9ball ruling question

[cleary]

Last night playing in a BCA league, I thought I was about to scratch so I put my hand in the pocket to catch the ball... but the ball didn't scratch nor did I touch it. It was actually pretty obvious that I didn't touch it. I walked away and the guy comes up and takes ball in hand saying I fouled. Is just putting your hand in the pocket a foul?

 

[Pushout]

Last night playing in a BCA league, I thought I was about to scratch so I put my hand in the pocket to catch the ball... but the ball didn't scratch nor did I touch it. It was actually pretty obvious that I didn't touch it. I walked away and the guy comes up and takes ball in hand saying I fouled. Is just putting your hand in the pocket a foul?

Not that I ever heard as long as you didn't touch the ball or impede it's progress but I'm not really up on the rules for league play and haven't been for a long time

 

[Dunnn51]

Technically...

While it is obvious that you didn't touch the CB,.... your hand fouled the playing surface while the ball was moving after the hit
.
Technically that is a foul.

Had that happen just once to me in a match. The guy shot and was sooo intent on where the CB was going(??? dunno why) that he left his hand and cue on the table. he got a legal hit, BUT thecrowd of balls that broke after the hit had 1 ball hit his hand and cue.

 

[Celophanewrap]

While it is obvious that you didn't touch the CB,.... your hand fouled the playing surface while the ball was moving.
Technically that is a foul.

Had that happen just once to me in a match. The guy shot and was sooo intent on where the CB was going(??? dunno why) that he left his hand and cue on the table. he got a legal hit, BUT thecrowd of balls that broke after the hit had 1 ball hit his hand and cue.

Just curious, and not to be a smart ass or anything like that, but if this were the case wouldn't that mean that your bridge hand is not allowed to touch the table once the cue ball is struck?

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

Had that happen just once to me in a match. The guy shot and was sooo intent on where the CB was going(??? dunno why) that he left his hand and cue on the table. he got a legal hit, BUT thecrowd of balls that broke after the hit had 1 ball hit his hand and cue.

I dunno about that. I think contacting a moving ball after the shot constitutes a foul. But not that leaving your hand on the table after the shot would be, in and of itself. Never heard of that anyway.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

Last night playing in a BCA league, I thought I was about to scratch so I put my hand in the pocket to catch the ball... but the ball didn't scratch nor did I touch it. It was actually pretty obvious that I didn't touch it. I walked away and the guy comes up and takes ball in hand saying I fouled. Is just putting your hand in the pocket a foul?

I read the rules for a specific league once that talked about this. They actually did say that this situation would be a foul. I assume they were trying to remove arguments that can be caused by this situation and basically said "if you reach into the pocket, it's a foul". Didn't matter if you didn't touch the ball, if you removed your hand in time, if the cue ball did not actually scratch, it was a foul period.

Now what league was that? I don't remember. Was it just a local LO rule? I don't remember. This was the only time I've seen such a rule, but I just don't remember which league it was.

Hope that helps a little.

Fatz

 

[cleary]

Well, either way I put me on dead tilt. This happened at 2-2, he ran out so now I'm down 3-2 and I won 7-4.

I was on the hill and he was shooting the 9ball. He made the 9 and scratched... he went to shake my hand and I walked past him. Grabbed the 9ball and cueball, spotted the 9 and pocketed it. Unscrewed my cue and walked away.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

He made the 9 and scratched... he went to shake my hand and I walked past him. Grabbed the 9ball and cueball, spotted the 9 and pocketed it. Unscrewed my cue and walked away.

That's classic. "So you want to play by the book, eh?"

I wonder if he made the connection though. Sometimes people don't.

 

[Atlatlien]

Yeah I wouldn't call that a foul, and he was being a dick, but it's kind of the same principle of picking up the cue ball on a foul before it stops rolling, even though it's obvious it wasn't going to hit anything. Best to just let it fall into the pocket all by itself (or not) without your hand anywhere near it and he wouldn't be able to say anything.

 

[Okie]

Last night playing in a BCA league, I thought I was about to scratch so I put my hand in the pocket to catch the ball... but the ball didn't scratch nor did I touch it. It was actually pretty obvious that I didn't touch it. I walked away and the guy comes up and takes ball in hand saying I fouled. Is just putting your hand in the pocket a foul?

http://www.playbca.com/portals/0/rules/9Ball.pdf

I don't see anything about it being a foul in the rules.

I do recall an 8 ball rule about putting your hand in the pocket. Something about catching the 8 pocketed on the break was a loss or ball in hand...something like that. IMO it does not apply here.

 

[calcuttaman]

Last night playing in a BCA league, I thought I was about to scratch so I put my hand in the pocket to catch the ball...

This would be the relevant BCAPL rule...

1-40-d. Placing hand in pocket: It is a deliberate foul if you catch any ball that is falling into a pocket, or place your hand into a pocket while any ball in
play is in motion near that pocket. (AR p. 91)
First violation of (d): if the cue ball, ball in hand. If an object ball, your opponent may have the ball placed along the lip of the pocket, pocketed, or left in position. However, it is loss of game if the ball involved is the game winning ball. (8-Ball exception for first violation: if the 8-ball is involved and it is the break shot, it is not loss of game).

And here's the pertinent stuff from page 91 of the Applied Rulings...

3. Situation: Playing on a table with a ball return system. Player A, either as the shooter or the non-shooting player, attempts to retrieve any ball by reaching into a pocket after the ball has been pocketed but before it has entered the ball return system.

Ruling: Deliberate foul under 1-40-d. Exception: legal if the pocketed ball is stationary but has remained in the pocket because of a defect in the pocket lining or ball return system.

 

[GeoEnvi]

I was playing a recreational game in a bar 10 years ago with my (then) girlfriend. She was ultra competitive when it came to pool. We had been taking challenges as a doubles pair on a table, when a tough pair of shooters walked up.

I was shooting the 8, and the tough shot presented a chance of a scratch; but I figured I could spin myself out of harms way. The 8 dropped clean, but the cue was drifting toward a pocket. In disgust, I instinctively put my hand in the pocket trying to stop it. It never got to the pocket, or touched my hand. As in the OP's story, my opponent cried BS and declared himself the winner.

I tried to explain what happened, but our opponent wasn't having any of it. MY girlfriend was pissed. I knew it wasn't a foul, but admitted to myself that it was poor form of me to try to grab the loose cue ball. I also knew I wasn't about to change the mind of some Smirnoff bar banger. Or that of my girlfriend. We lost the table.

I haven't done it since.

And... I married her.

 

[Okie]

This would be the relevant BCAPL rule...

1-40-d. Placing hand in pocket: It is a deliberate foul if you catch any ball that is falling into a pocket, or place your hand into a pocket while any ball in
play is in motion near that pocket. (AR p. 91)
First violation of (d): if the cue ball, ball in hand. If an object ball, your opponent may have the ball placed along the lip of the pocket, pocketed, or left in position. However, it is loss of game if the ball involved is the game winning ball. (8-Ball exception for first violation: if the 8-ball is involved and it is the break shot, it is not loss of game).

And here's the pertinent stuff from page 91 of the Applied Rulings...

3. Situation: Playing on a table with a ball return system. Player A, either as the shooter or the non-shooting player, attempts to retrieve any ball by reaching into a pocket after the ball has been pocketed but before it has entered the ball return system.

Ruling: Deliberate foul under 1-40-d. Exception: legal if the pocketed ball is stationary but has remained in the pocket because of a defect in the pocket lining or ball return system.

I stand corrected...

This rule can be found at http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx

Ken

 

[naji]

Last night playing in a BCA league, I thought I was about to scratch so I put my hand in the pocket to catch the ball... but the ball didn't scratch nor did I touch it. It was actually pretty obvious that I didn't touch it. I walked away and the guy comes up and takes ball in hand saying I fouled. Is just putting your hand in the pocket a foul?

The rule is not to stick your hand in pocket or anywhere near the playing surface after the shot, mainly so cheating does not occur, one could reach in pocket and pull a ball out and put on table, or steer balls into pockets!
So no hands on the table when you fire.

 

[Dunnn51]

This would be the relevant BCAPL rule...

1-40-d. Placing hand in pocket: It is a deliberate foul if you catch any ball that is falling into a pocket, or place your hand into a pocket while any ball in
play is in motion near that pocket. (AR p. 91)
First violation of (d): if the cue ball, ball in hand. If an object ball, your opponent may have the ball placed along the lip of the pocket, pocketed, or left in position. However, it is loss of game if the ball involved is the game winning ball. (8-Ball exception for first violation: if the 8-ball is involved and it is the break shot, it is not loss of game).

And here's the pertinent stuff from page 91 of the Applied Rulings...

3. Situation: Playing on a table with a ball return system. Player A, either as the shooter or the non-shooting player, attempts to retrieve any ball by reaching into a pocket after the ball has been pocketed but before it has entered the ball return system.

Ruling: Deliberate foul under 1-40-d. Exception: legal if the pocketed ball is stationary but has remained in the pocket because of a defect in the pocket lining or ball return system.

Thank You !
It is a bit nitty if ya ask me.

In my case....... Everyone from my team (Captain included) was waiting for me to call it. Mind you he was shooting from the left side pocket up table toward the end rail, so it came back over half a table length hit 2 of his bridge fingers then got "cradled" between his fingers and cue if I recall correctly. This happened on a bar-box.

 

[pt109]

The rule is not to stick your hand in pocket or anywhere near the playing surface after the shot, mainly so cheating does not occur, one could reach in pocket and pull a ball out and put on table, or steer balls into pockets!
So no hands on the table when you fire.

Good post.
When you put your hand in the pocket, you're opening Pandora's box for
any sleaze-bag to make a move...also picking up the cue-ball at the end
of the game while it is still moving.

On the other hand, I have never claimed a foul in either case, but I let
them know that it shouldn't be done.

 

[Hector3cushion]

Last night playing in a BCA league, I thought I was about to scratch so I put my hand in the pocket to catch the ball... but the ball didn't scratch nor did I touch it. It was actually pretty obvious that I didn't touch it. I walked away and the guy comes up and takes ball in hand saying I fouled. Is just putting your hand in the pocket a foul?

It's a rather bad habit. depending on where the other player is it may not be very obvious to him. Some players (especially those with some magician background) may be quick enough to stick out a finger and change the outcome.

 

[cleary]

All I know is that if we were gambling, I would have unscrewed and taken my posted money.

 

[tucson9ball]

Short answer, YES it is a foul and BIH for your opponent.

First off, there is absolutely no reason to put your hand in the pocket to catch the ball, that's what the ball return is for.

In my league, I would just warn the player that it is technically a foul and let them get away with it. However, I let them know that in a National event, they would be called for a foul and their opponent would get BIH.
This rule was put in place to take away the exact argument that you brought up. You were just going to catch the cue ball but it may have rolled off and ended up not scratching. Your opponent may be seated behind you and didn't see the ball hit the rail and not scratch. How is he/she supposed to know that your hand did not touch the ball? See how this could be a problem?
Or your opponent is sitting 10ft. away and could not tell if your hand came in contact with the ball or not. It's just better to leave the cue ball alone and let it roll into the pocket.

 

[Dunnn51]

ummmm

Just curious, and not to be a smart ass or anything like that, but if this were the case wouldn't that mean that your bridge hand is not allowed to touch the table once the cue ball is struck?

This is from awhile back, so I'm thinking on recall.
My jist from what I understood about it was this: No human body part is allowed to impede either the CB or OB that is in motion After the hit.

I was also warned of this by a few when I thin an OB against the foot rail for a bounce back to the head rail corner pocket, as I like to stay down on the tbl and let the shot roll by.