not exist there would be NO pool at all today. 
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Shane Van Boening offers a clue.
Good question, CJ, but it looks like most responders still haven't understood what you've asked. To clarify a little, let me offer a quote from JFK (and butcher it a bit): "Ask not what your sport can do for you, ask what you can do for your sport."
BullShooters in Phoenix is a place that has 40 pool tables and around 300 weekly league players. Shane Van Boening has been coming into BullShooters every day this past week. Interestingly enough, less than 10% of those players had ever heard of Shane before, and had no clue that he is America's #1 ranked player.
This event pointed out a blaring truth to me: those of us who are in "the know" in pool, do a poor job of sharing with others. Apparently, we don't talk about pro players with our friends and other amateur players. We don't personally do anything to build heroes and role models, or point to examples of higher competiive play.
So, here's what I decided to personally do about this episode with Shane: I took some pictures of him, and I'm going to send them to our local billiards newspaper along with a short story about his visit. It's no big thing, but it's something I have the capability of doing, and I think it's something that just about anyone else could do, too.
There's one other project I'm currently working on. I recently learned that Phoenix has been awarded a team in the WPBL (World Professional Billiard League), so I'm writing an announcement of this fact for our local billiards newspaper, also. Once our team players become known, the next step will be to alert the local mainstream media that we have a professional team in town and see if we can get some real news coverage out of it.
Roger
Good question, CJ, but it looks like most responders still haven't understood what you've asked. To clarify a little, let me offer a quote from JFK (and butcher it a bit): "Ask not what your sport can do for you, ask what you can do for your sport."
BullShooters in Phoenix is a place that has 40 pool tables and around 300 weekly league players. Shane Van Boening has been coming into BullShooters every day this past week. Interestingly enough, less than 10% of those players had ever heard of Shane before, and had no clue that he is America's #1 ranked player.
This event pointed out a blaring truth to me: those of us who are in "the know" in pool, do a poor job of sharing with others. Apparently, we don't talk about pro players with our friends and other amateur players. We don't personally do anything to build heroes and role models, or point to examples of higher competiive play.
So, here's what I decided to personally do about this episode with Shane: I took some pictures of him, and I'm going to send them to our local billiards newspaper along with a short story about his visit. It's no big thing, but it's something I have the capability of doing, and I think it's something that just about anyone else could do, too.
There's one other project I'm currently working on. I recently learned that Phoenix has been awarded a team in the WPBL (World Professional Billiard League), so I'm writing an announcement of this fact for our local billiards newspaper, also. Once our team players become known, the next step will be to alert the local mainstream media that we have a professional team in town and see if we can get some real news coverage out of it.
Roger
I go down to my local Boys and Girls Club a couple of times a year to find out what they need in terms of gear & supplies, order some stuff and have it sent to them. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet because I know I'm not the only one here that does that, but maybe I missed it.
I'll have my lathe set up soon and then I'll be able to maintain their cues and put tips on.
I'll have my lathe set up soon and then I'll be able to maintain their cues and put tips on.
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And where is everyone going to play? Pool's image is mostly a local perspective. A bar is not a sports venue. Think about the "family environment" at your corner bar. Further more, there are not many pool rooms left. Think about people with fresh interest going into one of the ones that are left.
Pool has to be well defined and have a solid foundation in order to implement an effective PR program.
just last night I got into a rather long 9 ball match and tow couples were sitting at the table next to us watching and just talking.
One of them seemed to be the expert on almost everything and began telling a story about an incident in one of the older local pool rooms.
he told of a guy walking in and getting into a game, stalling and hustling, only to beat two local guys out of several thousand when he was pulled into the parking lot were he got both his thumbs broken. I began to laugh when he asked what was so funny. i replied with the fact that I have been hearing that story since about about 1964 and it was just a story then, but never seems to go away. his date began to laugh and asked me then how many broken thumbs I had seen over the years to which I replied, none.
Walter Tevis had a profound influence on our game but, not the one he wanted.
I quit hiding what I like to do, like it's some kind of indecent act. When co-workers ask me what I'm up to tonight, I tell them--and answer all their questions about it. I used to get a lot of flack from my bosses about it (it wasn't considered a respectable past time for a young Army officer), but now I'm the boss and I don't care what folks think. And after the initial back and forth about it, I've gotten several to join me.
As someone else said, the fastest way to get a new pool mania started is a good movie or better yet, REALITY TV SHOW. I can't believe someone hasn't done it yet. It writes itself.
As someone else said, the fastest way to get a new pool mania started is a good movie or better yet, REALITY TV SHOW. I can't believe someone hasn't done it yet. It writes itself.
You just do it and keep doing it to raise the profile of the sport. It will have an effect to existing business. You do it like sort of like the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints". You just keep throwing it out there. Your comment relates to today only, plans have to have longer term time tables, it take a decade for any real noticeable effects. If no one ever does anything then there is a guarantee things will only get worse.
It is in the best interest of people who have invested in the billiard industry be they pool room owners, manufacturers, players or even fans. That is the great thing about pool, it can be played at home with a home table the same quality the pros play on. You can't own a bowling alley or golf course but you can have a billiard room in your home. There is no down side to the billiard industry raising the profile of the game. The story in Ironman's post is a good example of the vacuum the game exists in and the mystery that surrounds it.
Pool and gambling
A lot of people confuse 'gambling' with match play.
I definitely believe in match play - but actual gambling is impossible to capture or promote.
Often happens with no advance warning etc.
The new TAR format is match play - but much easer to promote and control things like rules and appearance etc.
Money needs to be involved, but not necessarily the main draw. For instance, although not hidden, the cash prizes in tennis or golf events is not promoted and it has not hurt their growth.
I think gambling has its place. I do not think gambling taints the game. I wish we had all the color of yesteryears top players. They were much more promotable.
Mark griffin
A lot of people confuse 'gambling' with match play.
I definitely believe in match play - but actual gambling is impossible to capture or promote.
Often happens with no advance warning etc.
The new TAR format is match play - but much easer to promote and control things like rules and appearance etc.
Money needs to be involved, but not necessarily the main draw. For instance, although not hidden, the cash prizes in tennis or golf events is not promoted and it has not hurt their growth.
I think gambling has its place. I do not think gambling taints the game. I wish we had all the color of yesteryears top players. They were much more promotable.
Mark griffin
Affiliated companies
These are companies that are affiliated with CSI (CueSports International)
TAR is The Action Report. We do PPV match play. We have done 29 matches plus many tournaments like US Bar Table, US Open 10-Ball and One Pocket. Way over $500,000 has been awarded.
Diamond refers to Diamond Billiard Products. I am a partner. We do the Derby City Classic and Southern Classic. We provide the tables for most all the major events in US and many international.
6 pocket is a game similar to straight pool. Very easy to rate a player's speed. We are planning some events with the finals to be at our BCAPL nationals at the Rio (Vegas) in July 2013. This is affiliated with CSI.
Texas Bumps is a new game that is designed for the beginner to the pro. It s a social game. More to come- but plans are to have some $$$ events at the Rio in July 2013. Joe Tucker is also affiliated. This game has potential.
I just thought I would add some of the things we are involved with - and somebody noticed!!!
Hope that helps.
Mark Griffin
These are companies that are affiliated with CSI (CueSports International)
TAR is The Action Report. We do PPV match play. We have done 29 matches plus many tournaments like US Bar Table, US Open 10-Ball and One Pocket. Way over $500,000 has been awarded.
Diamond refers to Diamond Billiard Products. I am a partner. We do the Derby City Classic and Southern Classic. We provide the tables for most all the major events in US and many international.
6 pocket is a game similar to straight pool. Very easy to rate a player's speed. We are planning some events with the finals to be at our BCAPL nationals at the Rio (Vegas) in July 2013. This is affiliated with CSI.
Texas Bumps is a new game that is designed for the beginner to the pro. It s a social game. More to come- but plans are to have some $$$ events at the Rio in July 2013. Joe Tucker is also affiliated. This game has potential.
I just thought I would add some of the things we are involved with - and somebody noticed!!!
Hope that helps.
Mark Griffin
Oh, thanks
I thought the entire statement together meant something.
I do know who TAR and Diamond are.
6 pocket and Texas Bumps is new to me.
Thanks,
Mark in Houston
I thought the entire statement together meant something.
I do know who TAR and Diamond are.
6 pocket and Texas Bumps is new to me.
Thanks,
Mark in Houston
Roger is the "sample example"...The Game is the Teacher
That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about Roger....you see in the early 90's when I started playing most of the PRO TOUR events we had several outstanding "self promoters", Jeanette Lee, Earl Strickland, Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, etc. and really the whole Ladies Tour (WPBA) as well....we all in effect were synergistically PROMOTING POOL the best way possible - Through ourselves. The fact is people don't just like games and sports, but really the key is the emotional attachment to the People that play them.
Imagine if hundreds of people did what you are doing Roger? I'm convinced if those us that truly want pool to be more like we've always imagined. We can do it if we all do our portion, no matter how big or how small....it's the intention in life that gets powerful, when everyone's common goal is the same magical things happen. And it's nice to be a small part of something that can end up being so powerful. I'm glad to have the opportunity to do my part and I appreciate you, Roger, doing what you are doing and I KNOW the game appreciate's it as well. 'THE GAME IS THE TEACHER'
That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about Roger....you see in the early 90's when I started playing most of the PRO TOUR events we had several outstanding "self promoters", Jeanette Lee, Earl Strickland, Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, etc. and really the whole Ladies Tour (WPBA) as well....we all in effect were synergistically PROMOTING POOL the best way possible - Through ourselves. The fact is people don't just like games and sports, but really the key is the emotional attachment to the People that play them.
Imagine if hundreds of people did what you are doing Roger? I'm convinced if those us that truly want pool to be more like we've always imagined. We can do it if we all do our portion, no matter how big or how small....it's the intention in life that gets powerful, when everyone's common goal is the same magical things happen. And it's nice to be a small part of something that can end up being so powerful. I'm glad to have the opportunity to do my part and I appreciate you, Roger, doing what you are doing and I KNOW the game appreciate's it as well. 'THE GAME IS THE TEACHER'
Mark, your are certainly on the right path and I know you've had to argue those points a few times though the years.....From our research, despite what's considered "popular belief", viewers DO NOT watch sports/games because the money involved....from the "think tank" polls we ran only 2% would watch pool no matter how much money was involved. And on the other hand there were some factors that brought that up to 70%, others that brought it up to 80% and the final one brought the 35-55 demographic up to over 90%....the key is the ORDER we do these things, but that isn't for a public forum. This information came from the only place it could....from professional consultants that knew NOTHING about pool.
I'm excited about the opportunities to implement these things and we, Mark, have this in common - to do what's necessary to get positive results that will, in effect change the world paradigm of Pro Pool. 'THE GAME is the TEACHER'
Be True to the Game - 'The Game is the Teacher'
Professional Pool is not vibrant and lucrative because the people involved with it have never been able to portray it for what it actually is....it's like our own personal lives, if we go through life trying to be something we're not we are doomed to live a shallow, unfulfilled, unrewarding, and unprofitable existence....this is what the "managers" of pool have done, in effect.....it's not about pool's image being "positive or negative", these are just individual judgments....."as you judge, so too will you be judged"....this is more than what is said, and it applies directly to how pool's "life" has been mismanaged and those that play and love it have suffered as well. imho ...May I add that anyone that has been involved in professional pool has not done any of these things intentionally, on the contrary they always tried to portray professional pool as a clean, wholesome, fun game....which is one perspective, but how far would NASCAR, MMA, or Football advanced using these descriptions and strategies? 'The Game is the Teacher'
Professional Pool is not vibrant and lucrative because the people involved with it have never been able to portray it for what it actually is....it's like our own personal lives, if we go through life trying to be something we're not we are doomed to live a shallow, unfulfilled, unrewarding, and unprofitable existence....this is what the "managers" of pool have done, in effect.....it's not about pool's image being "positive or negative", these are just individual judgments....."as you judge, so too will you be judged"....this is more than what is said, and it applies directly to how pool's "life" has been mismanaged and those that play and love it have suffered as well. imho ...May I add that anyone that has been involved in professional pool has not done any of these things intentionally, on the contrary they always tried to portray professional pool as a clean, wholesome, fun game....which is one perspective, but how far would NASCAR, MMA, or Football advanced using these descriptions and strategies? 'The Game is the Teacher'
Pool's Reality Show
The reality show I'm told is a GREAT idea....now if we can find a pool player that can take their shirt off without embarrassing:dance: themselves....I'm not certain why the producer's asking for that, but I'm sure I'll find out.
The reality show I'm told is a GREAT idea....now if we can find a pool player that can take their shirt off without embarrassing:dance: themselves....I'm not certain why the producer's asking for that, but I'm sure I'll find out.