Meucci Black Dot, Tip Replacement...???

jwe711

jwe711

The Great Cue Masters...!
Silver Member
Here's a question...

I removed a tip with my cutting blade, and I was right online with the tip/ferrule...and to my surprise, the inside of the ferrule and tenon it has a void around the tenon...the void is a ring that goes about 3/4ths of the way down the ferrule and is about a 16th of and inch in diameter.

What is the normal process to finish out this tip replacement?

A) Simply add the tip, CA?
B) Add a thin fiber pad, and then the tip?

I looked at the tip, and it did not appear to have a fiber pad...

Anyhow, your thoughts please!
Thank You in advance,
jwe
 
Well, I didn't take a picture...customer wanted it quick,...so they said tip it and let it go....I put a Moori Soft on it, as requested...

...and that's why I'm uncomfortable with the job.

Another description...

It's hollow around the tenon, and has a 1/16th of an inch gap, between the tenon and the inner wall of the ferrule...the ferule wall was apx 1/16" thick...

So, my glue was on the center of the tenon, and the center of the moori tip...and the glue was on the outer rim of the ferrule, along the outer edge of the ferule, but there is no glue contact within the void...thus, I feel that I've got apx. 75% surface to surface glued contact.
 
Doesn't sound good to me. I'm not a Meucci expert, but I'd bet that's not an original Meucci ferrule installation.

The void between the tenon and the ferrule wall is troublesome - every mis-hit or draw or left/right English or attempt at a masse is going to put the shock/pressure directly on the ferrule wall with little or no support from the tenon.

The correct fix is a full ferrule replacement and a re-tip.

Depending on the attitude of the customer, you might have a potential time-bomb out there. If that ferrule fails - especially in the middle of a big match - and the customer doesn't understand the true cause, it could be your good reputation at stake.

Ideally you could contact the customer, tell him/her your concerns and get them to bring the shaft back for a new ferrule.

Good luck buddy!

Gary
 
GBCues said:
Doesn't sound good to me. I'm not a Meucci expert, but I'd bet that's not an original Meucci ferrule installation.

The void between the tenon and the ferrule wall is troublesome - every mis-hit or draw or left/right English or attempt at a masse is going to put the shock/pressure directly on the ferrule wall with little or no support from the tenon.

The correct fix is a full ferrule replacement and a re-tip.

Depending on the attitude of the customer, you might have a potential time-bomb out there. If that ferrule fails - especially in the middle of a big match - and the customer doesn't understand the true cause, it could be your good reputation at stake.

Ideally you could contact the customer, tell him/her your concerns and get them to bring the shaft back for a new ferrule.

Good luck buddy!

Gary
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree,,,,,,,,,i've done quite a few meucci tip jobs, and alot of them on Black dots,,,,,,,,,never seen a void in there. Sounds like a ferrule job is in order.
 
Yea...I'll give him a call tomorrow and discuss it all...

Hey Can someone post a picture of a Meucci Black Dot Shaft without a tip on it? I'd love to see the end of the ferrule !!!

I'm expecting that it would be a slip on ferrule with a full tenon.
What should - I have seen, once the tip was off? please describe...

I can't explain the existence of the void, but it looks like it was made that way, so, I was thinking it was designed to reduce the deflection theory, and lighten the ferrule, so I didn't want to change it...so, I put it back the way it was...

The pain of it all is that I didn't have a fiber pad to put on it...at least then, I'd feel better about distributing the energy of the impact...Man, you gotta have everything to do this stuff, LOL. So, also, ordering some for stock.

Anyone got any extra's laying around?
I guess I need some blacks and reds...!!!
 
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As stated in thread linked to its a black dot shaft and they are all like that. I replaced a ferrule on one years ago and saw the tapered tenon. There was probably a film of glue filling the void that you might have cut away when removing the old tip.
 
A Black Dot shaft has a capped ferrule. If you see the tenon, someone screwed up. I would assume the ferrule was replaced by a hack that just sleeved it over the tapered tenon instead of building the correct ferrule.
 
"HACK"???.........I'm shocked.
There are no hacks in this trade, they're all seasoned professionals. Just ask them.
They've bought their lathe, they've paid their dues. Any information they need they can get right here on AZB.
Doesn't the 'Master Cue-Maker' credential come on the back of the receipt???
Odd, I somehow had the impression that it did.

Look, if you don't understand the concept integrated into the construction, how can you possibly make a knowledgeable repair???
You can't.

KJ
 
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ratcues said:
A Black Dot shaft has a capped ferrule. If you see the tenon, someone screwed up. I would assume the ferrule was replaced by a hack that just sleeved it over the tapered tenon instead of building the correct ferrule.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes. It was so many years since I did that cue, I forgot it was capped. But I remember the tapered tenon well. Though that was a good idea to remove end mass, while not infringing on Predator's patent.

Best.
 
KJ Cues said:
"HACK"???.........I'm shocked.
There are no hacks in this trade, they're all seasoned professionals. Just ask them.
They've bought their lathe, they've paid their dues. Any information they need they can get right here on AZB.

Look, if you don't understand the concept integrated into the construction, how can you possibly make a knowledgeable repair???
You can't.

KJ
Click to expand...

When I was a kid, my dad always told me "Do it right or don't do it at all." Those words still rattle in my head as I work on cues.
 
My father taught me the same lesson. It's just as true today as it was back then.
What I would add is, if you don't know what you're doing.....don't do it.

To 'iusedtoberich',
I have serious doubts that anything about that tenon/ferrule combination was an attempt at L/D.
Why keep the ferrule at 1 1/4" length if your intent is to reduce front-end mass???
Plastic weighs more than wood.
Could we consider a marketing ploy?

KJ
 
Ryan and/or KJ (or ANYONE ELSE that is willing to reply)....... I am by far NOT an experienced repair guy, only have a lathe to play with my own cues. Coming from someone who has only done a handful of ferrules and never even seen one on a Meucci (black dot or not), and after looking at the pics from the link in post #7 of the tapered tenon, exactly HOW would be the CORRECT way to replace the ferrule ??? Would you have to taper the ferrule down like the tenon is tapered down ???
 
The inside of the original Meucci ferrule is not tapered and there is a void between the ferrule and the tenon. This is all by design.

If you are working on a shaft and do not know what is under the ferrule, take steps to figure it out before it is jacked up. First, cut the tip off and see if it is a through ferrule/tenon of not. You can also gauge the tenon size at the same time. In the case of either ferrule, take small passes until you see some type of marker that tells you how it is installed. Never assume anything. Take measurements as you learn so you can recreate the ferrule.
 
ratcues said:
The inside of the original Meucci ferrule is not tapered and there is a void between the ferrule and the tenon. This is all by design.

If you are working on a shaft and do not know what is under the ferrule, take steps to figure it out before it is jacked up. First, cut the tip off and see if it is a through ferrule/tenon of not. You can also gauge the tenon size at the same time. In the case of either ferrule, take small passes until you see some type of marker that tells you how it is installed. Never assume anything. Take measurements as you learn so you can recreate the ferrule.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Ryan for the explanation !!!
 
ratcues said:
A Black Dot shaft has a capped ferrule. If you see the tenon, someone screwed up. I would assume the ferrule was replaced by a hack that just sleeved it over the tapered tenon instead of building the correct ferrule.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'd agree...there was no cap on the ferrule...just the center tenon, a void, and the outer ferrule...and then the tip was just on top of that...so, I believe that the hack before me, had taken the cap off...
so, once I removed the tip, there was no glue inside the gap...

My customer said, that they'd watch over it...and if it gave him any trouble, that he'd let me change it out...but if it hit well, then he'd let me leave it alone...

So, for now, he knows that I'm going to warranty a new ferrule and another tip if there's any issues...so, I guess I've got to wait for the results...

Anyhow, thanks for all of the advice, and I'll watch for the next ones...and I'll be more prepared to handle the cue by it's design.

thanks,
jwe
 
Its also a good idea to always have rod stock in ferrule diameters, in several different materials, along with boring bars. This way, you can recreate any ferule design, and duplicate their interiors.
 
KJ Cues said:
"HACK"

Look, if you don't understand the concept integrated into the construction, how can you possibly make a knowledgeable repair???
You can't.

KJ
Click to expand...


Wow, it sounds like you must be a master cue builder/repair guy, who knew everything from birth.
When you first started, did you know everything about every cue, butt, wrap, inlay, shaft, ferrule, and tip?
or maybe you learned as time progressed...or maybe you had someone work with you to teach you the business...or maybe you were self taught...either way...

Thanks for your kind assistance.
 
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Well, it was an Englishman that I worked for as a motorcycle mech when I was 19.

He said, "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to find time to do it right the second time".

Same difference but makes sense, right?
 
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