Someone needs to change the Wikipedia entry then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Mosconi#526_high_run
Too bad JAM isn't here, she has editing privileges on Wikipedia.
can mosconi's high run be beat'n?
- Thread starter sr 9ball
- Start date
Someone needs to change the Wikipedia entry then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Mosconi#526_high_run
Too bad JAM isn't here, she has editing privileges on Wikipedia.
Speaking of Willie Mosconi, how many of you have seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyhJ69mD7xI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyhJ69mD7xI
Some people may have run more than 526 balls in practice, but then again, Willie probably did too. Who knows what his all time high run was. As for the large pockets, IMHO, those pockets also made it much easier to scratch. And, who knows what kind of condition that table was in.
I'd love to see someone try to break the record. But give the man his due, it was a great run.
I'd love to see someone try to break the record. But give the man his due, it was a great run.
Surely among the oldest, but not the oldest. For example, baseball player Rogers Hornsby batted .424 in 1924 and nobody has topped it yet. Another baseball player, Hack Wilson, drove in 190 runs in 1930, and nobody has topped it since.
A side note to the 526 run that is almost as incredible is that the table that Willie Mosconi ran the record on was sold to at least 3 different people at the same time.
I have my doubts that any of them were the actual table after hearing all the tales about the person who sold them.
I have my doubts that any of them were the actual table after hearing all the tales about the person who sold them.
Keep in mind
Willie was doing exhibitions for Brunswick along with Ralph Greenleaf and all the other top players. He was forbidden to play on any pool tables while under contract to Brunswick that were not Brunswick original tables. The same applied to all the other pros under contract with Brunswick.
The 4x8 table(s) was the only Brunswick table(s) in the pool hall as all the other tables (5'x10') were not Brunswick tables. As such, neither Willie, nor any other pro player under contract with Brunswick, could even pocket a single ball on a table that wasn't a Brunswick pool table. That's why Willie's record was on a 4x8 table.
Now before anyone wants to talk about comparing their prowness or abilities with Mr. M, let all mortals take heed of his tounament record runs and runouts and consecutive world championships. Remember that the US Championship wasn't a single game or a race to seven or anything like that. It was a race to 2500 points and each game's score was counted in the cumulative total race to 2500 points (pocketed balls).
To say that Willie dominated the competition is like trying to compare Babe Ruth with any other MLB of that same era..........there simply is no comparison that can be made......Ruth was and will always be bigger than life. The same has to be said about Willie........the 526 balls was just one of what's a littany of world records that has never been matched.........Straight Pool was and will always be the best measure of overall pool skills and sadly, it's becoming a lost art form.
There's been lots of rumors about someone breaking Willie's record.........remember that Willie was doing two a day exhibitions at that time he ran 526 balls and he had already played in an exhibition that morning and had to drive long distances in between exhibition locations. The point is he didn't sleep in an air conditioned hotel room the night before, wake up, have breakfast and then leisurely stroll into the pool room to set a record like a player might attempt to do today.
Nope Willie had already played that day, had lunch, got in the car and drove to the next stop. When he got there, he didn't get to practice because he had to play. Typically, he played the best local and usually let the fellow look good by not crushing the poor soul. After winning the match, Willie would typically perform a series of trick shots for the spectators and then move on to the next destination again driving long distances.
All in all, Willie Mosconi's record of 526 balls may get broken at some point but that doesn't matter because even Willie would admit that's what records are for.....setting new ones. But rest assured the conditions will never emulate what Willie and other pros had to endure back in the day. Being on the road was a much harder, tougher routine than it is today. Let's see when all is said and done how anyone's else's record in straight pool ultimately compares with Willie's accomplishments.
P.S. Look at how many of Willie's tournament world records were accomplished on 5'x10 tables versus the 9' tables pros play on today.
His one inning average and balls pocketed in championship tournament play is astounding and that was done in the 40's & 50's on 10' tables.
Willie was doing exhibitions for Brunswick along with Ralph Greenleaf and all the other top players. He was forbidden to play on any pool tables while under contract to Brunswick that were not Brunswick original tables. The same applied to all the other pros under contract with Brunswick.
The 4x8 table(s) was the only Brunswick table(s) in the pool hall as all the other tables (5'x10') were not Brunswick tables. As such, neither Willie, nor any other pro player under contract with Brunswick, could even pocket a single ball on a table that wasn't a Brunswick pool table. That's why Willie's record was on a 4x8 table.
Now before anyone wants to talk about comparing their prowness or abilities with Mr. M, let all mortals take heed of his tounament record runs and runouts and consecutive world championships. Remember that the US Championship wasn't a single game or a race to seven or anything like that. It was a race to 2500 points and each game's score was counted in the cumulative total race to 2500 points (pocketed balls).
To say that Willie dominated the competition is like trying to compare Babe Ruth with any other MLB of that same era..........there simply is no comparison that can be made......Ruth was and will always be bigger than life. The same has to be said about Willie........the 526 balls was just one of what's a littany of world records that has never been matched.........Straight Pool was and will always be the best measure of overall pool skills and sadly, it's becoming a lost art form.
There's been lots of rumors about someone breaking Willie's record.........remember that Willie was doing two a day exhibitions at that time he ran 526 balls and he had already played in an exhibition that morning and had to drive long distances in between exhibition locations. The point is he didn't sleep in an air conditioned hotel room the night before, wake up, have breakfast and then leisurely stroll into the pool room to set a record like a player might attempt to do today.
Nope Willie had already played that day, had lunch, got in the car and drove to the next stop. When he got there, he didn't get to practice because he had to play. Typically, he played the best local and usually let the fellow look good by not crushing the poor soul. After winning the match, Willie would typically perform a series of trick shots for the spectators and then move on to the next destination again driving long distances.
All in all, Willie Mosconi's record of 526 balls may get broken at some point but that doesn't matter because even Willie would admit that's what records are for.....setting new ones. But rest assured the conditions will never emulate what Willie and other pros had to endure back in the day. Being on the road was a much harder, tougher routine than it is today. Let's see when all is said and done how anyone's else's record in straight pool ultimately compares with Willie's accomplishments.
P.S. Look at how many of Willie's tournament world records were accomplished on 5'x10 tables versus the 9' tables pros play on today.
His one inning average and balls pocketed in championship tournament play is astounding and that was done in the 40's & 50's on 10' tables.
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Todays balls , cloth . cues . chalk might make it easier than playing on a 4 by 8 with old dead balls on a slow cloth ...Arimas balls , measle cue ball , better chalk and tips .fast cloth , springy rails make breaking up the rack a lot easier ...Can it be done on the using the old equipment ? I doubt it !
badntx makes some good points
Keep in mind that when Willie was doing these exhibitions, these locations were mostly in smaller towns across the country. Sure, he put on exhibitions in cities like Baltimore, Chicago, Newark, Kamsas City, B'klyn, N.Y. etc. However, the vast majority of locations were scattered throughout the US and were mainly small town venues.
Consequently, the pool halls were typically smaller, the equipment less than spectacular and there wasn't any air conditioning. Ever play pool on when it was raining, and the cloth seemed a litle damp? Even the cushions play differently when there's significant humidity and without air conditioning in the summer months and on really humid days, tables played differently. I mean he wasn't playing on Simonis cloth in those pool halls and rest assured he had to learn the table after taking his very first shot playing on it.
Willie customarily wore a suit and tie when he played pool, or even sometimes a tuxedo when it was the US Championship. He wasn't playing in a casual shirt like today's pros and so when it was hot or humid, you had to endure the environment. The most casual he ever got during an exhibition was playing in a white shirt and tie after removing his suit jacket. That's how things were done back in those days and his autobiogrpahy spells all of this out very plainly. After he retired, Willie wore a casual shirt with the ABC logo on the Wide World of Sports shows he did. His autobiography is really enjoyable reading and you learn quite about Willie as a person and also in all probability the greatest pocket billiards player in history.
Making comparisons of players from different eras is hard to do in any sport. let alone pool. I say this...........the record will never be broken................until someone proves me and most other pundits wrong. Regardless, Willie's status would never be diminished in any way when that record falls. It's his total body of work that distinguishes his greatness and as far as I'm concerned, immortality. I say that because since Willie went to that great pool hall in the sky, no one......get that........NO ONE has even come close to duplicating his records or total domination ........not partial domination.....not winning the majority of tournaments.........WILLIE TOTALLY DOMINATED THE VERY BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD.......AND IN CONSECUTIVE DECADES.
When you take the time to look closely at the list of players he beat (ever heard of Ralpf Greenleaf) and examine Willie's scoring proficiency per inning, balls consecutively pocketed in tournament play........AGAIN THIS WAS DONE ON 5'X10' TABLES......it's unimaginable any player today could be validly compared with Willie Mosconi's greatness or pool abilities. The 10' table is a monster table to play on and you should try it sometimes. Just play on a standard size billiards table and you'll realize how this adds to the challenge.
So let me to close with this simple thought......................................"NUF SED!".
Keep in mind that when Willie was doing these exhibitions, these locations were mostly in smaller towns across the country. Sure, he put on exhibitions in cities like Baltimore, Chicago, Newark, Kamsas City, B'klyn, N.Y. etc. However, the vast majority of locations were scattered throughout the US and were mainly small town venues.
Consequently, the pool halls were typically smaller, the equipment less than spectacular and there wasn't any air conditioning. Ever play pool on when it was raining, and the cloth seemed a litle damp? Even the cushions play differently when there's significant humidity and without air conditioning in the summer months and on really humid days, tables played differently. I mean he wasn't playing on Simonis cloth in those pool halls and rest assured he had to learn the table after taking his very first shot playing on it.
Willie customarily wore a suit and tie when he played pool, or even sometimes a tuxedo when it was the US Championship. He wasn't playing in a casual shirt like today's pros and so when it was hot or humid, you had to endure the environment. The most casual he ever got during an exhibition was playing in a white shirt and tie after removing his suit jacket. That's how things were done back in those days and his autobiogrpahy spells all of this out very plainly. After he retired, Willie wore a casual shirt with the ABC logo on the Wide World of Sports shows he did. His autobiography is really enjoyable reading and you learn quite about Willie as a person and also in all probability the greatest pocket billiards player in history.
Making comparisons of players from different eras is hard to do in any sport. let alone pool. I say this...........the record will never be broken................until someone proves me and most other pundits wrong. Regardless, Willie's status would never be diminished in any way when that record falls. It's his total body of work that distinguishes his greatness and as far as I'm concerned, immortality. I say that because since Willie went to that great pool hall in the sky, no one......get that........NO ONE has even come close to duplicating his records or total domination ........not partial domination.....not winning the majority of tournaments.........WILLIE TOTALLY DOMINATED THE VERY BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD.......AND IN CONSECUTIVE DECADES.
When you take the time to look closely at the list of players he beat (ever heard of Ralpf Greenleaf) and examine Willie's scoring proficiency per inning, balls consecutively pocketed in tournament play........AGAIN THIS WAS DONE ON 5'X10' TABLES......it's unimaginable any player today could be validly compared with Willie Mosconi's greatness or pool abilities. The 10' table is a monster table to play on and you should try it sometimes. Just play on a standard size billiards table and you'll realize how this adds to the challenge.
So let me to close with this simple thought......................................"NUF SED!".
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At the end of this interview he claims he got tired and quit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qRKw56oAA-E#t=434s
I am not sure when worsted woolen cloth became the norm but Simonis has been making and supplying pool and billiard table cloth to the American market for more than 100 years.
So it's not inconceivable that Willie played on Simonis a time or two. Regarding the 8ft table all of us know that an 8 ft table with big pockets is a joke to run out on. Someone with Willie's touch and mastery of the cue ball it would have seemed like bowling downhill with a boulder in my opinion.
No one is diminishing Willie's record, just putting it in context which is what a discussion should do. Yes Willie played under different conditions, but they did in fact have indoor air conditioning and fans back in the 50s. But even if they didn't the conditions were the conditions and Mosconi was used to them.
Perhaps the conditions today are actually far WORSE to make big runs? Balls that slide and skid, less competition, no real financial reward for being the best straight pool player in the world, balls that are far more bouncy....
It's true that Willie was doing one or two exhibitions a day. And in a lot of them, probably in most of them, he would flat out STOP playing when the score reached 150 or whatever the number was that he and the local were playing to. So the fact that he continued was actually extraordinary.
But that doesn't change the fact that the 526 HAS been beaten several times. Just not "officially".
And it does not change the fact that running a 490 on a shimmed 9ft Gold Crown is WAY harder than a 526 on a loose 4x8, at least in my opinion. I'd like to see the mathematicians among us figure out the comparison.
Yes, Willie dominated for a long time. Yes he was the king of the challenge match format which, like boxing, determined the World Champion. And while he did not win all the round robin events he entered he won enough of them to cement his place in tournament play as well.
No one is trying to take any of that away. Just simply saying that the high run record, remarkable as it is, is not Willie's greatest accomplishment and that it has been and can be beaten. If it does Willie still holds many records which will live on for eternity because 14.1 is not the dominant game and therefore the opportunities to become a World Champion, National Champion, or even city champion are very few.
Perhaps the world's best 14.1 players should consider returning to the old round robin way of doing it with challenge matches to determine the World Champion. Thus anyone who beats the current champ in a title fight will be the World Champion.
So it's not inconceivable that Willie played on Simonis a time or two. Regarding the 8ft table all of us know that an 8 ft table with big pockets is a joke to run out on. Someone with Willie's touch and mastery of the cue ball it would have seemed like bowling downhill with a boulder in my opinion.
No one is diminishing Willie's record, just putting it in context which is what a discussion should do. Yes Willie played under different conditions, but they did in fact have indoor air conditioning and fans back in the 50s. But even if they didn't the conditions were the conditions and Mosconi was used to them.
Perhaps the conditions today are actually far WORSE to make big runs? Balls that slide and skid, less competition, no real financial reward for being the best straight pool player in the world, balls that are far more bouncy....
It's true that Willie was doing one or two exhibitions a day. And in a lot of them, probably in most of them, he would flat out STOP playing when the score reached 150 or whatever the number was that he and the local were playing to. So the fact that he continued was actually extraordinary.
But that doesn't change the fact that the 526 HAS been beaten several times. Just not "officially".
And it does not change the fact that running a 490 on a shimmed 9ft Gold Crown is WAY harder than a 526 on a loose 4x8, at least in my opinion. I'd like to see the mathematicians among us figure out the comparison.
Yes, Willie dominated for a long time. Yes he was the king of the challenge match format which, like boxing, determined the World Champion. And while he did not win all the round robin events he entered he won enough of them to cement his place in tournament play as well.
No one is trying to take any of that away. Just simply saying that the high run record, remarkable as it is, is not Willie's greatest accomplishment and that it has been and can be beaten. If it does Willie still holds many records which will live on for eternity because 14.1 is not the dominant game and therefore the opportunities to become a World Champion, National Champion, or even city champion are very few.
Perhaps the world's best 14.1 players should consider returning to the old round robin way of doing it with challenge matches to determine the World Champion. Thus anyone who beats the current champ in a title fight will be the World Champion.
I wanted to see the affidavit.
Funny that the name of the room was Easy High Billiards and the 4x8 table used is reported to have had 5.25" pockets. I have seen big pockets but I can't recall ever seeing any that big. That's .75 inches wider than two balls and with a shallow shelf.....
Maybe Mosconi did just get tired because I don't know how he would ever miss on a table like that.
Edit: Oops I misread the handwriting. It's East High Billiards not Easy High.
Anyone who has ever played 14.1 should know that a LOT of grief can and DOES happen off the breakout shot.
You can just get FLAT HOOKED...and playing a great safety doesn't get you to a world record score.
So I don't care what kind of buckets they used for pockets....running out
~35 times in a row is the stuff of legends.
(-:
EagleMan
Nah....if it COULD fall quickly, it WOULD fall quickly. Don't you think the top 14.1 players would give at least one of their privates to beat Mosconi's record???
As I stated elsewhere. $shit happens off the break and having to break out clusters and making frozen combos that LOOK dead but aren't...just an endless number of things that can...always have...and always WILL go wrong to bust a very long run.
Just maintaing FOCUS for...what...5-6 HOURS...and not screwing the pooch along the way is RARE.
EagleMan