Interesting thread.
Thanks for the hammer tip.
John
Thanks for the hammer tip.
John
What's Good About A Good Stroke?
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
What is the end result we are looking for to consider a stroke a success?
Mr. Naji,
You seem to be qualifying the stroke to the 'shot @ hand' compared to a 'generally good stroke' & I would tend to agree.
One does not need or even should want to apply 'overkill'. Many shots simply do not require much of a 'stroke'. If one makes the shot & gets position the stroke was 'good enough'.
However some shots do require a 'good stroke' or either the ball pocketing or the positioning will suffer.
You seem to be results oriented, so if the ball & position was made then it was a 'good stroke'. I would tend to agree.
I believe the purpose of this thread is questioning what is required in the 'good stroke' to execute that shot that does require a 'good stroke'.
Just my $0.02 attempt to claify.
Best Regards,
CB direction/speed/spin - defined by stick direction/speed/contact point.
pj
chgo
TheThaiger
Banned
Thanks English, off course what you said slightly modified (if the ball & approximate position was made then it was a 'good stroke') what do we need stroke for other than that.i want PJ to tell us also, if he failed i will bring my input to the table.
Ok you keep saying CB direction/speed/spin - defined by stick direction/speed/contact point.
what is the end result we desire???
CB direction/speed/spin. Those are the CB's meaningful properties when it leaves your tip (and your influence).
pj
chgo
Not sure why you refuse to say
make the OB in the pocket and get CB as close as desired location as possible as the main objective of good stroke
If your direction, speed or tip location is good, so what need specific objective. Thanks.
I think he's refusing to say it because the end result of a good stroke comes before, "make the OB in the pocket..." The end result of a good stroke is the delivery of the cue tip to a spot on the cue ball, from a specific direction, with a specific speed that we have selected beforehand.
Now, we might select the wrong speed, or the wrong place on the cue ball, or the wrong direction of the cue stick, and nothing good will come of it, but that doesn't make it a bad stroke.
This is precisely why the stroke needs to be isolated from the other part, the aiming/decision-making/etc. part.
And, just to post preemptively, it's not simply a semantic difference. I personally believe that if you are unable to isolate the stroke from the final outcome, you will never really learn to stroke purely.
Obviously, I'm leaving out the so-called "natural", who, for whatever reason, possesses a pure stroke from the outset. For the rest of us, the stroke is a part of the game that requires constant attention, and practice.
Obviously, I'm leaving out the so-called "natural", who, for whatever reason, possesses a pure stroke from the outset. For the rest of us, the stroke is a part of the game that requires constant attention, and practice.
Slightly wrong, actually the end result of a good stroke comes at moment of contact of OB, all estimation made to get the CB final state at moment of contact as desired, if you fail to spin it enough, or fail to stun most likely the shot will be missed, and position will be not as expected.
We'll just have to disagree then.
Seems like you are the only one that thinks that way. A number of instructors and others disagree with your version of it.
The Moral of the story? Logical thoughts and techniques are often misleading
There appear to be three different techniques for the wrist to assist the pocket billiards stroke. The first one is the wrists don't do much at all, the second is they cock up as you hit the cue ball and finish the stroke and the other is the wrists uncock down as the cue ball is struck and the follow through is completed.
The way I play is definitely with the wrists uncocking down as I contact the cue ball. I have been committed to this technique the last couple of days and it's amazing the results. The thing about my technique is I can pre cock my wrists very precisely and that was how I consistently produce powerful stoke shots with such accuracy. This, ironically is what I've been struggling with the most. I seemed to have lost my "power source" that effortlessly produced pin point accuracy when striking the cue ball.
Many of you will not benefit from this information (because the way you use your wrists work fine for you), and others will benefit immensely when you're still searching to improve your stroke and accuracy.
I personally found a missing part to my "personal puzzle" and I'm surprised I didn't "real eyes" how important this technique was for me. Sometimes the simplest answers complete the most complex problems {for myself}.
For some reason my "reasonable" mind says "use outside english", however a "Touch of Inside" produces best results, and my mind says "don't use the wrists", however uncocking my wrists like I'm using a hammer is most effective, and my mind says "root against my opponent" when pulling for my opponent works best. The key to life seems to be making myself do {at times} what I least "naturally" want to do. As I get "more experienced" I see that unfolding in many areas.
The Moral of the story? "Reasonable" thoughts and techniques can often be the wrong thoughts and techniques to reach the highest levels. To separate yourself you must be "Unreasonable" at times. :wink: 'The Game is the Teacher'
There appear to be three different techniques for the wrist to assist the pocket billiards stroke. The first one is the wrists don't do much at all, the second is they cock up as you hit the cue ball and finish the stroke and the other is the wrists uncock down as the cue ball is struck and the follow through is completed.
The way I play is definitely with the wrists uncocking down as I contact the cue ball. I have been committed to this technique the last couple of days and it's amazing the results. The thing about my technique is I can pre cock my wrists very precisely and that was how I consistently produce powerful stoke shots with such accuracy. This, ironically is what I've been struggling with the most. I seemed to have lost my "power source" that effortlessly produced pin point accuracy when striking the cue ball.
Many of you will not benefit from this information (because the way you use your wrists work fine for you), and others will benefit immensely when you're still searching to improve your stroke and accuracy.
I personally found a missing part to my "personal puzzle" and I'm surprised I didn't "real eyes" how important this technique was for me. Sometimes the simplest answers complete the most complex problems {for myself}.
For some reason my "reasonable" mind says "use outside english", however a "Touch of Inside" produces best results, and my mind says "don't use the wrists", however uncocking my wrists like I'm using a hammer is most effective, and my mind says "root against my opponent" when pulling for my opponent works best. The key to life seems to be making myself do {at times} what I least "naturally" want to do. As I get "more experienced" I see that unfolding in many areas.
The Moral of the story? "Reasonable" thoughts and techniques can often be the wrong thoughts and techniques to reach the highest levels. To separate yourself you must be "Unreasonable" at times. :wink: 'The Game is the Teacher'
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You are right, storm is about to hit.
Thanks for the reply, i point out what i have and you do the same, if we do not agree that is ok, no harm done, after all it is pool we are dealing with.
One could also easily surmise that you are coming up with different techniques that work for YOU to make up for a less than perfectly straight stroke or alignment to start with.
Those are the shot's objectives - they tell you what stroke objectives are needed, but they're not the stroke's objectives. The stroke's objectives are simply to deliver the tip to the CB as needed.
Yelling doesn't make your statement any more true.
pj
chgo