Time clock

[Fox]

Does time clock makes 3 cushion more enjoyable to watch (in particular for first time viewers ?)


Who will agree that clock time should be used in tournaments?
Is it fair that some players spend 2 minutes on every shots?

What would happen if 2 players take 2 minutes on every shot ?
is that 50 points in 3 hours?





Opinion ?
I am a slow player myself , hope will accelerate my game with time clock !!

 

[sightline]

A 50 second shot clock (with one or two time-out) will make it more enjoyable for viewers, and in a sense, more fair for the players.

To enforce a shot clock for every match takes a lot of work. Maybe we can work with the shot clock on the finals.

I think i got a good example,

As many have seen it, the final match of the National Championship in Las Vegas this year. Many shots taken went pass the 50 second limit.

 

[mr3cushion]

The shot clock is an EXCELENT idea, the use of the clock IMHO would see a "changing of the guard" in the TOP rankings of players in this country. It is used widely all over the World, why is it that the US seems to be behind the rest of the World in 3cushion when it comes to concept,techniques,rules,standard formats for tournament play, and proper ranking of players.

When do you EVER see an auction or lottery for players in a tournament in the rest of the World. If players happen not to play up to speed, you pack your bags and go home! And this business of the top 6 ranked players get a FREE entry into ALL OPEN tournament is RIDICULOUS, what is to be gained by this? And how about the $1,800.00 these players get in the 8 or 9 OPEN tournaments held each year, that money could be used to send 2 players to the TEAMS Championships or to send players to a World Cup or better yet to the World Championships, or better yet, funds to develope NEW young players and women pool players with a structured instructional program across the country!

All these tournaments rely on B and below players to fill up the field, do you think that they are going to sign up knowing the top 6 ranked players will be at EVERY open tournament now, I don't think so! The idea might of sounded good on paper, but in the long run it will hurt tournament participation, IMHO!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[Hector3cushion]

....[When do you EVER see an auction or lottery for players in a tournament in the rest of the World. If players happen not to play up to speed, you pack your bags and go home! ...

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Agree with this, specially after round robin where there are more chances to play than a double elimination. USBA tournaments should get away from this.

 

[zensteve]

Bingo Gilbert! I agree that tournaments should have time clocks and all innings counted.

But unlike Europe that has a developed infrastructure of referees,time clocks, score keepers ,etc......the U.S. doesn't.

Who is going to keep time?

But good news is on the way! I will call you.

 

[Fox]

Steven,

Mazin Shooni ran a USBA tournament at his place, ( 2 years ago)
Live streaming and Score Keepers (innings and 50 SECOND clock time )


Perfect tournament , perfect ambiance , and good play.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think a much better solution than a standard 50-second shot clock is a chess clock. That way no timekeeper is required and you can take as much time as you need on a tough shot if you shoot promptly on other shots.

I have heard that they use this for some tournaments in Europe.

 

[jimshovak]

I think a much better solution than a standard 50-second shot clock is a chess clock. That way no timekeeper is required and you can take as much time as you need on a tough shot if you shoot promptly on other shots.

I have heard that they use this for some tournaments in Europe.

Bob,

Bingo!

I have already developed a scoreboard/time clock/inning counter specifically for our 3-cushion players. It will not only keep the score, but it will automatically keep innings. A "game clock" is also an available feature. Unlike a "shot clock" it gives you an amount of time FOR YOUR ENTIRE GAME! (just like the chess clock)

Therefore, you can take your time when necessary on tough shots, but overall you need to keep things moving along. If you run out of time, you lose, regardless of the score. That'll speed things up.

 

[jimshovak]

And this business of the top 6 ranked players get a FREE entry into ALL OPEN tournament is RIDICULOUS, what is to be gained by this? And how about the $1,800.00 these players get in the 8 or 9 OPEN tournaments held each year, that money could be used to send 2 players to the TEAMS Championships or to send players to a World Cup or better yet to the World Championships, or better yet, funds to develope NEW young players and women pool players with a structured instructional program across the country!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Bill,

Rewarding the top 6 ranked players is paid for by the USBA TOUR Sponsors; not the USBA itself. It does not come from membership money, but by private donations, in particular by myself and DL.

Therefore, please don't tell us how to spend our money.

 

[mr3cushion]

Bill,

Rewarding the top 6 ranked players is paid for by the USBA TOUR Sponsors; not the USBA itself. It does not come from membership money, but by private donations, in particular by myself and DL.

Therefore, please don't tell us how to spend our money.

Jim; this is an OPEN forum; I can voice my opinion any way I choose without being degrading.

As usual, you handled this in typical Shovak fashion, diplomacy is not your long suit!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[Hector3cushion]

Bill,

Rewarding the top 6 ranked players is paid for by the USBA TOUR Sponsors; not the USBA itself. It does not come from membership money, but by private donations, in particular by myself and DL.

Therefore, please don't tell us how to spend our money.

Thanks for all support Jim. I see others throw "opinions" around without knowing the facts and just respond with BIG letters to anyone dare challenge them. You've done a lot for the USBA while others just criticize every move. Keep up the good work Jim.

 

[Bert van Manen]

Chess clocks

Don't intend to take a position in the debate, just want to provide some info that may be helpful. As BJ said, Europe has gone through this process in the past 20 years, and we've asked ourselves the same questions.
1) Time-keeping, in some form, is a very good thing from a spectator viewpoint, but more importantly, it is necessary to keep the playing field level. Being slow (by nature, or as a deliberate tactic) should not be an advantage.
2) The Dutch league (in the highest division, that is) uses time-clocks in its 50 pt matches, 50 sec, two time-outs. Works well, but there are several disadvantages. a) the clocks are very expensive, most brands are 700 / 900 euro, have never seen any under 500. b) they need to be operated by referees, using clickers. Experience has taught us, that no amateur will be able to referee and use the clickers, without some training and hours of experience. All sorts of things come into play: the use of cue-extensions, having to wait for the adjacent table, etc. If the ref forgets his clicker just once, you have an incident at the table, nobody wants that.
3) The Belgians use the chess clock, and I applaud that. a) responsibility goes back where it belongs: to the player. Wanna study a shot for three minutes? Go ahead, but you'll have to make up for it. Heated arguments about bathroom breaks, whether used for peeing or smoking, can be a thing of the past b) chess clocks cost next to nothing. c) a tournament director can plan rounds of play, knowing a match cannot last longer than x minutes.

 

[jimshovak]

Thanks, Hector. I appreciate it.

I just want everyone to understand that NO PRIZE MONEY is donated BY THE USBA. It all comes from individuals that donate extra money towards the players' prize funds. Money that is received through Membership dues goes to other things but it does NOT finance tournaments in any way, shape or form. The only exception is the Nationals.

 

[sightline]

How does chess clock work exactly?? A player has to finish the match with the given amount of time??

If both players having hard time scoring the points. Time is out but the match is not done... What would happen then??

 

[zensteve]

Thanks for all support Jim. I see others throw "opinions" around without knowing the facts and just respond with BIG letters to anyone dare challenge them. You've done a lot for the USBA while others just criticize every move. Keep up the good work Jim.

Hector,

I couldn't say it better than you. Jim Shovak is a good man. He deserves a lot of credit for our USBA tournament schedule. We all have different personalities that people either like or don't like. But Jim puts his money where his mouth is. But don't tell anyone I said these kind words. We like to bust each others balls. :wink:

 

[dogloose]

For your information: a chess clock is actually two clocks side-by-side with a synchronized start/stop button for each. The clocks are set to measure a specified time for each player (let's say one hour.) The rules vary with different skills and formats... But in general each player must complete a specified number of moves (think innings) within the time allotted on their own clock - let's say 60. The game starts... the first player's clock is started while the clock of the other player is stopped. When the first player makes his move he hits the button on his clock which stops the clock for him and starts the clock for his opponent. This allows a player to budget his time... Thinking longer on difficult moves and playing quickly on easy or obvious moves As time winds down the players must finish that 60th move before time runs out while their clock is ticking. This can often lead to a time scramble at the ending moments where players are moving furiously and slamming the button to stop their clock before their "flag falls." In many variants if both players complete the first round of moves in the allotted time the clocks are reset for additional periods Such a system requires accurately counting turns, which is why both players in a chess match write down every move. Think about how this might be used in 3-cushion Billiards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mr3cushion]

I just want everyone to understand that NO PRIZE MONEY is donated BY THE USBA. It all comes from individuals that donate extra money towards the players' prize funds. Money that is received through Membership dues goes to other things but it does NOT finance tournaments in any way, shape or form. The only exception is the Nationals.

Jim; I was fully aware that the funds came from private donations; once again, I voiced my opinion in a public open forum. I just think that money could have been put to use to better the game in this country, not just a certain group of players! In this country we can still agree to disagree. I also think Jim, you took the post a little too personal.

Respectfully;
Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[zensteve]

"Me thinks thou doth protest too much" William Shakespeare

 

[jimshovak]

Jim; I was fully aware that the funds came from private donations; once again, I voiced my opinion in a public open forum. I just think that money could have been put to use to better the game in this country, not just a certain group of players! In this country we can still agree to disagree. I also think Jim, you took the post a little too personal.

Respectfully;
Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Bill,

You are definitely entitled to your opinion. But I was concerned that your post would be leading people to think that the USBA was using its members' money in a way that you disagreed with. I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that it has nothing to do with the organization or the members' money. That's all.

Most of the donations we receive from the TOUR Sponsors are given with the proviso that it goes specifically to the prize fund and/or the players. Not for any other reasons. The rankings bonus is given as an incentive to the top players to show up to as many Open events as possible. There is nothing more deflating to show up to an Open Tournament and only have 1 or 2 actual top players at the event. Of course, if you are a "B" player then it would work to your advantage, but what's the purpose of having a USBA TOUR Open Event if the only players that show up are "B" players?

In order to get the best players to travel to a tournament there has to be a strong enough financial incentive because it can sometimes cost a player up to $1000 or more out of their pocket to attend an event. That's why we try our best to get the prize money as high as possible for Open tournaments. That's why we have auctions and lotteries as well. And that's why we came up with the rankings bonus as well. It has worked very well this year with most of the top players showing up most of the time, with only a few exceptions.

You also have to remember that we are in the process of trying new things out and seeing how they work. We are experimenting. So in the future, if we try something out, please remember that just because we are doing something today does not necessarily mean that we will continue to do it in the future. We are always trying new things and learning what works and what doesn't.

But I understand your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.

Respectfully,

Jim

 

[Hector3cushion]

...
I couldn't say it better than you. Jim Shovak is a good man. He deserves a lot of credit for our USBA tournament schedule. We all have different personalities that people either like or don't like. But Jim puts his money where his mouth is. But don't tell anyone I said these kind words. We like to bust each others balls. :wink:

i'll keep it to myself, even when I kick his ass on the table :smile: