So is there footage of the famous 1990's Challenge of Champions dumping scandal?

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
SUPERSTAR said:
Yeah. OTHERS asked.

But the OP did not ask.

I was responding to the OP.

Who cares what everyone else wants.

But since it seems to bother everyone that I am not posting it.
Why not a picture of the table to get everyone really fired up!:D

What was it that you said?
Oh yeah. "claims" to have it...:rolleyes:
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Wow.... I won't sleep tonight
Honestly I could care less. My dogs bigger than your dog
 
kwakaa said:
Lebron won the US Open in 1988? He had to be able to shoot.

Hall won it in 1991. I tried getting this match a while ago. ESPN does not release videos. It is not for sale anywhere.

The descriptions I have read and heard make it seem like he missed easy outs on purpose.

If you got the video on DVD just post the hill hill match on youtube.
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Maybe he doesn't have the technology or doesn't know how to post it to youtube. For example, I don't have a DVD burner on my computer and even if I did, I'm not sure I know how to post a video on youtube. Probably not that hard to do though
 
Well what would a thread be if I didn't take the contrary position.

First dumping to snap off the sports book and the rail is just plain wrong. Not only did the players involved tarnish themselves for life but they also swindled any of the clueless fans who bet on anyone besides LeBron. And as we see things like this never die in the internet age.

Where I take the contrary position is the notion that this has hurt pool. I don't believe for a second that it hurt pool.

The Challenge of Champions is a one-off yearly event. Players were not household names back then and they were unlikely to become them. The COC was not going to propel them and the game to amazing new heights.

Just because a sport is being bet on by the sports books does not make that sport into something huge. It just makes it another thing to bet on. Some people have said in the past and probably in this thread that if only Vegas would take bets on pool then it would be big.

This is easily disproven because we have an excellent case study where bets ARE booked on pool and yet pool has NOT become huge.

In England. Stan James and perhaps other bookies have taken bets on the big pool events for more than a decade and yet pool is only marginally "bigger" than it was a decade ago if at all.

Now, if pool isn't made bigger in bet-friendly, gambling crazy England due to betting on it then what makes people think it would make it bigger here? Will betting on pool make more people play pool? Make them buy more tables and pool cues? Make more casinos sponsor pool?

I doubt it. Pool has been played in casinos for the past 15 years. Any casino could have opened the book to the WPBA tournaments, highly unlikely that they would collude to dump.

I just see this as an incident that is a black eye but it's not relevant anymore. It didn't hurt pool in the least in my opinion. After the COC we ended up with the World Nine Ball Championships by Matchroom, the Derby City Classic, The Masters, the US Open got bigger, The Camel Tour, and of course the Challenge of Champions has continued ever since along with a ton of other events.

We can play what-if and I say what-if the players didn't collude to let Mike win? In my opinion IF that were the only difference then it wouldn't have changed a thing and pool would most likely still be just where it is now.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Yeah. OTHERS asked.

But the OP did not ask.

I was responding to the OP.

Who cares what everyone else wants.

But since it seems to bother everyone that I am not posting it.
Why not a picture of the table to get everyone really fired up!:D

What was it that you said?
Oh yeah. "claims" to have it...:rolleyes:
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It is very clear to me that World of Leisure deliberately sharked Buddy Hall with that table. Mike Lebron who is Puerto Rican is used to loud colorful celebrations so he was totally comfortable on that table. I bet that World of Leisure put the line out there on Mike as well. How much they bet hmmm????

:-')
 
jay helfert said:
And this is an example of how rumors morph into outright fantasies! :cool:
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You know how it is Jay. A $10 back pocket 9 ball game in the corner becomes a $1000 five ahead set by the time it gets to the counter.

My first thought after I read your version where the book had a max $200 bet was that in order to get $5000 in play the person would have had to have 25 friends laying down bets for you. Multiply that by all the players and you see that it's near impossible for 8 players to bring 400 people to the event just to get bets in.

Then supposedly one of the players stacked another 5k on top of it? Not possible given what we know of pool players and events.

I want to say though thanks for relating it from your perspective. And also, dude really is there any major pool event that you have not been a part of in the past 30 odd years? Seems like no matter what the event there is a Jay version waiting in the wings to set the record straight. :-)

Where were all THOSE stories in your book?
 
I think I can actually remember watching one of the matches from this tournament.

The owner of the pool room had a bunch of matches on tape. It seems like I remember watching one of the David Howard matches from this same year. I would have watched it much later on, probably around 98 or so.

The funny thing is I remember there being several missed shots, which got me thinking that these pros weren't that good.

So basically, had it not been for this funny business I may not have even bothered playing this game. Had I seen pros just running out like they were supposed to I would have then realized how horrible I was and I would have just given up right then and there.

Who can I sue for all my wasted time now???


Did David Howard play Mike LeBron in this tourney?
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Learn how to read.
He never asked if someone could post it up.



He asks if there is footage of the event.

I reply that it is out there.
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I shouldn't even respond to your troll (which you are famous for, btw), but I will humor you. He asked if there was footage. Why in the hell would he ask if there was footage if he didn't want to see it? I think it's your hairbrain that can't think past the words written. :rolleyes:
 
Wow. Eight pages and still no youtube link. :sorry:

I mean hey I've got nothing against speculation, but it's nice to have some moving images on which to speculate.

SUPERSTAR said:
Won't

So get yourself a copy and share it.:rolleyes:

And yes, i'm a D bag.

Tell me something i DON'T know.:D
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Trololol. :rolleyes:


iusedtoberich said:
Someone had the final match, or at least the last game of the final match on youtube one of the prior times this topic came up. I watched it at the time, but haven't been able to find it since.
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:angry:
 
For the record, Accustats doesn't have any Challenge of Champions videos. So I guess it's strictly home recordings from ESPN.
 
JB Cases said:
Well what would a thread be if I didn't take the contrary position...
This is easily disproven because we have an excellent case study where bets ARE booked on pool and yet pool has NOT become huge...In England. Stan James and perhaps other bookies have taken bets on the big pool events for more than a decade and yet pool is only marginally "bigger" than it was a decade ago if at all..
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Well what would a thread be if I didn't take the contrary position...
?

You evidence isn't evidence! Perhaps pool would be smaller for that group, if there was no betting? Not a sermon, just a thought.
 
JB Cases said:
...snip... Pool has been played in casinos for the past 15 years. Any casino could have opened the book to the WPBA tournaments, highly unlikely that they would collude to dump.
...double snip circumcision...
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Not to derail the thread, are you saying men pro's are far more "devious" than women pro's? Interesting, and may make a worthy thread on its own...
 
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The most perplexing aspect of this story for me is.....Nick Varner was a willing participant?
 
RunoutJJ said:
Its always gonna be there so yeah lets move on HENCE sweep it under the rug. You're so metaphorical about it it makes me laugh. Its this kinda shit that is screwing everything up and people say... "Hey guys.... Somebody upload this to youtube so anybody that never knew about about this can see it..."

Yeah that would do wonders for everybody :rolleyes:


Point is MOVE ON!! Its always gonna be known that this happened but bringing anything up, no matter what it is, in a negative light is not good.
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Thanks Mr Forum police. For your information I am curious about this subject and this is a pool forum. If you don't like it then take a hike
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Make no doubt about it.
Spanish Mike could PLAY.

As for the dumping on video.
It's out there.
I have it on DVD.
Think it was ESPN that ran it.

And yes, the dumping was obvious.
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It's not available anywhere in the world for sale or in any way to use the old footage to produce a video. I called ESPN and tried to obtain a copy. So if you have it, you're one of the only ones. Are you planning to youtube it?
 
El-ahrairah said:
It's not available anywhere in the world for sale or in any way to use the old footage to produce a video. I called ESPN and tried to obtain a copy. So if you have it, you're one of the only ones. Are you planning to youtube it?
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SUPERSTAR is probably just a bit embarrassed that he doesn't know how to convert it and upload it to youtube, so he's saving face by pretending that he simply doesn't want to. :rolleyes:
 
BasementDweller said:
... Did David Howard play Mike LeBron in this tourney?
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Yes.

First Round:
Hall def. Hopkins 5-3
Lebron d. Rempe 5-4
Davenport d. Sigel 5-4
Howard d. Varner 5-0​

Second Round (Semi-Finals):
Hall d. Davenport 5-3
Lebron d. Howard 5-3​

Finals:
Lebron d. Hall 9-8 (The match was tied at 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8)​
Game 16​
L: Dry break
H: Ran to the 8 and missed it
L: Missed 8
H: Out​

Game 17​
H: Made 4 on break, scratched on the 1
L: Made 1, missed 2
H: Ran to 8, missed 8-9 combo
L: Out​

Interesting footnote: "Meucci Originals, Inc. donated an assortment of limited edition cues, that sold for prices ranging from $300 to $500. The proceeds went to the professional players that did not cash in the event." The cues were auctioned by Jay Helfert, who also auctioned several items for various charities.

[Source of information: Pool & Billiard Magazine, Dec. 1991]
 
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