Why buy a cue that is over $300?

Houstoer said:
I play with a limited edition predator and z2 shaft but if you're even thinking about why spend more than $300 you should be a cheaper cue and put the rest of the money into lessons. Played a guy the other night 9 ball. He used a POS house cue. Ran 12 racks on me. Let him play with with my cue; he ran another 11 later on. Up to a point its really about the indian and not the stick. Once you become a chief though you might want something a little more expensive ! :)
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I'm pretty sure you have it right. Lets say the high end stick adds 1% odds to your shots. If you've only got a 60% odds of sinking a ball anyhow because of your skill, then that's pretty inconsequential. If you've got 95% odds of sinking, 1% better is very significant. Granted those numbers are just made up, but I think you know what I mean. Its similar in other sports that are precision oriented, there isn't much value in having a higher precision instrument if you can't utilize the precision.
 
im single with a nice income coming in. i like playing pool even though im not good at it. i plan on spending somewhere between 500 and 750 on my next cue. i spent 250 on my very first one and had never really shot before. but ill tell you what the 250 i spent on that pechauer was a damn fine investment
 
Chopdoc said:
I never said you distorted anything. I would call more of a creative mischaracterization if I had to apply a term.
[...]
I like how Efren Reyes put it. He tried a shot with an LD shaft. He said something like "I aimed here and it went over there." He put it down and walked away.

That's all I'm saying on the matter. :)
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We can only hope! Juuuuuuuust kidding.
Which one seems more like "creative misrepresentation"?

Guy 1: presents one simple, EASILY TESTED fact about the difference between the shafts:
that it changes your line of aim, and you might find the LD shaft's line of aim makes more sense visually.

Guy 2: anecdote (that's probably made up) about how the world's greatest player supposedly hit a single ball with an LD shaft, put it down, and (presumably) never looked back.

To me, your post comes across as "Efren obviously thinks LD shafts are bullshit, and so should you". It doesn't present any actual facts about the differences between the shafts, only a story that's supposed to convince someone LD shafts suck because efren missed a ball with one.

If anything you're hurting your own case. I'm trying to argue that people should keep an open mind. Your story is a classic example of someone NOT having an open mind and dismissing LD shafts without giving them a fair shake.
 
I thought about this for a while and I couldn't come up with an explanation that was going to take less than 10 or 15 pages so I'll just say this: Buy the one that feels "right" in your hands. The one that fits best.
I'm not a custom cue guy, even if I order it made a certain way I can't guarantee it's performance. I need it in my hands. I know it sounds silly, but it has to speak to me. My player is incredibly plain, it doesn't have inlays or ivory, no super exotic Euro-Egyptian Coco Ebony wood from the hidden valley of Nihm, but it's a solid cue that quietly and humbly exudes quality from the joint out in every direction. It's mine, I think I originally paid about $500 for it brand new and everything about it fits me. I've tried many others from many different brands, customs, and price ranges and some I've liked and I've purchased and I'll play with them every so often. But regardless of the price, or the brand, for me I have never found it's equal. That's why.
 
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Ares49 said:
Can someone send me links to information or explain to me the benefit of spending a couple hundred dollars or even thousands on a cue stick?

I just recently bought a McDermott G204. It ran me $209

It is a well made American cue, G-Core shaft.

It should do me very nicely for being an intermediate player....

In fact this cue will be better than me for years to come.

But what I notice is that there are a lot of amateur pool players who are shelling out $300+ for these cue sticks that wont make them play any better...

Back in the day people were pocketing balls with straight sticks and maple shafts...

Now we have this predator LD nonsense.

Whats the point? Pool is a very simple game, with a simple wooden tool.

If anyone can give me some insight...I am just recently taking the game more seriously
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My question to you would then be..

Why'd you spend so much money on a cue?

$10 for the bar cue..
$40 for the cutting..

Here's my new cue. Plays like a dream, hits a ton, doubles as a jump cue and is even safe to break with! Best thing.. when I take it to the bar on the weekends, I don't worry somebody will steal it.

Still trying to decide if I want to sell my Joss(basic model) and Z2 shaft. Then I could pay for a couple more back-up cues and still have money left over.
 
9Cheeser said:
I play with a $3k+ ariel Carmeli cue.
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You mean you paid 3k+ for the Carmeli. Try selling it and see what you can get.

In any case, Carmeli is probably not the big cue name you're looking for to throw in someone's face. I shoot with a $300 sneaky pete, and I wouldn't trade it for any cue built by Carmeli: not a 3 thousand dollar Carmeli, not a 30 thousand dollar Carmeli. Ever.

-roger
 
buddha162 said:
You mean you paid 3k+ for the Carmeli. Try selling it and see what you can get.

In any case, Carmeli is probably not the big cue name you're looking for to throw in someone's face. I shoot with a $300 sneaky pete, and I wouldn't trade it for any cue built by Carmeli: not a 3 thousand dollar Carmeli, not a 30 thousand dollar Carmeli. Ever.

-roger
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Carmeli cues hit better than any other cue made. Apparently you've never seen one outside of pictures. Just because you can't afford quality doesn't mean you can yeah talk those of us that can. Enjoy your $300 sneaky and if you ever want a to quality custom then get in touch with Ariel.
 
I recently saw a Ted Harris cue. The lazer points and five layers of extra-thin veneers, were eloquent and perfectly crafted. The best I've ever seen. But that artistry was ruined, in my opinion, by the blinged out butt with eight oversized blocks of ivory.

Isn't there an international trade imbargo since 1990? Who would want twenty year old ivory?
 
As a cuemaker I can tell you that my cues hit different than production cues and that is why people like them and pay more. But the materials that cues are made out of costs different. Normal production cues dont have ivory (none that cost 300) where customs normally do. Ivory is not cheap these days by the way. :grin-square:
 
TheThaiger said:
People that think opinions are facts are idiots, Dr1.
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Here's a PM I received from the #1 Ariel Carmeli fan in the universe, 9cheeser:

9Cheeser said:
Ariel Carmeli cues - Yesterday, 09:58 PM
Apparently you've never hit with a Carmeli cue. They are the best hitting cues made. I would burn a Richard black or Scruggs before getting rid of it. Just because you can't afford a quality custom doesn't mean you should trash talk those of us that can. Enjoy your cheap $300 piece of wood and if you ever want the best cue money can buy then give Ariel a call.
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This tool will fit comfortably in the AZB shed. Pls don't PM me again.

-roger
 
Delaware Lar said:
Isn't there an international trade imbargo since 1990? Who would want twenty year old ivory?
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This is an oddly stated question which I think deserves an answer but the question is a bit out of sorts.

From discussions and posts by top cuemakers, a cuemaker worth his salt is not going to use green ivory. And ivory better be older than 20 years old or else it's green. Thomas Wayne says he doesn't use ivory unless it's documented to have been taken before he was born.

For legality, ivory importation has been banned since 1989. So, all cue made with ivory in the US should be using old ivory, certainly pre-ban anyway.

Freddie <~~~ would heed Thomas Wayne's recommendation
 
ares49

if you cannot tell the difference between a quality made custom cue and a cheaper production cue, then by no means should you spend any money on a cue.
 
buddha162 said:
Here's a PM I received from the #1 Ariel Carmeli fan in the universe, 9cheeser:



This tool will fit comfortably in the AZB shed. Pls don't PM me again.

-roger
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Roger,

I've posted this before. Think it needs to be repeated. Bought a Carmeli a couple of years ago after Southwest "lost" my cues and case. Thankfully there was just an incorrect baggage tag attached and they delivered the cues and case a day later with a three hundred dollar apology. The Carmeli stays in Vegas now. After playing with the cue for the last two BCAPL National events, I discovered the following. It hits exactly the same as the Schon Six Windows I purchased nearly twenty years ago and use daily in Rochester. Mentioned this fact to Ariel at SBE. Thought it was the ultimate compliment. The look on his face told a different story. Changed the tip, the ferrule material, the joint screw, joint material and joint design. Only things the same are the weight, balance point and length.

I look at fancy cues as works of art rather than the "quality" or "type" of hit. Whether the cue has ivory or ivorine, becote or rosewood, fiberglass or unobtainium, a quality player will adjust to the new cue in a very short period of time. Look at the number of times a "professional" player changes cue sponsors. The player doesn't suddenly get 20% better. Even 10%. They learn to adjust.

If the OP buys and plays well with the $300 cue, great! If they feel a $3000 cue will make them play better, great! Keeps an artisan working. As always, JMHO.

Lyn
 
desi2960 said:
if you cannot tell the difference between a quality made custom cue and a cheaper production cue, then by no means should you spend any money on a cue.
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This just might be my bottom line.....well said.
 
cardiac kid said:
Roger,

I've posted this before. Think it needs to be repeated. Bought a Carmeli a couple of years ago after Southwest "lost" my cues and case. Thankfully there was just an incorrect baggage tag attached and they delivered the cues and case a day later with a three hundred dollar apology. The Carmeli stays in Vegas now. After playing with the cue for the last two BCAPL National events, I discovered the following. It hits exactly the same as the Schon Six Windows I purchased nearly twenty years ago and use daily in Rochester. Mentioned this fact to Ariel at SBE. Thought it was the ultimate compliment. The look on his face told a different story. Changed the tip, the ferrule material, the joint screw, joint material and joint design. Only things the same are the weight, balance point and length.

I look at fancy cues as works of art rather than the "quality" or "type" of hit. Whether the cue has ivory or ivorine, becote or rosewood, fiberglass or unobtainium, a quality player will adjust to the new cue in a very short period of time. Look at the number of times a "professional" player changes cue sponsors. The player doesn't suddenly get 20% better. Even 10%. They learn to adjust.

If the OP buys and plays well with the $300 cue, great! If they feel a $3000 cue will make them play better, great! Keeps an artisan working. As always, JMHO.

Lyn
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Im a cue maker and agree with you. Although when a pro changes cues they tell the cuemaker what they want and how they want it to play. If Im not mistaken some even use their old shaft with the new butt. Just change the collar to match. I have done this many times. But the bottom line is if you can play you can adapt to most cues. I talked to a pro who didnt like the shaft that sponsered him but still played well with it because they adjust to it.
 
eddie0776 said:
Im a cue maker and agree with you. Although when a pro changes cues they tell the cuemaker what they want and how they want it to play. If Im not mistaken some even use their old shaft with the new butt. Just change the collar to match. I have done this many times. But the bottom line is if you can play you can adapt to most cues. I talked to a pro who didnt like the shaft that sponsered him but still played well with it because they adjust to it.
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Eddie,

Want you to know I have the utmost respect for you and the other cuemakers who create something from "nothing". Perhaps the thirty eight years in the retail / wholesale industry has jaded my view. In all those years I never "created" anything durable! I do feel strongly that too much is made of the technology of the game of pool instead of the basics of the game. Don't learn how to stroke the ball just change shaft materials, etc.

Lyn
 
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