Is bonus ball more entertaining than 9ball 10ball etc.

[Cory in DC]

I've been meaning to post my thoughts on the game in general (I'm sure all of AZB has been waiting to hear wait Cory thinks!). But I'll use this thread to give the big picture points:

1. "Bonus ball" is a lame name. Need something catchier. "Sequence" is the best I have come up with, but there are many people more creative than me.

2. To form a real opinion, you need to try it on a table for a few hours and then watch the US v. Canada match. It's hard to understand one without the other.

3. There's a lot to like about BB. As you play it, you can tell how the makers tried to combine the better elements of 8-ball, rotation games and one pocket, while trying to increase the pace of the game relative to one-pocket. I think they succeeded in that attempt. It's interesting and challenging that, in the early part of a rack, it's pretty wide open and there are lots of options on how to run balls (like 8-ball, but with a sequence requirement). Later in the rack, you want to put balls by one of your holes while keeping them away from your opponents. Even though there are three pockets, this part is more like one-pocket than you might think -- that is, the extra pockets don't play much of a role (see the John Barton thread on getting spotted two extra pockets in one-hole against a champion).

4. Drawbacks. It's a change. I had to actively think to remember my 3 pockets and assess a layout; in 8/9 ball and one hole, assessing a layout is pretty much automatic. It's especially tricky to remember that if you make the first ball in a sequence but miss the second, you have to start on the ball that you missed. Yes, that sentence is probably inscrutable if you haven't tried the game. One pretty neat aspect of the game is the strategy changes a bit depending on whether you and the opponent are both on the same color or different colors.

5. Production. Nathan M. is good. Much better to watch than any pool matches you would see on TV.

Long story short: good game, needs a better name.

Cory

 

[Paul Schofield]

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This inertia is due to conventional wisdom being made of ideas that are convenient, appealing and deeply assumed by the public, who hangs on to them even as they grow outdated. The unavoidable outcome is these ideas will eventually not match reality at all, so conventional wisdom will be violently shaken until it doesn't conflict reality so blatantly.
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Man-oh-man. You are exasperating. Please show me how to get people to watch Ten-Ball. I have been trying to get people to watch Nine-Ball for decades without success.

I am saying, "Let Bonus Ball stand on its own. Don't convolute the issue with the other games."

 

[vpbb123]

It took me many years before I could stand watching football. Now I finally get it.

You can't watch one video or even play a new game once or twice and be expected to find it entertaining unless your a professional player I guess. They seem to love it immediately. They get it. I would much rather see a poll on why 9 ball is more entertaining to watch and play than Bonus Ball.

Example 1: I love watching professional players run the table. It is way more exciting than watching two professional playing Bonus Ball which forces them to think and play strategically.

Example 2:I hate Bonus Ball...watching players like Deuel making unbelievable shots are boring to me. I'd rather watch Shane potting balls for an hour because he can break and run so many racks.

Example 3:In nine ball, I like watching players walk around the table for a minute or two trying to figure out ten different ways to pot a ball almost straight into a hole, I hate the 24 second shot clock that makes Bonus Ball so fast paced.

Example 4: The Mosconi Cup is so entertaining because when a team finally pockets the nine ball we can all wake up and start singing and clapping once again. I hate the flow of Bonus Ball and the clapping during a game because players make so many fantastic shots! That is not pool!

Now if people could post their believes like this other than saying it's dumb. I don't understand it. It's not entertaining because...I don't like it. Then maybe we could scrap all the entertaining additions that the professional players have added to Bonus Ball and make it more like your traditional games.

I understand the "high" potting a ball gives people! Nobody smiles when they miss making their shot! They grimace and they are in turmoil. They have been programmed to want to hold the table or they are failures at the game. I like to make crazy shots. I am not impressed watching professional players playing traditional games. It is like watching Tiger Woods playing Par 3's all day. You just don't get to see just how skillful he really is (was).

This is what we were told pool needed. A more strategic game, fast paced, more shot making to entertain the public, teams and a professional league structured like other sports. Unless I'm really missing something, that is the game I delivered.

I grew up playing eight ball. I like playing eight ball but I'm not willing to put myself out there and say this is the game that professionals should be playing. That has proven to not work for professionals. They tear the game apart.

Playing in a eight ball tournament today, go ask these players if they like nine ball? You won't like that answer. Do a poll on Bonus Ball at one of my amateur events. It would be no contest. Bonus Ball is fun to play, no gimmicks, just good old fashion billiards, with some 2012 technology add to the mix. Polls like this are misleading and do nothing for billiards in general.

 

[vpbb123]

For those that would really like to see the new website that Nathan is preparing for the professional league, it can be found at www.wpbl.tv

You will see some interesting videos that Nathan taped in Las Vegas this spring of many of the top named professional players, playing Bonus Ball.

 

[HalfDeadEd]

A game that has top pro players, a pro announcer, great camera work, great production, great shot making, great strategy, a fast pace, beautiful women, all in a beautiful setting; and you think it's "rather boring?"

What year did you die? :wink:

Roger
[Note winking smiley face.]

WADR. the guy sounds like he's commentating a roller derby match.

 

[Roger Long]

WADR. the guy sounds like he's commentating a roller derby match.

Yes, he does. I always liked roller derby, too. And it's a refreshing break from the traditional pool matches that are announced like funeral reports. :boring2:

Roger

 

[vpbb123]

WADR. the guy sounds like he's commentating a roller derby match.

About Joe sounding like he was announcing Roller Derby...could be, because yes, roller derby is full of action. Many different options and so much to talk about, just like Bonus Ball. Wait until the teams start playing the regular season. The points races and the games are for real. There will be a lot at stake for each team. Making the play-offs will be first and foremost on the teams minds. Anyone just going through the motions will not last long in this league. Like any other real sports, there are players that will love to take your place. Nobody really knows how these teams will finish during the regular season.

Everyone knows Van Boening is one of the top players in the world. Shane had practiced the game more than anyone at our first professional event. Yet, Francisco Bustamante learned the game in 20 min. and just crushed everybody! Shane was good and finished third but Bustamante was a wizard. We really have no idea which team is destined to win the championship. I do know this. The best focused and all-around team will rise to the top, just like it did in our amateur league. That's the nature of the beast. I love it!

I'm sure Roger Long was not sold on the game at first. After spending two days with us, not to mention playing two amazing matches against me, he could see what I already knew. This game is for real and is here to stay because it simply plays that good. Will the WPBL survive, that will depend on the market. Will the game of Bonus Ball survive, hell yes. It's simply that good! Go to www.wpbl.tv or to www.playbonusball.com to learn more about the teams, the league and the game. Enjoy!

 

[JB Cases]

You know why Busty is good at it? Because coming from a Rotation background he had to play the same type of shots that come up a lot in Bonus Ball.

 

[predator]

No, to me it is not. Pool already has too many sub disciplines. I don't see any potential value in it. But hey, if by any chance bonus ball sky rockets, then I'll be happy of course.

 

[Hierovision]

I find it idiotic to put women in tiny black dresses and high heels with big 80's hair and have them re-spot the center ball. If they wore something a little more classy instead of dressing like early 90's LA hookers, it might add to it instead of subtracting. That doesn't appeal to the masses, that appeals to the cheap (possibly drunk) shallow slobs of the past. It's REALLY cheap, and it's not helping launch anything new, I promise.

 

[krupa]

I find it idiotic to put women in tiny black dresses and high heels with big 80's hair and have them re-spot the center ball. If they wore something a little more classy instead of dressing like early 90's LA hookers, it might add to it instead of subtracting. That doesn't appeal to the masses, that appeals to the cheap (possibly drunk) shallow slobs of the past. It's REALLY cheap, and it's not helping launch anything new, I promise.

tap tap tap

 

[nathandumoulin]

I find it idiotic...

tap tap tap

One of the most common discussions on this forum is how to improve pool. Someone finally comes along, throws a lot of money and effort at the game, and this is how you respond?

Rather than applaud the naysayers that scream "idiot" and "stupid", how about you offer some respectful and constructive criticism?

"nice effort, but I think it would be better if you did..."

Sure, you might do things differently, but at the end of the day, the reality is that people are out there investing time and money in attempt to bring positive change. What exactly are you doing?

PS. If it helps, the idea for models was made just hours before the promo. There was no time to choose specific girls or outfits. As with the entire promo, everything was temporary and will obviously be improved in the real production.

 

[NobodySpecial]

Imo

I found the whole USA vs. Canada match to be idiotic. The cheesy models, the announcing of the match like it was The Match Of The Century, the little stars marking the pockets, the actual game, all of it.

It was pool, but not pool. Like some pseudo-futuristic version of pool you might see in some dumb sci-fi movie.

And I refuse to believe that any good player, once used to bonus ball, won't just start running racks like they do in real pool games.

 

[Roger Long]

I found the whole USA vs. Canada match to be idiotic. The cheesy models, the announcing of the match like it was The Match Of The Century, the little stars marking the pockets, the actual game, all of it.

It was pool, but not pool. Like some pseudo-futuristic version of pool you might see in some dumb sci-fi movie.

And I refuse to believe that any good player, once used to bonus ball, won't just start running racks like they do in real pool games.

As for your use of descriptive words like, "idiotic," "cheesy," and "dumb," I would suggest you read Nathan's post (right above your own) where he explains how that match was put together.

But as for "running racks," please consider this: Johnny Archer is a good player. Johnny Archer has been playing this game for a long time. Johnny Archer, to date, still has not figured out how to run racks in Bonus Ball.

Roger

 

[krupa]

One of the most common discussions on this forum is how to improve pool. Someone finally comes along, throws a lot of money and effort at the game, and this is how you respond?

Rather than applaud the naysayers that scream "idiot" and "stupid", how about you offer some respectful and constructive criticism?

"nice effort, but I think it would be better if you did..."

Sure, you might do things differently, but at the end of the day, the reality is that people are out there investing time and money in attempt to bring positive change. What exactly are you doing?

PS. If it helps, the idea for models was made just hours before the promo. There was no time to choose specific girls or outfits.

Ok, constructive criticism: The only person who should touch/move/spot balls is the referee, not women in tight dresses. In 2012 having pretty women stand around "just because" is passe... or should be anyway, especially if your attempting to bring about positive change.

I'm not doing much to help professional pool; I don't have pockets deep enough to start a new professional league. I do, however, go to league and talk about what the professionals are doing, talk about matches I've seen, "drop names" (e.g., "There's a youtube video of Shane Van Boening making a sick shot..."), buy accu-stats DVDs, attend tournaments as a spectator when I can etc., etc. Not many people in my leagues know who the professionals are, so I'm helping to promote professional pool in my own little way.


I would really like to see professional pool have a bigger, sustained presence and I keep going back to watch the USA vs. Canada Bonus Ball match trying to get into it. I'm not there yet but I plan to watch the opening matches of the season to try to find the love.

 

[vpbb123]

A true billiard fan would not have noticed the ladies! LOL

The ladies were added because Larry wanted a Las Vegas feel to the taping. They are not part of the league and were never in our plans! The black Bonus Ball outfits were mild compared to what I see at the MGM on friday nights! This town is about entertainment. Anybody that is happy with the billiard industry as it is, does not need to watch Bonus Ball. We are here for the people that want something new and exciting for the industry. We made this game as simple, yet as strategic as we felt would appeal to the masses. So far so good. Will this game appeal to everyone? Obviously not. I won't cross the street to watch an Indy car race, but I watched Jimmy Johnson take down another NASCAR race Sunday! I just don't go around trying to convince people that Indy car racing is cheesy, stupid or dumb. It just a form of auto racing that is not my cup of tea!

For those that want to watch professional players playing a well structured game that plays fast, you can't win by flukes and as Archer says, separates the men from the boys, Bonus Ball is the real deal! Remember to go to www.wpbl.tv for all the information of the upcoming season and to watch some pretty good shot making by the best in North America.

 

[Luxury]

Ok, constructive criticism: The only person who should touch/move/spot balls is the referee, not women in tight dresses. In 2012 having pretty women stand around "just because" is passe... or should be anyway, especially if your attempting to bring about positive change.

It's faster with a ball spotter on either side of the table.

Do you think the boxing refs should walk around the ring holding the card that says round five?

 

[Fast Lenny]

Ok, constructive criticism: The only person who should touch/move/spot balls is the referee, not women in tight dresses. In 2012 having pretty women stand around "just because" is passe... or should be anyway, especially if your attempting to bring about positive change.

I think its a nice touch having the ladies but to each their own. Most sports have cheerleaders, ring card girls, grid girls and so on. Spotting the ball is not a big deal at all because its on a spot in the center of the table not affecting the game. I think it is being done in a classy way an not demeaning at all to women. I do hope in the future there is a ladies team or maybe a lady can sub on one of the teams if someone is unavailable for some reason.

 

[Jesters]

I know that everyone is supposed to get behind anything new in the sport and if you are not positive there is a chance you will get alot of negative comments fired at you. I have decided to just say it as I see it.

Bonus Ball will never make it. The game is too complex for the average player and will not be embraced. This game will be gone before the end of 2013 and as much as some of you want to protect it but lets really face it in reality the amount of money that has been spent based on reports from all concerned it is just about impossible to get that money back and I am sure there is much more money yet to be spent. Sorry for my maybe brutal honesty but the only people that are really ranting and raving about how great this is are people that are directly involved or are getting a paycheck from it. That is for the most part. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it and I also hope that this does not give the sport another black eye and let the players down.

 

[krupa]

It's faster with a ball spotter on either side of the table.

Do you think the boxing refs should walk around the ring holding the card that says round five?

I think its a nice touch having the ladies but to each their own. Most sports have cheerleaders, ring card girls, grid girls and so on. Spotting the ball is not a big deal at all because its on a spot in the center of the table not affecting the game. I think it is being done in a classy way an not demeaning at all to women. I do hope in the future there is a ladies team or maybe a lady can sub on one of the teams if someone is unavailable for some reason.

I think having these women spot the ball is like having a cheerleader (or any other unofficial person) place the football on the scrimmage line.

Unlike cheerleaders and ring girls, these women do affect the game. It may have only been in the test match, but the shot clock was running as they were spotting the BB and their wardrobe was not conducive to quick movements.