Pros and systems

[Slh]

Today I was watching a guy playing and he looked very confused on what was the exit angle on the third rail. "It is 17" another guy says "no, it is 15 or 16". They were calculating the exit angle on the third rail in order to use the angolo 50, a very popular diamond system in Italy. Basically:
cueball position- exit angle on the third rail= contact point on the first rail.
Looked a little silly to me because the difference beetween 15 or 16 is just about a cm. So I was wondering, do the pros rely so much on diamond system, or it is a prerogative of the lesser players? I'm not saying the diamond systems are useless. I know Sang Lee didn't use any diamond system, but only feel.

 

[zensteve]

I think one has to be careful about being categorical. Many pro players use systems. Perhaps loosely but systems none the less. They have just become so integrated into their hand/eye connections that the system has become less concious or unconcious.

And these systems are fluid enough based on the table to become less analytical and more intuitive.

It may come down to how one defines systems.

 

[12squared]

I can't comment on how pros aim or use systems nor have I heard of the system you mentioned, but I do know that most will try to hit a certain side of the scoring ball whenever possible, so the difference you speak of may be important.

Dave

 

[Hector3cushion]

they small differences are very critical for bank shots where the cue ball has a very small target on the first object ball. However, to be that exact most of us, amateurs players, don't have the consistency of the stroke to achieve the exactness sometimes required.

 

[Hector3cushion]

incidentally thinking that the arrival is say 15 or 16 does not mean we know the shot. we think we know therefore we don't know.

 

[Slh]

I can't comment on how pros aim or use systems nor have I heard of the system you mentioned, but I do know that most will try to hit a certain side of the scoring ball whenever possible, so the difference you speak of may be important.

Dave

no way on earth they were playing for specific side of the scoring ball, they are lucky to just make the point.

 

[Bob Jewett]

no way on earth they were playing for specific side of the scoring ball, they are lucky to just make the point.

In engineering we would say that their precision exceeds their accuracy. I assume the system you're talking about is the corner-5 with calculations in tenths of a diamond.

I think top players use systems to put their intuition/feel into a framework but the feel is more important than the calculation.

In the end the angle you get off the third cushion and where you arrive on that cushion are influenced by the amount of follow, side and speed you use on the shot along with ball and table conditions. Also by how far the cue ball is from the first cushion. No system I know of takes all of that into account. The Tuzul method as least has specific corrections for the table conditions and provides test shots to estimate those corrections.

 

[Slh]

In engineering we would say that their precision exceeds their accuracy. I assume the system you're talking about is the corner-5 with calculations in tenths of a diamond.

I think top players use systems to put their intuition/feel into a framework but the feel is more important than the calculation.

In the end the angle you get off the third cushion and where you arrive on that cushion are influenced by the amount of follow, side and speed you use on the shot along with ball and table conditions. Also by how far the cue ball is from the first cushion. No system I know of takes all of that into account. The Tuzul method as least has specific corrections for the table conditions and provides test shots to estimate those corrections.

I'm not familiar with the 5 corner system, but I think it is quite similar with the angolo 50.
PARTENZE= cueball positions

ARRIVI SULLA TERZA SPONDA= exit points on the third rail

BATTUTE= contact points on the first rail

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm not familiar with the 5 corner system, but I think it is quite similar with the angolo 50.
...

It's more or less the same. The angolo 50 has some extra numbers at the end which are obviously wrong by inspection, but it is the same idea. For the US take on this, read the carom section of Robert Byrne's "Standard Book". It includes adjustments for calculating the fourth cushion more accurately.