If You would open a new billiard room what city and why do you think it would be a great location. maybe florida or arizona.
where would u open a new billiard room
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Are you going for a retirement community with expendable income? I think Florida might be good, but how many seniors male & female actually still play pool. If it were me I would go after a college community. A city with multiple colleges. The down side to that would be how many would you be causing to fail or drop out of college.
Just a quick thought,
Just a quick thought,
Communities where singles or single couples live, close to downtown areas. Check all high rises in the area and see the class of people live in them
Living in phoenix I've noticed there is no pool hall in the paradise valley scottsdale area that I've found. Also nothing that compared to Clicks that was in tempe. A lot of the pool places I've come across aren't all that. Clicks was a gentlemans place to play with high stakes. They had nice tables, sold cues, full bar and great service. The ones I see now are more of a bar with a lot of tables. Not some place I'd like to spend a lot of time or money at.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
El-ahrairah
Banned
Lansing, MI. The only place left is Pockets, and they don't draw much of a crowd anymore. Approx. 120k people in the city, easily that many business professionals coming into the city 5 days a week to work. Downtown totally upscale. I'm actually trying to make a list of reasons not to open one, and have already looked at a couple of buildings.
Denver Colorado
You could call it 420 Highlands/
if not Denver then a town on the front range.
You could call it 420 Highlands/
if not Denver then a town on the front range.
Fernandina Florida. I would have 4 to 6 great tables, Pool would be FREE.
The rest of the place would be a Bar, no food as that might conifine to non smoking.
On the other side of place would be Darts.
My Waitresess would be Models from ModelMayhem.com that were having a rough go due to economy.
I figure it would clear right at 200K a year.
City?
How about a poolroom/cruise ship that stays in international waters?
Think of the possibilities!
How about a poolroom/cruise ship that stays in international waters?
Think of the possibilities!
I can't relocate so I would have to start one here in Des Moines. It is in a prime "middle" spot in the midwest with short drives (4 hours or less) from Minneapolis, Omaha, Davenport, Kansas City etc...
I have a business management degree and have put together a business plan for starting a pool hall in college (about 75-80 pages) so I have a very good idea of all that is involved. Des Moines would be tough with the market and Big Dogs already being out there though. I obviously want them to succeed, but I also want to bring in the big guns from all around the area for tournament/events etc, while making it a great place for the bangers/league players to come and have fun.
All I need is the capital :frown: ....minor detail.
I have a business management degree and have put together a business plan for starting a pool hall in college (about 75-80 pages) so I have a very good idea of all that is involved. Des Moines would be tough with the market and Big Dogs already being out there though. I obviously want them to succeed, but I also want to bring in the big guns from all around the area for tournament/events etc, while making it a great place for the bangers/league players to come and have fun.
All I need is the capital :frown: ....minor detail.
You comment says it all about the state of pool in America. If a "heartland" city like Lansing...which is the home of Michigan State University...has only ONE pool hall left and IT doesn't even draw "much of a crowd" speaks volumes.
Here in Boise...with double Lansing's population, the MAIN room that gets almost all the league pay has a bunch of OLD BEATER Valley tables with nappy cloth no less.
The best tables in town are at the Boise State Student Union...all 1960s Gold Crowns with TWO INCH SLATE go for a stinking 5 bucks an hour! I would imagine that Mich. State's Student Union probably has good tables too.
I don't want to start another p*ssing contest about smoking but the fact is that the vast majority of the major rooms have allowed smoking for the last several decades which literally choked off (pun intended) the willingness of parents to allow their kids into those joints EVEN IF they could have gotten past the generally sleezy reputation pool has had for the last century in this country.
Seems to me that those considering opening first rate pool rooms with quality tables and cloth have something resembling a financial death wish.
Too bad.
EagleMan
PS: I KNOW that there are examples of great rooms doing very well in a few cities. But it is virtually beyond debate that their numbers are declining as the poster confirms in Lansing.
ANY population center of 50,000 people or more can support a nice mid-sized poolroom/sports bar. That's the only way to go with at least beer and wine. Without any alcohol you're almost dead in the water. The sports bar theme with lots of big screen TV's still works if done right. You need a good location, lots of free parking, affordable rent with good lease terms, decent fast food like pizzas and burgers, GOOD equipment (both full size and bar tables), and some attractive (and honest!) girls working for you.
DO NOT be an absentee owner, you will fail! Treat your customers right and you will succeed. Advertise and promote your room heavily during the first six months and word of mouth will take over after that. A few video games (they love driving and shooting games, air hockey is very good but loud and pop-a-shot basketball is great!) are good and don't forget your juke box (all digital now) and ATM machine. 5-7,000 square feet is more than enough space for a mid sized room, with a bar and adequate seating around the tables. 4,000 or less is on the small side and 8,000 or more is getting big. Now you're good to go!
Oh one more thing, have extra working capital for the first year. You'll need it! You might get open for 150K, but you need a minimum of 50K behind you. If you open on short money you're in trouble. A nice mid sized room can be set up for 150-250K, depending on how far you want to go. You don't need all new tables, just good ones, set up correctly. Motivated landlords will help you with renovating the space (bathrooms, bar and kitchen can be expensive) and give you some free time initially. Most will give you at least three months to get open and underway. One month free is not enough! You need two months minimum.
You can earn 150-200K owning a room like this, but you will have a FULL TIME job! Seven days a week, maybe 60 hours a week. After everything is running smooth, you might get down to a 40-50 hour week if your lucky. Make Monday your day off, you want to be there on the weekends when your making money!
Good luck!
DO NOT be an absentee owner, you will fail! Treat your customers right and you will succeed. Advertise and promote your room heavily during the first six months and word of mouth will take over after that. A few video games (they love driving and shooting games, air hockey is very good but loud and pop-a-shot basketball is great!) are good and don't forget your juke box (all digital now) and ATM machine. 5-7,000 square feet is more than enough space for a mid sized room, with a bar and adequate seating around the tables. 4,000 or less is on the small side and 8,000 or more is getting big. Now you're good to go!
Oh one more thing, have extra working capital for the first year. You'll need it! You might get open for 150K, but you need a minimum of 50K behind you. If you open on short money you're in trouble. A nice mid sized room can be set up for 150-250K, depending on how far you want to go. You don't need all new tables, just good ones, set up correctly. Motivated landlords will help you with renovating the space (bathrooms, bar and kitchen can be expensive) and give you some free time initially. Most will give you at least three months to get open and underway. One month free is not enough! You need two months minimum.
You can earn 150-200K owning a room like this, but you will have a FULL TIME job! Seven days a week, maybe 60 hours a week. After everything is running smooth, you might get down to a 40-50 hour week if your lucky. Make Monday your day off, you want to be there on the weekends when your making money!
Good luck!
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Just wondering, what is a single couple?
Might be a little tough to keep the tables level.:thumbup:
Great Advice
In regards to the OP, I cannot think of any location that I would open a Billiard Room of any substantial size. The risk factors are too high right now. It's more about the Timing than the Location. Major cities are full of struggling Billiard Rooms. There is no economic upsurge to coincide with a catalyst(i.e. Color of Money) to quantify the risk. I would say, be patient, hold on to your capital, study trends, consider age/income demographics. Then, spend your money wisely. It is a long term(Lifetime) investment.
Good Luck.
Great advice Jay! Planning to have backup capital is true in any business. Food service wstablishments need extra capital to recoup spoilage and loss due to major storms(power outages) and other natural disasters.
In regards to the OP, I cannot think of any location that I would open a Billiard Room of any substantial size. The risk factors are too high right now. It's more about the Timing than the Location. Major cities are full of struggling Billiard Rooms. There is no economic upsurge to coincide with a catalyst(i.e. Color of Money) to quantify the risk. I would say, be patient, hold on to your capital, study trends, consider age/income demographics. Then, spend your money wisely. It is a long term(Lifetime) investment.
Good Luck.
not married, boy friend/girl friend relations..
ANY population center of 50,000 people or more can support a nice mid-sized poolroom/sports bar. This "may be true" but is more complicated then just this answer. It's an optimistic answer for sure though. Part of it depends on not only your definition of support a nice sized poolroom/sports bar, but as well as what is the owners goal. That's the only way to go with at least beer and wine. Without any alcohol you're almost dead in the water. Agree 100% from an incoming flow of income viewpoint. The sports bar theme with lots of big screen TV's still works if done right. Once again it depends on what do you want to accomplish i.e. just a poolroom/sports bar, or just pool room, or event location/poolroom etc...can list more ideas if need be You need a good location, lots of free parking, affordable rent with good lease terms, decent fast food like pizzas and burgers, GOOD equipment (both full size and bar tables), and some attractive (and honest!) girls working for you. All this is good, but not necessarily true if the owner/hired help are good "pool members" in the community....still good ideas though.
DO NOT be an absentee owner, you will fail! Treat your customers right and you will succeed. Advertise and promote your room heavily during the first six months and word of mouth will take over after that. A few video games (they love driving and shooting games, air hockey is very good but loud and pop-a-shot basketball is great!) are good and don't forget your juke box (all digital now) and ATM machine. 5-7,000 square feet is more than enough space for a mid sized room, with a bar and adequate seating around the tables. 4,000 or less is on the small side and 8,000 or more is getting big. Now you're good to go! Once again understanding your target market, what you want to accomplish are important factors on what you want to include...the ATM/juke box are definitely no brainers and should be included. Seating/space is an over rated item from a pool players viewpoint that I would highly recommend making sure it is done right.
Oh one more thing, have extra working capital for the first year. You'll need it! This is very important, expect a loss for the first 2-3 years and be prepared financially for it (worst case scenario). You may succeed right away but always be prepared for the worst. As for the $ amount it will depend on a lot of factors of course. You might get open for 150K, but you need a minimum of 50K behind you. If you open on short money you're in trouble. A nice mid sized room can be set up for 150-250K, depending on how far you want to go. You don't need all new tables, just good ones, set up correctly. Motivated landlords will help you with renovating the space (bathrooms, bar and kitchen can be expensive) and give you some free time initially. Most will give you at least three months to get open and underway. One month free is not enough! You need two months minimum. Potentially negotiable I would say...also make sure you know the difference between owning vs renting the property
You can earn 150-200K owning a room like this, but you will have a FULL TIME job! Seven days a week, maybe 60 hours a week. After everything is running smooth, you might get down to a 40-50 hour week if your lucky. Make Monday your day off, you want to be there on the weekends when your making money!
Good luck!
Hey Jay, responses in red (nice post).
El-ahrairah
Banned
You make some good points, but I don't think it's as bad as that here. Let me explain more.
Pockets doesn't draw because of a couple reasons, imo. Reason one is that it's in pretty much the worst area of the city. Second reason would be the parking lot is tiny, full of potholes, cars get broken into and a person was shot and killed standing in it or walking near it or whatever the story was, in broad daylight.
The owner is about as nice and dedicated a human being as you could ask for, but he seems buried.
I play there virtually every day and I won't leave my car in the parking lot, so it's an issue.
Playing there, I sometimes see the downtown business type person come in to check it out, but they rarely stay. It's pretty much just die hards and practice warriors like me.
Most of the ideas Jay laid out are already in our plans. They seemed like common sense to me. Also, I'm in the position that I don't need the place to make money. All it has to do is not lose too much.
My thinking is, someplace downtown, with a nice mix of equipment new and used, darts, clean, safe, tons of parking...how could it not break even?
I'm not trying to argue, by any means. Quite the opposite. I'd like to be shooting practice drills at this new place before fall of 2013, I'll take all the input I can get from the general pool public in an effort to bring pool back around here.
Oh, also, I love Pockets. I would not like to be the guy who put them under.