8-ball break on valley bar tables

[Eddie May]

Is there a rule against pattern racking? Then its not cheating... I do it. If they make a rule against I'd stop. I think now for me its just a habit and I don't think it gives me much of An advantage

Hence my statement... Most likely cause you suck.....

Go read back in this thread pretty sure your almighty perfection squad made some comments about NOT PATTERN RACKING, and about having the balls random.

And the fact that you would call 2 of the best to ever play the game from the US cheats goes to show how ****ing ignorant you are.

 

[PETROBOY]

Is there a rule against pattern racking? Then its not cheating... I do it. If they make a rule against I'd stop. I think now for me its just a habit and I don't think it gives me much of An advantage

Im afraid there is such a rule

2.2 Nine Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the apex of the diamond and on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle of the diamond. The other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern.

3.2 Eight Ball Rack
The fifteen object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangle, with the apex ball on the foot spot and the eight ball as the first ball that is directly below the apex ball. One from each group of seven will be on the two lower corners of the triangle. The other balls are placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern.

 

[trob]

Hence my statement... Most likely cause you suck.....

Go read back in this thread pretty sure your almighty perfection squad made some comments about NOT PATTERN RACKING, and about having the balls random.

And the fact that you would call 2 of the best to ever play the game from the US cheats goes to show how ****ing ignorant you are.

I honestly think you're mentally handicapped lol I don't care if your the best...that doesn't mean you can intentionally cheat lol so Payton Manning is the best qb in the world...does that mean he can intentionally not follow the rules and we should look the other way . lol OF COURSE NOT! Hahathe old saying is true.... Don't argue with idiots...they'll bring you down to there level then beat you with experience. I promise IM not giving you a minute more of my time

 

[trob]

Im afraid there is such a rule

2.2 Nine Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the apex of the diamond and on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle of the diamond. The other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern.

3.2 Eight Ball Rack
The fifteen object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangle, with the apex ball on the foot spot and the eight ball as the first ball that is directly below the apex ball. One from each group of seven will be on the two lower corners of the triangle. The other balls are placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern.

Now that I know I won't do it again...thanks

 

[chefjeff]

And if your opponent was cheating such that it would be improbable that you could win, what would be your reply?

I'd call him on it, like I did in this thread.

If he insisted on still cheating, I'd demand he stop.

If he doesn't stop, I'd quit if it didn't matter.

If others were involved, too, (league or tourney), I'd get an official (captains, LO, etc) to intervene.

If I was gambling and caught him cheating, I'd get paid right then and there and quit him. If he didn't pay, I'd do what I've been forced to do in halls and bars many times before: I'd make him pay what he owed. That is, I'd use moral self-defense techniques to take back control of my rightful property.

Then I'd re-expose the lickboy to others I care about so they, too, could protect themselves from his cheatin' ways.

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

Im not going to go out of my way to quote all the nits and suckers who quoted me, (snip).

I proudly on that list. You can quote me on that.

Jeff Livingston

 

[SchoolinU]

Is there a rule against pattern racking? Then its not cheating... I do it. If they make a rule against I'd stop. I think now for me its just a habit and I don't think it gives me much of An advantage

.......Parting note... If you are honestly and truely a honorable, law abiding, truth telling individual then we all have a lot to learn from you. But what really grinds my gears is people who live an average life, telling white lies, breaking rules, and doing what they need to get by coming on a forum board acting like they are the virgin mary.

........I on the other hand have come to terms with the fake that the world is a grimey place, and try to find my place in it. I don't try to pretend I am something I am not.

This isn't about whether the world is a good place, or whether people are good, because the world is not a good place and nobody is truley good. But that's not an excuse to conform to the world, or to intentionally be a decieving person. This boils down to moral compass. Do you go into every situation with the full intent of behaving honorably and with integrity, but sometimes fall short. Or do you go into every situation looking to lie and cheat to further your own ambitions. I'm not calling anybody out.

I do take exception with the "if it isn't against the rules...". As a society, we have let the 10 billion rules and laws give us an excuse to ignore our concience. If you're advantage has nothing to do with how well you pot balls and play position, and strategize your layout, well then a red flag should pop up in your mind.

I'll write it down. Is this ethical?

What does your heart tell you? You're going to leave it to a forum of strangers to guide your moral and ethical principals? I can't help but think that you've sort of gotten backed into a corner on this issue and that you didn't necessarily come into this looking for a way to cheat. But I don't care one way or another. Nobody's perfect, but if you live by the golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", that will generally lead you to the moral and ethical answer.
Just in case it doesn't.....No, it's not ethical.

This thread has taught me one good thing, I need to start checking racks.

 

[ChrisBanks]

The "Golden Rule" has a weak premise. Now imagine that a man wishes to be beaten and whipped whenever he acts immoral, so that he will be less likely to want to do it again.

By applying the golden rule in his actions, he will beat and whip those who act immoral, because that is what he would have wished done to himself.

Now imagine the man who would permit another to steal from him if this other individual needed the money to buy Christmas presents for his daughter.

By applying the golden rule, the man who permits the stealing must steal from you if he happens to be without the money to buy presents for his daughter.

And from here you can see the degeneration of this rule, and why it cannot be used as a maxim. As you can surely illuminate an endless amount of scenarios that you might not tolerate.

We might be able to substitute a similar, but certainly distinct maxim: "Do not use other people as means to an end. Consider all people as ends themselves." Now we can begin to criticize this maxim, but it will be more rigorous than criticizing the golden rule.

 

[chefjeff]

The "Golden Rule" has a weak premise. Now imagine that a man wishes to be beaten and whipped whenever he acts immoral, so that he will be less likely to want to do it again.

By applying the golden rule in his actions, he will beat and whip those who act immoral, because that is what he would have wished done to himself.

Now imagine the man who would permit another to steal from him if this other individual needed the money to buy Christmas presents for his daughter.

By applying the golden rule, the man who permits the stealing must steal from you if he happens to be without the money to buy presents for his daughter.

And from here you can see the degeneration of this rule, and why it cannot be used as a maxim. As you can surely illuminate an endless amount of scenarios that you might not tolerate.

We might be able to substitute a similar, but certainly distinct maxim: "Do not use other people as means to an end. Consider all people as ends themselves." Now we can begin to criticize this maxim, but it will be more rigorous than criticizing the golden rule.

I prefer the more accurate, Do not do unto others what you do not want them to do to you. That keeps the rule in accord with negative rights, as opposed to the positivism so prevalent in today's political climate.

Jeff Livingston

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Rackem tight and on the spot start on the spot with the cue move left half way between the spot and the next diamond to the left use one tip right and half a tip low and hit front ball square use a good medium-hard hit and snap ur wrist on impact with cue ball if im playing good i break and run 80% of the time and make a ball a good 90% of the time but if ur aim is off ull scratch in a side everytime

Those are better than pro stats!! Truly amazing! Also if I hit the cueball low with a medium hard break stroke, my cue ball will draw like crazy...easily back to the head rail and back up table. Lots of scratch possibilities. How do you avoid this?

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I'll write it down. Is this ethical?

If you have to ask, does it matter?

(of course it isn't ethical!!)

KMRUNOUT

 

[ChrisBanks]

Do I need to rack the head ball directly in the center of the footspot. Or can the base of the ball lie anywhere on the footspot? Do I have room to maneuver here?

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Fortunately, your words are here for others to see. Therefore a retort is not necessary.

Haha!!! Awesome!

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Pattern racking is quite obnoxious and gives just as big of an advantage as tilting a rack or leaving a gap if you know how to play that rack.

I am not saying that just because you do one bad, continue doing more bad. What I was saying is, is the pot really going to call the kettle black?

Is the kettle not black just because it was the pot that pointed it out?

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

The "Golden Rule" has a weak premise. Now imagine that a man wishes to be beaten and whipped whenever he acts immoral, so that he will be less likely to want to do it again.

By applying the golden rule in his actions, he will beat and whip those who act immoral, because that is what he would have wished done to himself.

Now imagine the man who would permit another to steal from him if this other individual needed the money to buy Christmas presents for his daughter.

By applying the golden rule, the man who permits the stealing must steal from you if he happens to be without the money to buy presents for his daughter.

And from here you can see the degeneration of this rule, and why it cannot be used as a maxim. As you can surely illuminate an endless amount of scenarios that you might not tolerate.

We might be able to substitute a similar, but certainly distinct maxim: "Do not use other people as means to an end. Consider all people as ends themselves." Now we can begin to criticize this maxim, but it will be more rigorous than criticizing the golden rule.

You have clearly not thought this post through very well. Decisions like you mentioned do not exist in a vacuum. The man that wishes to be beaten and whipped may also believe that personal space is to be respected. Also he may believe that people should not be whipped and beaten without their consent. There are many layers to the example that you overlooked. There is nothing wrong with the Golden Rule, only with peoples ability to accurately observe it. Shortsighted examples like this don't help (although they might help *you* get some perspective from others)

KMRUNOUT

 

[ChrisBanks]

I've heard that APA leagues have "sandbaggers." And that perhaps it is an even worse offense than racking advantageously.

 

[ChrisBanks]

You have clearly not thought this post through very well. Decisions like you mentioned do not exist in a vacuum. The man that wishes to be beaten and whipped may also believe that personal space is to be respected. Also he may believe that people should not be whipped and beaten without their consent. There are many layers to the example that you overlooked. There is nothing wrong with the Golden Rule, only with peoples ability to accurately observe it. Shortsighted examples like this don't help (although they might help *you* get some perspective from others)

KMRUNOUT

OK then dear friend. You are a judge and I am a defendant in a trial. I am found guilty, and you are in charge of determining my sentence.

You sentence me to a prison term. I immediately supply a rebuttal, citing the golden rule as my support.

"Surely your honor, you would not send me to prison. As most certainly you yourself would not wish to be sent to prison. So in accordance with the golden rule, you will not do to those which you would not want done to yourself. And would you wish to be sent to prison? Then you will not send others to prison if you support the golden rule."

And then I pivot on my heel, and exit the court room.

 

[PETROBOY]

I've heard that APA leagues have "sandbaggers." And that perhaps it is an even worse offense than racking advantageously.

Are you waiting for someone to say its ok to rig a rack and cheat??? How could you even remotely think this is ok??? this thread should show you that everyone thinks its cheating therefore you should be thinking that it shouldnt be done. If you want to make balls on the break everytime do what all the pros do PRACTICE. I would quit pool before I ever started cheating but then again Im not a poor player and only way to win is to cheat. Maybe you should take up solitaire so the only one affected by your cheating is you.

 

[ChrisBanks]

Are you waiting for someone to say its ok to rig a rack and cheat??? How could you even remotely think this is ok??? this thread should show you that everyone thinks its cheating therefore you should be thinking that it shouldnt be done. If you want to make balls on the break everytime do what all the pros do PRACTICE. I would quit pool before I ever started cheating but then again Im not a poor player and only way to win is to cheat. Maybe you should take up solitaire so the only one affected by your cheating is you.

You're putting all of this in a bad light. But I have another question for you. If my opponent is racking for me, is it ethical to analyze his rack in order to attempt the most profitable break for myself?

 

[PETROBOY]

You're putting all of this in a bad light. But I have another question for you. If my opponent is racking for me, is it ethical to analyze his rack in order to attempt the most profitable break for myself?

What's wrong with that? Your not cheating your just looking to see what's best for you.