Bottom line you need to be able to shoot and pot any reasonable angle shot in any way shape or form of english, speed, stun , or role , at varying distances from pocket, and varying distances between OB and CB to be consistent and win games, no exception. I call them 4000 shots to master pool.
WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
Bottom line you need to be able to shoot and pot any reasonable angle shot in any way shape or form of english, speed, stun , or role , at varying distances from pocket, and varying distances between OB and CB to be consistent and win games, no exception. I call them 4000 shots to master pool.
"There are no hard shots or easy shots, they're all just shots." CJ Wiley
Yes, the key to mastering the TOI is committing to it for a certain amount of time. The reward will come within 3 weeks because when you are doing the TOI correctly your game will improve.....and in some cases dramatically.
The cue ball is "heavier," and that's why it won't ever get away from you like the spinning shots will. When you really get this technique "down" you will be hitting most shots the same speed. Cuing the ball higher or lower will dictate the distance the cue ball travels. This is what makes most of the shots seem the same. "There are no hard shots or easy shots, they're all just shots." CJ Wiley
Yes, the key to mastering the TOI is committing to it for a certain amount of time. The reward will come within 3 weeks because when you are doing the TOI correctly your game will improve.....and in some cases dramatically.
The cue ball is "heavier," and that's why it won't ever get away from you like the spinning shots will. When you really get this technique "down" you will be hitting most shots the same speed. Cuing the ball higher or lower will dictate the distance the cue ball travels. This is what makes most of the shots seem the same. "There are no hard shots or easy shots, they're all just shots." CJ Wiley
I'll let you shoot your "4000 shots," and I'll shoot my 3 and see what happens
We'll have to agree to disagree on this "no exception and 4000 shot statement." I'll let you shoot your "4000 shots," and I'll shoot my 3 and see what happens
I play championship speed and NEVER use outside english (unless straight in or changing an angle off a rail). Does this sound impossible? I'll certainly bet on it, I've bet on it thousands of times in my life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
We'll have to agree to disagree on this "no exception and 4000 shot statement." I'll let you shoot your "4000 shots," and I'll shoot my 3 and see what happens
I play championship speed and NEVER use outside english (unless straight in or changing an angle off a rail). Does this sound impossible? I'll certainly bet on it, I've bet on it thousands of times in my life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Westpoint, Bill,
Thanks for the input. I think that I do 'know' the real angles as I have been playing off of them with 'diagonal' english, both high & low with outside & inside for nearly 46 yrs. However, yersterday was my first 3.5 hr. session with TOI.
When shooting with 'my english' I am always cheating the pocket one way or the other in order to get the angle with the correct speed for the shape. With TOI, at least yesterday, I was almost always playing the 'one shot'. That is, aiming at full hit side of the pocket & deflecting it to the middle.
I agree about the ease of focusing on the power to make sure the CB deflects enough but when I tried to back off most of those balls bobbled & missed. I was playing with two(2) LD shafts. I may try my stock shaft some next time.
I may be able to put in 2 or more seesions with it before I start completeling in the money league next week. I think what will probably works best(for now) will be to look for the TOI shots & shoot them when I think they will give me the next shot, but go to my 46 years of experience when I doubt that it will, at least until I develope more experience with TOI & I will. It is not being put on a shelf.:wink: It's here to stay.
As to the grip & stroke, I made a conscious effort to use my own yesterday but found myself gravitating to CJ's athletc firm grip & more compact stroke. Since this is really my first lesson, 'ever', I think that will be what will happen. I will gravitate to what works best.
Thanks again for the help & Best Regards,
Thanks for the input. I think that I do 'know' the real angles as I have been playing off of them with 'diagonal' english, both high & low with outside & inside for nearly 46 yrs. However, yersterday was my first 3.5 hr. session with TOI.
When shooting with 'my english' I am always cheating the pocket one way or the other in order to get the angle with the correct speed for the shape. With TOI, at least yesterday, I was almost always playing the 'one shot'. That is, aiming at full hit side of the pocket & deflecting it to the middle.
I agree about the ease of focusing on the power to make sure the CB deflects enough but when I tried to back off most of those balls bobbled & missed. I was playing with two(2) LD shafts. I may try my stock shaft some next time.
I may be able to put in 2 or more seesions with it before I start completeling in the money league next week. I think what will probably works best(for now) will be to look for the TOI shots & shoot them when I think they will give me the next shot, but go to my 46 years of experience when I doubt that it will, at least until I develope more experience with TOI & I will. It is not being put on a shelf.:wink: It's here to stay.
As to the grip & stroke, I made a conscious effort to use my own yesterday but found myself gravitating to CJ's athletc firm grip & more compact stroke. Since this is really my first lesson, 'ever', I think that will be what will happen. I will gravitate to what works best.
Thanks again for the help & Best Regards,
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Rick:
I'm sure you do know them...I was using the "royal" you, not implying you yourself don't know natural angles (I don't even know you)! Us old dogs are usually skeptics with respect to something that comes along like this...I understand your predicament in trying something new right before a competitive season starts...I'm in the middle of a national league season here in Cyprus prepping now for a qualifier for the National Cyprus Championships, a qualifier for the European Championship. Regardless how that turns out, I'm coming back the U.S. (DC) after my duty here is done and will be jumping into the regional tours immediately, with eyes on something bigger down the road (my family is finally letting me get back into it after a LONG layoff). Believe me, fundamentally adjusting my play after 30 years wasn't an easy concept; but this has proven such a powerful game changer for me I can't resist. Luckily, it's taking for me, I'm playing better now than I ever have...still have hiccups here and there (what the hell happened with that shot?), but the confidence level is way up, which has always been my Achilles Heel! :embarrassed2:
Bill
I'm sure you do know them...I was using the "royal" you, not implying you yourself don't know natural angles (I don't even know you)! Us old dogs are usually skeptics with respect to something that comes along like this...I understand your predicament in trying something new right before a competitive season starts...I'm in the middle of a national league season here in Cyprus prepping now for a qualifier for the National Cyprus Championships, a qualifier for the European Championship. Regardless how that turns out, I'm coming back the U.S. (DC) after my duty here is done and will be jumping into the regional tours immediately, with eyes on something bigger down the road (my family is finally letting me get back into it after a LONG layoff). Believe me, fundamentally adjusting my play after 30 years wasn't an easy concept; but this has proven such a powerful game changer for me I can't resist. Luckily, it's taking for me, I'm playing better now than I ever have...still have hiccups here and there (what the hell happened with that shot?), but the confidence level is way up, which has always been my Achilles Heel! :embarrassed2:
Bill
Bill,
Best of Luck to you! Those hiccups really hurt sometimes.:wink: Thank God they are of the issolated nature & not the constant ones that you can't seem to get rid of. The problem with them is that they come up from out of no where & you don't know what causes them. I can usually figure them out before my next shot & if not, I do not even have to forget them because 'it just did NOT happen & it was merely a figment of my imagination'.:wink:
Thanks again & Good Luck. Good Luck is never a bad thing even if we don't need it.
Best Regards,
Best of Luck to you! Those hiccups really hurt sometimes.:wink: Thank God they are of the issolated nature & not the constant ones that you can't seem to get rid of. The problem with them is that they come up from out of no where & you don't know what causes them. I can usually figure them out before my next shot & if not, I do not even have to forget them because 'it just did NOT happen & it was merely a figment of my imagination'.:wink:
Thanks again & Good Luck. Good Luck is never a bad thing even if we don't need it.
Best Regards,
We'll have to agree to disagree on this "no exception and 4000 shot statement." I'll let you shoot your "4000 shots," and I'll shoot my 3 and see what happens
I play championship speed and NEVER use outside english (unless straight in or changing an angle off a rail). Does this sound impossible? I'll certainly bet on it, I've bet on it thousands of times in my life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I never doubted your skill as a champion, but for anyone to be on top of his/her game they have to be able to make any shot on the table with any kind of english, no english, stun, role, and all speed, all angles, different separation between OB and CB, and OB and pocket. I am not advocating that every shot be shot with english, but what separate good players is how comprehensiveness his or her knowledge is and ability to judge aim and execute accurately.
I like the touch of inside, but what if i wanted a touch of outside!
We'll have to agree to disagree on this "no exception and 4000 shot statement." I'll let you shoot your "4000 shots," and I'll shoot my 3 and see what happens
I play championship speed and NEVER use outside english (unless straight in or changing an angle off a rail). Does this sound impossible? I'll certainly bet on it, I've bet on it thousands of times in my life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
How can you say never followed by an exception that proves you wrong? You either do or you don't.
Your own statement proves it is impossible to use TOI nonsense on every shot.
There is a big difference in saying I never do anything verus I never do anything except when.....
I bet any here they can not run 100 balls in 14.1 using only TOI.
Mr. Naji,
Your statement above is intersting to me in light of my 3.5 hours yesterday with the TOI.
I had a shot where I wanted to set up on a certain shot & I knew that the TOI would leave me a harder shot & on the wrong side for the 3rd. shot. So, I wanted to use outside english.
Here's the thing. I shot the outside shot differently then I ever have in 46 years. I shot it with a 'touch of outside' & focusing on the deflection & accelartion. That's not my 'normal' way of perceiving it. It worked well, yet with a different perception.
Regards,
Sure you will be faced with shots all the time that requires different CB condition at contact point of OB to achieve desired results either potting a ball or position, or both, at times the inside english half, and 1/4 of the outside english side of CB could be blocked by an OB now you are forced to use outside, and more than a touch.
The amount of english depends on how far the OB from CB, table cloth condition, speed..etc as long as you know what needs to be done with aim adjustments, you will be a hero.
Again, players always run their check list on a shot, 1st check list item, english or no english and select a shot that provide best outcome for next two balls or more.
TOI is really good to learn, but i find it in my 30 years one pocket journey we are always faced with soft shots for safety play that requires either inside or outside, position play in one pocket is also demanding varieties of all kind of english, take a well known shot in one pocket, kick OB from near opponent's hole close to long rail with extreme outside bottom and freeze cue ball in place, or slow its progressions, or making a dock at your hole and have CB curve around OB, and many others not including banks and kicks.
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
We'll have to agree to disagree on this "no exception and 4000 shot statement." I'll let you shoot your "4000 shots," and I'll shoot my 3 and see what happens
I play championship speed and NEVER use outside english (unless straight in or changing an angle off a rail). Does this sound impossible? I'll certainly bet on it, I've bet on it thousands of times in my life. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I just skimmed through a bunch of posts and not really paying attention.
This tells me the the guy that made the post above is/was a top level pro, which also tells me he is able to control the cue ball and always get the correct angles he wants. He plays to his system and can do it very well. You guys also realize the tangent line is naturally to the outside right and your not hitting with inside spin. This is why i say your not using parallel inside english and you are offset a touch. In addition, let us say I want more cue ball movement, all I have to do is change the zone in the pocket I am targeting or shift my alignment closer to the center ball also. I dot think there is a rule as to how far inside you have to be, you just have to use your brain and common sense on each shot and figure out the best outcome. Its not hard to do....for me anyway lol
I have only taken about 8 shots with this TOI system. I take mikejary word on how well it plays so far for him and he has not mastered it yet.
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I just skimmed through a bunch of posts and not really paying attention.
This tells me the the guy that made the post above is/was a top level pro, which also tells me he is able to control the cue ball and always get the correct angles he wants. He plays to his system and can do it very well. You guys also realize the tangent line is naturally to the outside right and your not hitting with inside spin. This is why i say your not using parallel inside english and you are offset a touch. In addition, let us say I want more cue ball movement, all I have to do is change the zone in the pocket I am targeting or shift my alignment closer to the center ball also. I dot think there is a rule as to how far inside you have to be, you just have to use your brain and common sense on each shot and figure out the best outcome. Its not hard to do....for me anyway lol
CJ's system is great no doubt, but like many have stated and my experience, you cannot baby the shot in with CJ's method, in one pocket game, lots of shots are soft to medium so swerve is driving factor as well as squirt, throw as well as demanding position at times requires outside english to stay above the balls lots of times.
That was my problem with TOI yesterday. Soft enough was very difficult if not impossible. It was my first real full effort with it & I'm sure an adjustment can be made to allow for it. I just did not focus on that yesterday.
But I would tend to agree that there will be times when outside will be the correct choice for the shot at hand. When it is I will certainly shoot it that way. I do not think CJ is saying it is the only shot to use. I think he is saying that by making it your predominant shot you will become more consistant AND know why you mis when you mis & can correct it more quickly before a match or tournament is lost by trying the wrong correction.
Just my take.
Regards,
Pidge,
It's stagnant poolroom air in a can that you spray all over your patio to remind you of being inside a pool hall.:wink:
I thought everyone knew about it.
Pay Up Sucker
Banned
well firstly i consider one pocket mostly a game of strategy and where the smarter less skilled guy can rob the more skilled guy. I am sure you would be surprised at what the system could do in the hands of someone who has mastered it. The guys that think you have to swing way inside to use this system are the ones that will never understand its potential. If you dont know how or you cant figure out a way to tinker and tweak these systems, they will all look like they fail and will fail. This is the same kind of thing that happen to CTE, dr dave,etc started bringing out drills and said "let me see you make this with CTE" lol
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