WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
second thought
could you explain this
lets assume the object ball is one diamond out from the short and long rail and the upper left corner
the cue ball is at the second diamond up from the corner (middle diamond of long rail) and one diamond over (ie in line with object ball)
you are cutting object ball to the left
so you are aiming to the facing along the short rail
of the pocket instead of the center of the opening
right so far???
collision induced throw would "push" the object ballmore towards the point od the pocket or short rail
i do not beleive it is possible to hit offf the vertical axis and not generate some spin
there fore the little bit of left english will also turn the ball to the point or rail
so actually to make the shot you have to hit the object bal alittle THINNER
to make it
where is my reasoning wrong
rather than compensate for all that why not use center ball
lastly
only way to float the cue ball is by getting fuller hits on the object ball
imho
if using inside english gives you a fuller hit becaus the english will throw the ball into the pocket you could float the cue ball
since you say you are not spinning or throwjng the object ball i say it doesnt make sence to me from a physics point of view
your thoughts????
Wrists
Interesting Post CJ,
A good friend of mine and I got together yesterday, and he was all excited about his New Stroke Shot and said man I never miss these long straight ins with my new stroke trick so I watched him fire in a few. We dont get together often but when we do there is usually trouble...lol...so we play in different cities and hit the road from time to time for small vacations....and it just so happens that I had been playing a guy on a regular basis and had learned to do the same thing.......What it was for me was uncocking the wrist as you described but short stroking the shot. I found the short stroke was easier to control but the uncocking of the wrist as you apply the tip to the cue ball has such power that Im not sure how you would control it with the long stroke.....I fired em in and pulled the ball back to the short rail everytime....yeah the wrists are where the power is at....I like the short stroke with the wrists.....gives me the accuracy...
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Interesting Post CJ,
A good friend of mine and I got together yesterday, and he was all excited about his New Stroke Shot and said man I never miss these long straight ins with my new stroke trick so I watched him fire in a few. We dont get together often but when we do there is usually trouble...lol...so we play in different cities and hit the road from time to time for small vacations....and it just so happens that I had been playing a guy on a regular basis and had learned to do the same thing.......What it was for me was uncocking the wrist as you described but short stroking the shot. I found the short stroke was easier to control but the uncocking of the wrist as you apply the tip to the cue ball has such power that Im not sure how you would control it with the long stroke.....I fired em in and pulled the ball back to the short rail everytime....yeah the wrists are where the power is at....I like the short stroke with the wrists.....gives me the accuracy...
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
I know this is a bit off topic. However, this pic is a good depiction of 'parallel' english. It is how I shoot most english shots unless I make a slight adjustment once down on a shot for some reason, usually speed. I think it is a good way for someone that looks at the object ball when making the final stroke. For those that look at the cue ball last, BHE 'might' be a better way. They both require 'touch' & 'feel' that physics knowledge alone does not convey. No offense to physics knowledge. Knowing why is never a bad thing, I think.
Just $0.02 of info.:wink:
Regards,
Good point Rick.
In fact, at the standing position behind the QB I come down on QB with the stick at the english I want to use.
But, since I'm training myself to stay on the vertical axis of the QB now, this pretty much is all out the window on (quote CJ) 90% of the shots.
This is interesting to me. I have always used what I will call "helping spin" to make shots. Never though of just cueing up and down the vertical axis of the QB to change the direction.
Man, I think we are having turkey again today.
John
In fact, at the standing position behind the QB I come down on QB with the stick at the english I want to use.
But, since I'm training myself to stay on the vertical axis of the QB now, this pretty much is all out the window on (quote CJ) 90% of the shots.
This is interesting to me. I have always used what I will call "helping spin" to make shots. Never though of just cueing up and down the vertical axis of the QB to change the direction.
Man, I think we are having turkey again today.
John
The number 3 picture is closest to being correct but you have gone a bit to far inside of the vertical axis of the cue ball. Now my opinion on how this is done goes like this, take your #3 picture that's parallel, Now just move your tip towards the vertical axis of the cue ball a bit but not moving the butt of the cue. That would be the alignment for this touch of inside technique.
edit: cj posted at the same time or a few seconds before
Good picture - and great for discussion. I think your tip position is the outer limit for TOI. The mental picture I use is I pretend the CB is a hologram and I'm scraping along the inside vertical axis at the CORE of the ball with the center of my tip. From that point, I might adjust more to the inside depending on the shot.
Good pic.
Good point Rick.
In fact, at the standing position behind the QB I come down on QB with the stick at the english I want to use.
But, since I'm training myself to stay on the vertical axis of the QB now, this pretty much is all out the window on (quote CJ) 90% of the shots.
This is interesting to me. I have always used what I will call "helping spin" to make shots. Never though of just cueing up and down the vertical axis of the QB to change the direction.
Man, I think we are having turkey again today.
John
Hi John,
I too have used 'helping' english, but mostly I have used up & down the vertical axis to one side or the other to position the CB.
CJ's T.O.I. technique will reduce the # of types of shots considerably & allow more 'FOCUS' on the ones that we will still be shooting. More focus & repetition should only lead to more success.
I'm behind on the learning curve as I have not yet put in the 'practice' time since I have moved my table to my son's house. But I will get it done.
The technique can be deadly accurate but I am having trouble controlling my speed with it. I seem to be hitting everything too hard. CJ said that I might be cueing it a bit more than just a 'touch' & suggested a 'hair'. Do you have any suggestions.
Best Regards.
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I've been cueing much closer to center than this diagram (#3) shows. I would cue there to put spin on the cue ball, not a TOI. If I lag a ball down the length of the table, I get about a quarter of a diamond offset on the short rail. A bad stroke would be a half diamond. I don't use an LD shaft.
I use speed to cut the ball thicker or thinner if I can make the shape work. I try to use a medium stroke on all shots.
Best,
Mike
I use speed to cut the ball thicker or thinner if I can make the shape work. I try to use a medium stroke on all shots.
Best,
Mike
I hope the above explains it. You are using the deflection/squirt to hit the OB at the center pocket 'shot line' & the inside ''spin' negates the normal outside spin that would be picked up by the collison so the CB floats with no spin.
I hope this helps & I'm sure CJ will add, correct, or confirm. The key I think, is to not think of 'spin'. Some spin will naturally occur but you want it to be in an amount to negate the 'collision pick up spin' so the CB 'floats' & hits the rail with no 'spin'.
Regards,
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Pay Up Sucker
Banned
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
doubled up some how...
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"if anyone can tell you're cueing inside, it's probably too much"
Yes, you go that far out and you're going to have "english issues," and start spinning the ball. This is a negative thing to do. "Inside English" is one of the most difficult shots to make consistenly. Although when you use the "Touch" of Inside you will find you're more comfortable if you do require "Inside English" (due to more experience with a "controlled throw").
My standard rule is this: If I notice side spin on the cue ball I'm cuing it too far to the Inside. I use just a "hair," and as I've said before "if anyone can tell you're cueing inside, it's probably too much". This is true for most standard shots, but if you start hitting severe cuts you'll cue it more to the inside, or if you hit a severe "kill shot."
Yes, you go that far out and you're going to have "english issues," and start spinning the ball. This is a negative thing to do. "Inside English" is one of the most difficult shots to make consistenly. Although when you use the "Touch" of Inside you will find you're more comfortable if you do require "Inside English" (due to more experience with a "controlled throw").
My standard rule is this: If I notice side spin on the cue ball I'm cuing it too far to the Inside. I use just a "hair," and as I've said before "if anyone can tell you're cueing inside, it's probably too much". This is true for most standard shots, but if you start hitting severe cuts you'll cue it more to the inside, or if you hit a severe "kill shot."
It will automatically cut down the choices and decisions
Yes, and when it comes down to it "accuracy is the key to playing great pool," and the game get's to be much more enjoyable if you KNOW you hit the cue ball staight every time.
Hitting the cue ball precisely and learining how to use "throw" to increase your pocket Zone is a powerful combination. I will post a video of my stroke as soon as my video producer is available for filming. I also need to do a 20 video on the Touch of Inside so I can make it VERY CLEAR for everyone that's interested.
You will want to change your patterns to accomidate the TOI, however, it will make the game much simpler. It will automatically cut down the choices and decisions so you see the the "right shot" quicker and you can commit to each one the same. "There's no hard shots or easy shots, they're all just shots." CJ Wiley
Yes, and when it comes down to it "accuracy is the key to playing great pool," and the game get's to be much more enjoyable if you KNOW you hit the cue ball staight every time.
Hitting the cue ball precisely and learining how to use "throw" to increase your pocket Zone is a powerful combination. I will post a video of my stroke as soon as my video producer is available for filming. I also need to do a 20 video on the Touch of Inside so I can make it VERY CLEAR for everyone that's interested.
You will want to change your patterns to accomidate the TOI, however, it will make the game much simpler. It will automatically cut down the choices and decisions so you see the the "right shot" quicker and you can commit to each one the same. "There's no hard shots or easy shots, they're all just shots." CJ Wiley
using a "System" to make the Game as simple as possible
Please go back and read this thread.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=283974&page=33
There's many ways to explain this 'Touch of Inside' system and it comes down to what your philosophy is concerning the pool game.
If you believe that you can hit the cue ball in the center, cut the object ball where you "aim," and the pocket in the center you are being unrealistic....I'm not saying "you're wrong," I'm simply saying "that's what it looks like when the "Pros" play."
However, theres more, you're seeing the "result," but you can't see "the incentive." The incentive is to utilize all the factors involved to create the highest margin of error to produce the results you see, using a "System" to make the Game as simple as possible. The question is "how do you make a Game simple that has thousands of shots, as well as a multitude of spins, speeds, and deviations to calculate?"
The most important issue of the matter, from my perspective, ( documented to winning thousands of gambling matches and professional matches) is no human being can hit the cue ball, cut the object ball, and contact the center every time.
Therefore a system must be utilized to maximize margin of error (this exists because the pocket is bigger than the ball, if this wasn't true there would be NO margin of error).
The best "System" to do this would have three factors:
1) You would not be required to hit the cue ball straight every time to make all the shots that come up in a game.
2) You would be able to control your speed, spin and where you contact the cue ball more and more as you gain experience by doing it ONE way.
3) The System would have a "built in" trigger that would assure you "align your body to the shot", "hit the cue ball precisely/accurately" AND "accelerate". This is the best way to assure overall consistency.
If you don't hit the cue ball precisely and with a stroke that accelerates the cue you really can't expect to play that well. Certainly not at the level you may be striving for. Either way, to play a game or sport better it usually does take a mental change. The "mental change" in pool is the ability to see how to maximize "margin of error."
I'm suggesting that by giving shots the "Same Common Denominator," you will suddenly have the ability to shoot them the same. There will be exceptions where you still have to use different spins and speeds, however, the important thing is positioning your game so you can hit a "Touch of Inside" if possible.
So in your pre shot routine it changes from you asking "where do I need to play position on my next shot to get the right "angle." - to "where do I need to get position on my next shot{using a Touch of Inside 'TOI'}to create my favorite angle?
This calculation is done quickly and easily once you become familiar with the different type shots now available to you.
Unless you've used TOI before there's no way to know the style and type of shots that are possible. That's why I've always said you need to practice for 3 hours using TOI every timeto gain this essential experience. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Please go back and read this thread.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=283974&page=33
There's many ways to explain this 'Touch of Inside' system and it comes down to what your philosophy is concerning the pool game.
If you believe that you can hit the cue ball in the center, cut the object ball where you "aim," and the pocket in the center you are being unrealistic....I'm not saying "you're wrong," I'm simply saying "that's what it looks like when the "Pros" play."
However, theres more, you're seeing the "result," but you can't see "the incentive." The incentive is to utilize all the factors involved to create the highest margin of error to produce the results you see, using a "System" to make the Game as simple as possible. The question is "how do you make a Game simple that has thousands of shots, as well as a multitude of spins, speeds, and deviations to calculate?"
The most important issue of the matter, from my perspective, ( documented to winning thousands of gambling matches and professional matches) is no human being can hit the cue ball, cut the object ball, and contact the center every time.
Therefore a system must be utilized to maximize margin of error (this exists because the pocket is bigger than the ball, if this wasn't true there would be NO margin of error).
The best "System" to do this would have three factors:
1) You would not be required to hit the cue ball straight every time to make all the shots that come up in a game.
2) You would be able to control your speed, spin and where you contact the cue ball more and more as you gain experience by doing it ONE way.
3) The System would have a "built in" trigger that would assure you "align your body to the shot", "hit the cue ball precisely/accurately" AND "accelerate". This is the best way to assure overall consistency.
If you don't hit the cue ball precisely and with a stroke that accelerates the cue you really can't expect to play that well. Certainly not at the level you may be striving for. Either way, to play a game or sport better it usually does take a mental change. The "mental change" in pool is the ability to see how to maximize "margin of error."
I'm suggesting that by giving shots the "Same Common Denominator," you will suddenly have the ability to shoot them the same. There will be exceptions where you still have to use different spins and speeds, however, the important thing is positioning your game so you can hit a "Touch of Inside" if possible.
So in your pre shot routine it changes from you asking "where do I need to play position on my next shot to get the right "angle." - to "where do I need to get position on my next shot{using a Touch of Inside 'TOI'}to create my favorite angle?
This calculation is done quickly and easily once you become familiar with the different type shots now available to you.
Unless you've used TOI before there's no way to know the style and type of shots that are possible. That's why I've always said you need to practice for 3 hours using TOI every timeto gain this essential experience. 'The Game is the Teacher'
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CJ, question, but I'm committed.
Hi CJ,
What is your 'favorite shot' in your aiming system? Is it where your T.O.I. cue stick alignment is aiming at the OB edge? Would that be the shot for the most versatility for the next position?
I'm committed to give this my best effort as I see the total logic to it. I may have to lose for a while, but that may very well be the price of the journey in getting to play the game like a pro & not just like a very good amatuer. Similiar to the way Tiger revamped his game. Changes take time to become totally productive.
Thanks in advance & again for all of your insightful input.
Best Regards,
Hi CJ,
What is your 'favorite shot' in your aiming system? Is it where your T.O.I. cue stick alignment is aiming at the OB edge? Would that be the shot for the most versatility for the next position?
I'm committed to give this my best effort as I see the total logic to it. I may have to lose for a while, but that may very well be the price of the journey in getting to play the game like a pro & not just like a very good amatuer. Similiar to the way Tiger revamped his game. Changes take time to become totally productive.
Thanks in advance & again for all of your insightful input.
Best Regards,
it's easier to "lock in" to a consistent shot I like to hit
Check out this post and it will take you to the link>>> http:/[COLOR="Red"]/forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=290158
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The rest of what I do is 'The Inside Touch' in addition to 'My Favorite Angle' or 'My Favorite Shot' and try to create that consistenly. From my experience it's easier to "lock in" to a consistent shot "I like," rather than shooting miscellanious spins, speeds, and angles.
CJ Wiley
Check out this post and it will take you to the link>>> http:/[COLOR="Red"]/forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=290158
[/COLOR]
The rest of what I do is 'The Inside Touch' in addition to 'My Favorite Angle' or 'My Favorite Shot' and try to create that consistenly. From my experience it's easier to "lock in" to a consistent shot "I like," rather than shooting miscellanious spins, speeds, and angles.
CJ Wiley