Texas Staff working deligently to prove Squirt has NO EFFECT on the Cue Ball!!!

[CJ Wiley]

I believe it's correct to say you don't have to "consciously" know where the pocket is, but unconsciously you do....this is what makes systems work is the table is geometrically perfect and your UNCONSCIOUS knows this whether you're aware of it or not.....the table is 2 perfect squares, with several triangles that are somehow VERY appealing to our subconscious perception.....this is probably why geometric structures like pyramids are so powerful....there's many opinions why this is, and that's a matter of personal opinion....the fact is they DO HAVE an influence on the human mind and allow a certain "magic" to take place that reflect our visual intentions (of making a shot or creating an angle).....and in my opinion "ghost balls" aren't necessary for this phenomenon to work
It does take practice, and everything worthwhile does....however, it's no different than reading music and playing an instrument.....I taught myself at a young age to read music and play the piano....after some practice time and "conditioning" I was able to see a note on a page and one of my fingers found the coorisponding "key" on the piano (WITHOUT looking at the keys).....it's almost magical, but our minds are designed to do things like this and we do them in everyday life ... driving a car is much more difficult than playing great pool, but we a do it easily because we don't try to "over think" the process of driving like we do for say "aiming systems" ...can you imagine a forum of people talking about how to line up the steering wheel to the highway the best way ... and the 40 different "driving systems" of doing it....

CLICK LOGO FOR MORE INFORMATION ON ULTIMATE POOL SECRETS

 

[alphadog]

Did I miss something? Cue ball path?

 

[naji]

I believe it's correct to say you don't have to "consciously" know where the pocket is, but unconsciously you do....this is what makes systems work is the table is geometrically perfect and your UNCONSCIOUS knows this whether you're aware of it or not.....the table is 2 perfect squares, with several triangles that are somehow VERY appealing to our subconscious perception.....this is probably why geometric structures like pyramids are so powerful....there's many opinions why this is, and that's a matter of personal opinion....the fact is they DO HAVE an influence on the human mind and allow a certain "magic" to take place that reflect our visual intentions (of making a shot or creating an angle).....and in my opinion "ghost balls" aren't necessary for this phenomenon to work
It does take practice, and everything worthwhile does....however, it's no different than reading music and playing an instrument.....I taught myself at a young age to read music and play the piano....after some practice time and "conditioning" I was able to see a note on a page and one of my fingers found the coorisponding "key" on the piano (WITHOUT looking at the keys).....it's almost magical, but our minds are designed to do things like this and we do them in everyday life ... driving a car is much more difficult than playing great pool, but we a do it easily because we don't try to "over think" the process of driving like we do for say "aiming systems" ...can you imagine a forum of people talking about how to line up the steering wheel to the highway the best way ... and the 40 different "driving systems" of doing it....

CLICK LOGO FOR MORE INFORMATION ON ULTIMATE POOL SECRETS

With all due respect, many people compare pool to other single pin point target games it is wrong. Playing music is 100% different than playing pool for simple reason, that your hands already in position no need for vision, you memorized their position. Where as pool has to get in position for every shot and involves lots of body parts and most importantly vision, plus keys are single target, like dart target, where as pool involves peripheral vision which means you have to develop the exact sweet imaginary target, of which it gets harder with large cuts and judging aim in my opinion is the #1 reason to make or miss a shot, again it is not like golf judging based on wind. As far as position as long as you are heading nearly parallel to next OB speed becomes the factor
The other big thing LUCK in my opinion that is the magic factor, that every Pro love to have on their side.

 

[8ballEinstein]

CJ, I had a hard time linking the thread title with your post. I thought I was going to learn something about the myth of cueball squirt.

I agree with much of what you say about the conscious/ unconcious aspects of pool playing. Although I have to disagree with the idea that driving a car is "much more difficult than playing great pool". Maybe driiving a car great (say, around the track at Laguna Seca in record time) is much more difficult than playing great pool.

Most of us can unconsciously jump in our cars and drive competently (I'm being somewhat generous here). In the same way, most of us here can pull out our cue sticks and run the last 4 balls in a 9-ball game without giving it much thought. Those wiithout experience in either disipline would be devoting a lot of thinking to the process. It's when we take it to the next higher levels that many fall short.

I think you're also saying we need to break away from aiming systems. I would agree with that also but I can see a need for them at the early stage of player development.

 

[JoeyA]

What exactly do you mean by squirt having NO EFFECT on the cue ball?

Thanks and oh btw, how far along is the Texas Staff with this project?

 

[naji]

I think you're also saying we need to break away from aiming systems. I would agree with that also but I can see a need for them at the early stage of player development.

I think we agree if CB does not hit OB at sweet aiming point shot will go at different place either left or right of center of pocket, and position play is also changes. Yes you can go down and shoot those simple shots, but when it comes to hard pots, you must concentrate and find that sweet finite spot to be accurate, how could you if you do not have a way of doing it, you can call it aim method or system, Darren, Dennis, snooker players all use it.

 

[chefjeff]

What exactly do you mean by squirt having NO EFFECT on the cue ball?

Thanks and oh btw, how far along is the Texas Staff with this project?

Squirt IS the effect on the cue ball.

I'm confused about the title of this thread.

Btw, when I parallel park, I use my vision, my technique, etc., much like potting balls.

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

I think we agree if CB does not hit OB at sweet aiming point shot will go at different place either left or right of center of pocket, and position play is also changes. Yes you can go down and shoot those simple shots, but when it comes to hard pots, you must concentrate and find that sweet finite spot to be accurate, how could you if you do not have a way of doing it, you can call it aim method or system, Darren, Dennis, snooker players all use it.

Serious experiment:

Try shooting balls with your eyes closed. Just go over and feel where the OB is, the CB is, and then go line up and shoot it. All with eyes closed.

The table takes on a different meaning after trying this, imho. I'm thinkin' that's what the OP meant, but not sure.

Jeff Livingston

 

[8ballEinstein]

Systems over-rated??

I think we agree if CB does not hit OB at sweet aiming point shot will go at different place either left or right of center of pocket, and position play is also changes. Yes you can go down and shoot those simple shots, but when it comes to hard pots, you must concentrate and find that sweet finite spot to be accurate, how could you if you do not have a way of doing it, you can call it aim method or system, Darren, Dennis, snooker players all use it.

There comes a point where the unconcious takes over for deep concentration. So even on hard pots, the top players can see exactly what needs to be done and a combination of muscle-memory and unconcious thought come together and makes the shot. In this case, a hard pot is not a hard pot - for someone like them. For a poor sap like me, I need to gather my concentration and focus to make the same shot.

It is said that Willie Hoppe developed a whole book on the Diamond System ... but never used it himself. I'm sure Bugs Rucker could've done the same thing with a banking system. These fellas relied on mostly unconcious experience and judgement for their success.

 

[naji]

There comes a point where the unconcious takes over for deep concentration. So even on hard pots, the top players can see exactly what needs to be done and a combination of muscle-memory and unconcious thought come together and makes the shot. In this case, a hard pot is not a hard pot - for someone like them. For a poor sap like me, I need to gather my concentration and focus to make the same shot.

It is said that Willie Hoppe developed a whole book on the Diamond System ... but never used it himself. I'm sure Bugs Rucker could've done the same thing with a banking system. These fellas relied on mostly unconcious experience and judgement for their success.

i agree on banks and rail system, it becomes natural, but demanding key shots of games, pros spend over 2 to 3 min trying to find where to hit to get the results desired.

On aim, watch Darren A and Dennis O, they take lots of time to aim, i am sure if they go down and shoot the will make the pot or get very close, but that is not enough for a win. They strive for accuracy and will not fire the shot until their sweet spot is found, when we are rested it does not take as much time as when we are tired.

 

[8ballEinstein]

i agree on banks and rail system, it becomes natural, but demanding key shots of games, pros spend over 2 to 3 min trying to find where to hit to get the results desired.
On aim, watch Darren A and Dennis O, they take lots of time to aim, i am sure if they go down and shoot the will make the pot or get very close, but that is not enough for a win. They strive for accuracy and will not fire the shot until their sweet spot is found, when we are rested it does not take as much time as when we are tired.

Yes, there are shots that come up that require additional attention because either the shot, position on the next ball or both, are tricky. In those instances I would agree with you, extra time is necessary. In most cases, that extra time is devoted to figuring out how to hit the ball, instead of where.

I've seen both Darren and Dennis play for many hours. They're both world-class players and both do take their time on challenging shots. That's as it should be. But the best play I've seen is when someone is moving from shot to shot, always on the right side of the ball, using very little effort on the stroke and precious little time thinking about the shot. This is the exact meaning of "dead stroke". A player in this state is said to be "unconscious". Through experience, the thinking was already done long ago and it's just a matter of going through the motions.

 

[greyghost]

Yes, there are shots that come up that require additional attention because either the shot, position on the next ball or both, are tricky. In those instances I would agree with you, extra time is necessary. In most cases, that extra time is devoted to figuring out how to hit the ball, instead of where.

I've seen both Darren and Dennis play for many hours. They're both world-class players and both do take their time on challenging shots. That's as it should be. But the best play I've seen is when someone is moving from shot to shot, always on the right side of the ball, using very little effort on the stroke and precious little time thinking about the shot. This is the exact meaning of "dead stroke". A player in this state is said to be "unconscious". Through experience, the thinking was already done long ago and it's just a matter of going through the motions.

Ya hit it on the head......good/great players are not concerned where to hit or aim the ball when taking time. Its about how to execute the proper sequence to win the game, the sequence that gives said player the highest % to run out or win the game.

Your second paragraph is just as good as the first. That player is moving effortlessly b/c as you said he's on the correct side to do what I just explained above. If and when the variables are well for lack of a better word, VARIABLE then we will take more time to work out all those variables. Just like a chess player.....again which you hit spot on

-GG

 

[CJ Wiley]

With all due respect, many people compare pool to other single pin point target games it is wrong. Playing music is 100% different than playing pool for simple reason, that your hands already in position no need for vision, you memorized their position. Where as pool has to get in position for every shot and involves lots of body parts and most importantly vision, plus keys are single target, like dart target, where as pool involves peripheral vision which means you have to develop the exact sweet imaginary target, of which it gets harder with large cuts and judging aim in my opinion is the #1 reason to make or miss a shot, again it is not like golf judging based on wind. As far as position as long as you are heading nearly parallel to next OB speed becomes the factor
The other big thing LUCK in my opinion that is the magic factor, that every Pro love to have on their side.

I do play the piano and used to play competitive Classical Contests....I can talk for hours about he similarities between music and Pocket Billiards.

I'll be moving to the AIMING SECTION ..... AIMING SYSTEMS - THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS....thanks for your participation :wink:

 

[CJ Wiley]

the Aiming section AIMING SYSTEMS - THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS......

What exactly do you mean by squirt having NO EFFECT on the cue ball?

Thanks and oh btw, how far along is the Texas Staff with this project?

I've drank a lot of Squirt and I never thought it had any effect on the cue ball....I am thinking Squirt would be a good sponsor though....imho

I'll talk about deflection/veer at the Aiming section AIMING SYSTEMS - THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS......

 

[CJ Wiley]

Aiming section..AIMING SYSTEMS - THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS

Squirt IS the effect on the cue ball.

I'm confused about the title of this thread.

Btw, when I parallel park, I use my vision, my technique, etc., much like potting balls.

Jeff Livingston

I was being facetious....I've just never heard it called "squirt" so much...it's usually deflection/veer.....serious discussion at Aiming section..AIMING SYSTEMS - THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS

 

[CJ Wiley]

Yes, there are shots that come up that require additional attention because either the shot, position on the next ball or both, are tricky. In those instances I would agree with you, extra time is necessary. In most cases, that extra time is devoted to figuring out how to hit the ball, instead of where.

I've seen both Darren and Dennis play for many hours. They're both world-class players and both do take their time on challenging shots. That's as it should be. But the best play I've seen is when someone is moving from shot to shot, always on the right side of the ball, using very little effort on the stroke and precious little time thinking about the shot. This is the exact meaning of "dead stroke". A player in this state is said to be "unconscious". Through experience, the thinking was already done long ago and it's just a matter of going through the motions.

I agree, it's more about connection at the "dead stroke' level...thoughtless thought and effortless effort.....the best pool is played unconsciously :wink:

 

[ENGLISH!]

Ya hit it on the head......good/great players are not concerned where to hit or aim the ball when taking time. Its about how to execute the proper sequence to win the game, the sequence that gives said player the highest % to run out or win the game.

Your second paragraph is just as good as the first. That player is moving effortlessly b/c as you said he's on the correct side to do what I just explained above. If and when the variables are well for lack of a better word, VARIABLE then we will take more time to work out all those variables. Just like a chess player.....again which you hit spot on

-GG

Glad to see you posting. I may not be a GREAT player. But I am a player. I totally understand U & CJ. Simply making a ball is the easiest part. The attention needs to be focused on & in the details. People that simply make shots are what I call shooters & people that do it all are what I call Players. There is a difference & I know the difference. It's kind of like when Fast Eddie is sitting there watching 'Jackie Gleason'. 'Look at that Fat Man.' 'Look how he moves.' Etc.

Hope you're eating well.
Rick

 

[CJ Wiley]

Glad to see you posting. I may not be a GREAT player. But I am a player. I totally understand U & CJ. Simply making a ball is the easiest part. The attention needs to be focused on & in the details. People that simply make shots are what I call shooters & people that do it all are what I call Players. There is a difference & I know the difference. It's kind of like when Fast Eddie is sitting there watching 'Jackie Gleason'. 'Look at that Fat Man.' 'Look how he moves.' Etc.

Hope you're eating well.
Rick

Yes Indeed! Here's another match where I played Mike Sigel, A MONSTER to play in the FINALS of the winners side.... CLICK PICTURE TO WATCH NOW:

 

[naji]

Ya hit it on the head......good/great players are not concerned where to hit or aim the ball when taking time. Its about how to execute the proper sequence to win the game, the sequence that gives said player the highest % to run out or win the game.

Your second paragraph is just as good as the first. That player is moving effortlessly b/c as you said he's on the correct side to do what I just explained above. If and when the variables are well for lack of a better word, VARIABLE then we will take more time to work out all those variables. Just like a chess player.....again which you hit spot on

-GG

I respectably disagree, i am talking when Dennis O and Darren A about take when they are down and shaft pressing on their chins warming up, they are trying to find that sweet contact point. Position play and getting proper sequence gets determined before you go down.
I agree about being in the zone, but that is not from aim point of view as much as right speed for every shot, especially on tight pockets.

 

[naji]

Glad to see you posting. I may not be a GREAT player. But I am a player. I totally understand U & CJ. Simply making a ball is the easiest part. The attention needs to be focused on & in the details. People that simply make shots are what I call shooters & people that do it all are what I call Players. There is a difference & I know the difference. It's kind of like when Fast Eddie is sitting there watching 'Jackie Gleason'. 'Look at that Fat Man.' 'Look how he moves.' Etc.

Hope you're eating well.
Rick

Ok making an easy short pot is not a problem, but making difficult cut, long pots on tight pockets is the hardest since the margin of errors is diminished. Yes you can go down and quickly determine where to hit the ball and fire, like Earl S., he misses shots more often than others as well as Efren nowadays, and that is because they got older and think they can focus quick, but the fact is as you get older you need to take the time to focus to find that sweet spot. To be the best player you have to take aiming step very seriously, meaning also judging where to aim for every type of shot.