Whos the best playing instructor?

No matter what definition that describes an in structor, I doubt that many instructors will belly up to the table for $500 per man in which each has to risk their own dough, just for the sake of bragging rights about who is the best playing instructor and the possibility of winning one or two thousand dollars.

Another suggestion might be for each person who considers themselves a pool playing instructor to put their name in this thread and to announce their willingness to a one on one match from any of their colleagues for $500 a set.

That way, MAYBE a few instructors might put their pool playing skills on the line for all to see and to establish the hierarchy as far as pool playing skills is concerned.

Like others have mentioned, it would be fun to sweat on a livestream. Maybe have other instructors to act as commentators.......
 
I see where you are coming from JoeyA but I would also suggest that professionals know there is a "cost of doing business." They pay for continuing education credits, workshop attendance, and the fees associated with attending conferences two or more times a year.

While pro players often carp about their costs of doing business dedicated teachers are well aware of their costs which include advertising and self promotion. At times, when I was active in my profession, it was usual and customary to pay a few thousand dollars a year for brochures, hand outs (such as pens calendars) and other public services.

To be active in one's profession it is necessary to spend money.

An instructor's tournament would be good for business and more than worth the expenses. Then too there is the common meeting ground with other instructors that also leads to a wealth of shared information. All in all a win-win situation in many ways.

The cherry on the cake would be winning. Simply being accepted and attending such a tournament would add to one's reputation.

oops forgot to mention many of the expenses (including the admission fee) would be a tax write off for those who are serious teachers.
 
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JoeW...Just FYI, there is a new organization, open to all instructors, called the Professional Billiard Instructors Association (PBIA). This association is attempting to unify professional instruction, and instructors, and to set standards and definitions for instruction and instructors worldwide. The biggest problem that I see with your proposal, is that it negates all of the PBIA instructors who wouldn't fit your "definition", yet may be quite superior teachers, according to their students results. By holding some kind of $500 entry "professional instructor" tournament, it's only natural that the "pro" level players who call themselves teachers will win...and therefore ostensibly be more "sought after"...even though the quality of their instruction may or may not have been determined. The real problem is that other instructors will not get the benefit of the doubt, because people will be "steered" away from them, with somethiing like this.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

JoeW said:
Roger

Because there is no commonly accepted definition I suggested a place to start that is similar to how we would proceed in professional and academic circles. It may or may not be of use.

With regard to qualifications, in academia we also have a hierarchy of teachers that includes""Instructor," "Assistant Professor," "Associate Professor," and "Full Professor (or Professor)." I am a retired Distinguished Professor of Research and past president of the local "Professional" Psychological Association. My tentative definition is similar to what we would begin with in academia and in the professions. It may or may not be the best definition for "Pool Instructor." Aside from academic qualifications it is a place to start. I do have substantial experience in attempting to arrive at definitions that lead to promotion, tenure, and the consequences that are implied for careers and hundreds of thousands of dollars in grant moneys and salaries.

If you do not think this definition is acceptable, you could suggest what needs to be modified to further the discussion and arrive at a definition that would be reasonably acceptable to many of the people with an interest in this matter.

PS I do not consider myself a "pool instructor" and so have no ax to grind.
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Pressure is a good thing.

JoeW said:
I see where you are coming from JoeyA but I would also suggest that professionals know there is a "cost of doing business." They pay for continuing education credits, workshop attendance, and the fees associated with attending conferences two or more times a year.

While pro players often carp about their costs of doing business dedicated teachers are well aware of their costs which include advertising and self promotion. At times, when I was active in my profession, it was usual and customary to pay a few thousand dollars a year for brochures, hand outs (such as pens calendars) and other public services.

To be active in one's profession it is necessary to spend money.

An instructor's tournament would be good for business and more than worth the expenses. Then too there is the common meeting ground with other instructors that also leads to a wealth of shared information. All in all a win-win situation in many ways.

The cherry on the cake would be winning. Simply being accepted and attending such a tournament would add to one's reputation.

oops forgot to mention many of the expenses (including the admission fee) would be a tax write off for those who are serious teachers.
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Tax write-offs are great if you need them. Not sure if that is needed for most instructors.

I'm thinking that most of the instructors would be more interested in a funzie tournament where they wouldn't have to risk their hard-earned cash and if it were a funzie tournament they wouldn't have to risk their pride as to their skill level.

If you took all of the professional pocket billiard instructors and asked them to sign up for a major tournament where they had to put up $500, you would hear mostly crickets.

The benefit of knowing who were the best pool playing instructors would benefit the best pool playing instructors the most, although I agree with you, it would benefit those who did not come out on top as well.

The other thing I was thinking about is if you had all of these instructors in one spot, you might be able to take advantage of their tutelage while they are at the tournament. Another big reason for attending the event.

However, if they are going to have a funzie tournament for instructors, just to get together and market themselves, I would not be inclined to watch a live stream of that. I want them to have something important on the line, so that I can see how they play and how they hold up, using what they teach. In a funzie tournament, there would be no reason for excellence and it would show, imo.
 
Why not just do a bunch of regional tourneys with buy-ins at $50 per instructor, and the winner and runner up of each regional goes to the Main Event using his regional winnings to get them both there.


I mean, I'm willing to donate to the cause but for $200 I'd much rather play at Derby City. So keep it low, and get the most instructors out to play in the regional events, and then off to the live stream Main Event in a few months with a winner take all final :)
 
Scott Lee said:
JoeW...Just FYI, there is a new organization, open to all instructors, called the Professional Billiard Instructors Association (PBIA). This association is attempting to unify professional instruction, and instructors, and to set standards and definitions for instruction and instructors worldwide. The biggest problem that I see with your proposal, is that it negates all of the

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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As well as the American CueSport (ACS) Instructor Program !!!
 
Scott Lee said:
JoeW...Just FYI, there is a new organization, open to all instructors, called the Professional Billiard Instructors Association (PBIA). This association is attempting to unify professional instruction, and instructors, and to set standards and definitions for instruction and instructors worldwide. The biggest problem that I see with your proposal, is that it negates all of the PBIA instructors who wouldn't fit your "definition", yet may be quite superior teachers, according to their students results. By holding some kind of $500 entry "professional instructor" tournament, it's only natural that the "pro" level players who call themselves teachers will win...and therefore ostensibly be more "sought after"...even though the quality of their instruction may or may not have been determined. The real problem is that other instructors will not get the benefit of the doubt, because people will be "steered" away from them, with somethiing like this.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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I suspect that you have a good point here Scott. BTW I have not heard of any other professions competing against each other. It seems there is probably a reason for this and your point is probably related.

Professions in the traditional sense of the word set up some minimal qualifications and then "all are equal" in the eyes of the profession. I cannot see why Pool Instructors should be any different.

In my thinking the term professional pool player is a misnomer because these are people who play for self aggrandizement rather than to serve. The same could be said for any "pro" athlete.

A profession is defined by a dedication to the advancement of the topic of interest, not one's self. Law, medicine and any of the "standard" professions are about furthering the profession as it contributes to a better society. Pool instructors are professional in the traditional sense of the word and probably should not be competing with each other.

The term professional has been re-defined in our modern world in ways it was never intended to mean. A person who makes their living in an occupation can now call themselves a professional and this may be accepted by others but it is not the way that "real" professionals define themselves.

We can all get a little confused at times and a moments reflection can sometimes lead to a better understanding of the problem. Thanks for your comment.
 
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I have been instructing players for many years, Keep me in the loop guys, I have been instructing players since I came to the US, I am not sure what point a match between instructors would prove.

Not all great players make good instructors and vice versa, However if you are a good instructor/ player the high level players are going to be more inclined to come to you. I spent a lot of time with Monica Webb and believe I had a major impact in her becoming the No1 player for the WPBA and her title back to back title wins. I also worked with Richey Orem for a couple of months and he went onto become the surprise winner of the Reno Open.

I will put my teaching skills up against anyones so if there is away to prove or turn this into an event I am in.
 
tonyc said:
I have been instructing players for many years, Keep me in the loop guys, I have been instructing players since I came to the US, I am not sure what point a match between instructors would prove.

Not all great players make good instructors and vice versa, However if you are a good instructor/ player the high level players are going to be more inclined to come to you. I spent a lot of time with Monica Webb and believe I had a major impact in her becoming the No1 player for the WPBA and her title back to back title wins. I also worked with Richey Orem for a couple of months and he went onto become the surprise winner of the Reno Open.

I will put my teaching skills up against anyones so if there is away to prove or turn this into an event I am in.
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Where's the "Like" button?
 
JoeyA said:
No matter what definition that describes an in structor, I doubt that many instructors will belly up to the table for $500 per man in which each has to risk their own dough, just for the sake of bragging rights about who is the best playing instructor and the possibility of winning one or two thousand dollars.

Another suggestion might be for each person who considers themselves a pool playing instructor to put their name in this thread and to announce their willingness to a one on one match from any of their colleagues for $500 a set.

That way, MAYBE a few instructors might put their pool playing skills on the line for all to see and to establish the hierarchy as far as pool playing skills is concerned.

Like others have mentioned, it would be fun to sweat on a livestream. Maybe have other instructors to act as commentators.......
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Hey JoeyA,
I like that idea a lot. Where do I put my name Smile! I really do like that Idea though. With that said we will see who is who in regards to this thread.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
JoeW said:
Pool playing is a competitive sport and part of teaching beyond basic instruction includes learning how to compete. It would be helpful to know how well one’s instructor competes and how well they match up against other instructors.

There is no formal definition of a pool instructor. The BCA has a program but not all instructors respect the BCA for any of several reasons. Some people are simply not willing to put in the time, effort or money required to be a BCA certified instructor. There should be allowance for anyone who thinks he is an instructor to compete. The following definition is generous and allows anyone who can prove they are a committed instructor to get involved.

An instructor is anyone who has been paid to teach at least 20 different students for at least 100 hours in the past year. There must be at least 50 teaching sessions.

It is up to the applicant to submit the necessary paper work (appropriately witnessed) to a tournament committee. Anyone who chooses to submit the appropriate materials and is evaluated by the committee as meeting the given requirements is admitted to the tournament. If you think you are among the top playing instructors you are encouraged to apply.

Undoubtedly there will be instructors who no longer want to compete as they are well past their prime. Ray Martin comes to mind, though I would surely love to see him play. The results of the tournament would be applicable to those who are willing to mix it up so their students can see what they are capable of doing.
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That leaves me out. I do not charge my students a nickle for their lessons.
Poor me!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
JoeyA said:
No matter what definition that describes an in structor, I doubt that many instructors will belly up to the table for $500 per man in which each has to risk their own dough, just for the sake of bragging rights about who is the best playing instructor and the possibility of winning one or two thousand dollars.

Another suggestion might be for each person who considers themselves a pool playing instructor to put their name in this thread and to announce their willingness to a one on one match from any of their colleagues for $500 a set.

That way, MAYBE a few instructors might put their pool playing skills on the line for all to see and to establish the hierarchy as far as pool playing skills is concerned.

Like others have mentioned, it would be fun to sweat on a livestream. Maybe have other instructors to act as commentators.......
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I like your way of thinking on this, but you have instructors that play at a B level and some who are pro's , so, it will never happen.
 
backplaying said:
I like your way of thinking on this, but you have instructors that play at a B level and some who are pro's , so, it will never happen.
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I've said that all along. :smile: Besides, it looks like for the most part, it is the non-instructors who want to see the instructors have a go at each other.

The instructors on the forum, for the most part, have expressed limited interest in such an event.

It's all good, just another exercise in wishful thinking; done every day on AZB. :grin:
 
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