"Center Ball" - Magic or Myth?

[CJ Wiley]

Did anyone know Bill? I think he was originally from Alaska, also lived in Miami

I think that that shot is easier(more consistent) using a hair low inside. But to each their own.

I agree, you can cut the ball "cleaner" with inside. Bill Amadeo showed me that first in Tampa Florida in 86.

Did anyone know Bill? I think he was originally from Alaska, also lived in Miami {I think}. Surfer Rod knew him - he had a pool room in Tampa.

Bill showed me the touch of inside for thin cut shots one day at that pool room, The Cue Club I think was the name of it - we gambled a lot playing Straight Rail Billiards there with the Korean players.

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Birth" of the 3Part Pocket System

My New TOI VIDEO is about to be released for everyone to see. For right now I offer you a special video clip about the "Birth" of the 3Part Pocket System and how it goes "hand in hand" with the TOUCH OF INSIDE Technique. I hope you enjoy this video clip and I look forward to revealing the Complete, 90 MinuteTOI VIDEO SOON. 'The Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley The Story of the 3Part Pocket System and How it Was Born in Tampa Florida - Click This Link >>> "The Birth of the 3Part Pocket System"

CLICK PICTURE

 

[naji]

Give me any shot you can think of that MUST be shot with outside english and I'll demonstrate the TOI choice I would recommend. Fair enough?
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How is this shot with TOI, if you slow role and come around you might scratch in corner, and inside will kill CB speed, IMO only outside will get CB bound of the long rail and spin upward behind the 9.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This one is a "natural" using TOI

How is this shot with TOI, if you slow role and come around you might scratch in corner, and inside will kill CB speed, IMO only outside will get CB bound of the long rail and spin upward behind the 9.

One of the exceptions I've listed (you just pivot over from TOI and apply "helping English), is when you must change the angle after going to a rail. This isn't necessary here though, it's a relatively easy TOI shot.

This is a very easy shot using the Touch Of Inside. You just draw the cue ball over to the rail, almost straight up (on the diagram) from where the cue ball is (near the side) and it will go naturally behind the 9 for position.

There's really no reason to demonstrate this one, you need to make it more challenging. This one is a "natural" using TOI.

CLICK this link to check out the NEW 3Part Pocket Video

 

[naji]

One of the exceptions I've listed (you just pivot over from TOI and apply "helping English), is when you must change the angle after going to a rail. This isn't necessary here though, it's a relatively easy TOI shot.

This is a very easy shot using the Touch Of Inside. You just draw the cue ball over to the rail, almost straight up (on the diagram) from where the cue ball is (near the side) and it will go naturally behind the 9 for position.

I do not want to risk loosing my AZB membership by posting in wrong thread. I will issue new thread later. Thanks.

 

[Bambu]

Bambu,

I started playing when I was 13. I started using english with in weeks. I seriously doubt that I have ever hit the actual center of the ball, high & low center, yes, exact center no.

That being said, I am & have always hit almost all shots off of the vertical axis. I learned very quickly @ 13 that I got unintended side spin when I tried to hit dead center high or even low. So... I started hittng with a little outside english & not long after that I started using inside english to change the CB path. It's just not as hard as so many want to make it out to be.

In a very short time I have gone from spinning almost all shots where my focus was on swerve & spin for 46 yrs. to now it is on squirt/deflection &no spin, but I am not trying to do what is nearly impossible, which is to hit exactly on the vertical axis with any high percentage of consistency.

I'm just pointing out my experience & perspective. As always it comes down to each his or her own way of doing what one wants to do.

Regards to You &

English,

I played with massive spin too, and from around the same age. Lots of players learned that way, but its backwards. If I could do it all over again, I'd stick to center for a much longer time before moving on. To me its no harder to hit center than it is to hit any other part of the ball. If you cant hit center, you may be denying yourself viable pathways. I think the reason so many people think its so hard to hit center, is because they dont do it. You play long enough using exclusive spin, you develop a cross stroke....a stroke that "wants to" deviate from center.

Best comparison I can think of, would be a pitcher with no fastball, a junkballer. He can still be great, but he'd be even better with another good pitch.

Best-

Bambu


(Not trying to hijack CJ's thread here, I look forward to trying his techniques.)

 

[Mikjary]

How is this shot with TOI, if you slow role and come around you might scratch in corner, and inside will kill CB speed, IMO only outside will get CB bound of the long rail and spin upward behind the 9.

This is a good example of when I would use a TOI. The cue ball comes straight back off of the long rail with draw for position. Very predictable and easy to control the speed.

Best,
Mike

 

[ENGLISH!]

English,

I played with massive spin too, and from around the same age. Lots of players learned that way, but its backwards. If I could do it all over again, I'd stick to center for a much longer time before moving on. To me its no harder to hit center than it is to hit any other part of the ball. If you cant hit center, you may be denying yourself viable pathways. I think the reason so many people think its so hard to hit center, is because they dont do it. You play long enough using exclusive spin, you develop a cross stroke....a stroke that "wants to" deviate from center.

Best comparison I can think of, would be a pitcher with no fastball, a junkballer. He can still be great, but he'd be even better with another good pitch.

Best-

Bambu

(Not trying to hijack CJ's thread here, I look forward to trying his techniques.)

Mr. Bambu,

I hear you & understand your baseball analogy as I was a middle school pitching coach. I did not say that I can't hit center CB, but I just choose not to do so unless the shot absolutely calls for it, which is very rare IMHO. For cue ball control with center hit, a slight under or over cut effects the angle it comes off of the OB & the rail. With spin one can all but guarantee from missing an angle on the wrong side, I wider margin of error, so to speak. I certainly have not developed a 'cross stroke' & do not understand your logic here as outside is on the right side one time & on the left side the next. I only use a swiping stroke when I choose to do so.

I'm not telling you anything you do not know but just a bit of info for those maybe that are still a bit fearful of using spin.

Your reasoning is why I like TOI. It gives me another 'no spin' option without requiring that I hit exact center, the failure of which puts unintended & unplanned for spin on the ball.

How one chooses to play is certainly up to each individual. However IMHO, one should be capable of playing at least well with any style of shooting. One needs as full a tool box as one can get. That being said, one can only use one tool at a time. Use my spin tool to get this hex nut off. Then use my straight center hit to drive the bolt out. Then use my TOI to pull the part from off of the engine. Each tool for the job at hand. Which of these any individual decides to be the most versitile & can be used effectively more often is up to each individual.

Getting back to your pitching analogy, I don't want a pitcher trying to throw a straight fast ball down the middle of the plate with a full count & be off by 1/2 a plate width. I want them throwing one that tails (moves) to their favorite side (preferably to the 'inside' part of the plate) & plan accordingly. If the ball does not move it's a strike. If it moves 1/2 a plate, it's a srtike. If It moves nearly a whole plate, it's still a strike.

As I eluded to earlier, all of this is not directed toward you but to anyone else still contemplating different approaches as to how they might decide to play the game.

Best Regards to You &

 

[CJ Wiley]

There's also a built in acceleration motivator because you MUST accelerate

I do not want to risk loosing my AZB membership by posting in wrong thread. I will issue new thread later. Thanks.

It seems to me, for some reason you don't think I can spin the cue ball when I need to. I assure you I can, it's just not as high a percentage shot as one that's not spinning. The Touch of Inside allows you to move the cue ball around easier and with more flexibility than using spin.

You do have to hit the cue ball slightly firmer to achieve this, and the speed it relatively consistent. There's also a built in acceleration motivator because you MUST accelerate on each shot or they undercut. As long as I accelerate I KNOW I'm going to make most shots.

When I'm playing my highest speed there's only two things I think about as far as technique - Touch Of Inside and accelerate. This makes the Game as simple as I can possibly make it. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

I wanted to play like I was "in the zone" all the time.

This is a good example of when I would use a TOI. The cue ball comes straight back off of the long rail with draw for position. Very predictable and easy to control the speed.

Best,
Mike

Yes, Mike, we used to say "he's got it on a string," when a player would hit dead stroke and start "floating" the cue ball with no spin.

The trick is to do this all the time, not just when in "dead stroke," is what I concluded. This was my incentive to figure this out, I wanted to play like I was "in the zone" all the time.

 

[CJ Wiley]

there will never be another question I'll have to answer again, my job here is done.

Hi,

Thanks for your kind words about my comment.

One element to increasing your chance of success is that you decrease the error associated with aiming at an imaginary point, the location of which is derived from two physical points (the pocket points). Object ball aim point error thus is decreased by aiming at the physical point.

This allows you to tolerate a greater error in other components of the shot, thereby increasing your "perceived margin of error" on the shot. Your actual physical margin of error on the shot has not changed, but by decreasing one source of error you have increased the tolerable error in the other sources of error.

Nick

We're sitting here watching the FINAL CUT of the TOI VIDEO. I'm proud of my staff regarding this video and feel confident this technique is explained and demonstrated as well as possible.

Will there be questions after you watch the Touch Of Inside Video and understand exactly how you apply it? No, there will never be another question I'll have to answer again, my job here on azbilliards is done.

I'm kidding, of course, however the questions will be much more advanced, specific, and I will be able to guide you very easily to the next level of your Game. The TOI Technique gives genuine advantage to those that apply it.

We will all end up producing our own unique version of this powerful technique, and it is beneficial to get some occasional guidance. I will be around the Main Forum to answer any question you may have to make sure you get it and the enjoyment of your Game increases like mine has. 'The Game is the Teacher' QUESTIONS? CLICK THIS LINK

 

[jackpot]

Smooth stroke no good

C.J.
All kidding aside,yesterday I practiced for a couple of hours using TOI,
When I hit them firm it worked just like you said. I would aim at the part
of the pocket closest to OB and split the pocket most of the time. The
other shot that it really helped was a long almost straight in with CB just
a few inches off the rail. I never missed one. Stopped them, drew them
and force followed, GREAT. Where I had a little problem was when I would
either kind of baby the shot or really smooth stroke it, if you know what
I mean. When you have always played with OS you tend to hit a lot of
shots this way. I was playing the 10 ball ghost on a tough worn cloth
Diamond. He got me stuck but I kept I kept playing him 1 game double
or nothing and finally got even. It's great the way you handle all of the
knockers that think this is a big money making deal for you. Anyway, is
this a common problem or just me.
jack

 

[CJ Wiley]

under pressure WE HIT IT HARDER, not easier, and that's intimidating

C.J.
All kidding aside,yesterday I practiced for a couple of hours using TOI,
When I hit them firm it worked just like you said. I would aim at the part
of the pocket closest to OB and split the pocket most of the time. The
other shot that it really helped was a long almost straight in with CB just
a few inches off the rail. I never missed one. Stopped them, drew them
and force followed, GREAT. Where I had a little problem was when I would
either kind of baby the shot or really smooth stroke it, if you know what
I mean. When you have always played with OS you tend to hit a lot of
shots this way. I was playing the 10 ball ghost on a tough worn cloth
Diamond. He got me stuck but I kept I kept playing him 1 game double
or nothing and finally got even. It's great the way you handle all of the
knockers that think this is a big money making deal for you. Anyway, is
this a common problem or just me.
jack

Yes, Jack, one of the fundamental things to remember is there's always 3 major calculations you have to make each shot and the "shot speed" is one of them. The speed of your cue has an effect on your spin and deflection, so it should be as consistent as possible.

I blend "cue speed/shot speed," shot angle, and where the cue ball target (which will be TOI) into one consistent routine instead of, like most players, 3 parts of a routine.

When you need to finesse or "slow roll" the cue ball try hitting it lower and "stunning" it to reduce the shot speed, instead of slowing your cue speed and risk Deceleration.

The main thing you MUST do with TOI is accelerate and the quicker your cue speed the more accurate you will become (within reason of course).

Especially under pressure "normal" players may get ahead of you in a set, and then try to "protect their lead," and start "babying the cue ball." When a player does that to a TOI Player they may be in trouble because under pressure WE HIT IT HARDER, not easier, and that's intimidating.

Deceleration is responsible for a LOT of lost matches.....TOI prevents this though the nature of the technique. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[jackpot]

MEZ match

C.J.
Isn't the shot to get on the six ( I believe ) in the last game with MEZ
what who mean. All the commentators were thinking you were going
to have trouble, but it looked like you you hit it firm and stunned it to
come up on the short side. I like this shot but you see it missed a lot.
jack

 

[CJ Wiley]

Yes, however, with the Touch of Inside it's a "piece of cake.

C.J.
Isn't the shot to get on the six ( I believe ) in the last game with MEZ
what who mean. All the commentators were thinking you were going
to have trouble, but it looked like you you hit it firm and stunned it to
come up on the short side. I like this shot but you see it missed a lot.
jack

Yes, however, with the Touch of Inside it's a "piece of cake." Just aim it straight in, cue it to the inside and "click". They go in like "magic".

CLICK PIC

 

[Mikjary]

That 6 ball shot is the gauge for your TOI stroke. If you can hit that shot with a firm, accelerating stroke, you can hold anything!

Best,
Mike

 

[jay helfert]

I just have to "agree to disagree" with those that recommend hitting "center ball". This is much more difficult than most players realize and even with a great stroke you're bound to hit it slightly off 1-5% of the time. This makes the cue ball deflect and leaves you confused on exactly why you miss certain shots.

I deflect every shot slightly,(unless dead staight in) so that I can play the shot to the nearest part of the pocket. This gives me a chance to play the pocket as a "Zone," and thus gives me more margin of error than a "center ball" hitter. All champion players throw balls in by cuing it off center whether their aware of it or not.

Even the greatest bank players throw/hold/stiff (whatever term you choose) their banks so they curve slighly into the hole. This also gives them a pocket "zone" and more margin for error, thus increasing their percentages (and confidence).

I was taught how to bank by Tony Fargo and paid him $700. for his "bank system". Needless to say it paid off many times over (I won over 7k the first week) because he showed me how he aligned and "threw" his banks in an effectively created a bigger "Pocket Zone".

This isn't just true in pool, but in golf, bowling, baseball, tennis, etc. Being able to "move" the ball though spin or deflection is the key that increases a players awareness of the "deeper" level of pocket billiards. 'The Game is the Teacher'

Some pretty good advice from a pretty good player here. Almost everyone "cheats" the cue ball a little to throw the object ball in. A little touch of right english when cutting the object ball to the left etc.

CJ is right about another thing, hitting true center ball is extremely difficult. Probably the best I ever saw at making center ball hits on the cue ball was Buddy. When he hit the cue ball it made a different sound, the hit was so pure. He went through the cue ball the best I ever saw, bar none.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I use a Touch of left to cut a ball to the left

Some pretty good advice from a pretty good player here. Almost everyone "cheats" the cue ball a little to throw the object ball in. A little touch of right english when cutting the object ball to the left etc.

CJ is right about another thing, hitting true center ball is extremely difficult. Probably the best I ever saw at making center ball hits on the cue ball was Buddy. When he hit the cue ball it made a different sound, the hit was so pure. He went through the cue ball the best I ever saw, bar none.

I have done some training under Buddy, and I'm not sure he would agree that he hits "center". We share a lot of the same opinions on this matter, although we accomplish it with different strokes.

And I use a Touch of left to cut a ball to the left (fyi). Glad to hear from you Jay, I take it I didn't make into the 10' Table Tournament? I can't get a room there anyway, so maybe next time.

 

[jay helfert]

I have done some training under Buddy, and I'm not sure he would agree that he hits "center". We share a lot of the same opinions on this matter, although we accomplish it with different strokes.

And I use a Touch of left to cut a ball to the left (fyi). Glad to hear from you Jay, I take it I didn't make into the 10' Table Tournament? I can't get a room there anyway, so maybe next time.

Sorry buddy, you're still an alternate. But high on the list if you do come.

 

[LAMas]

Some pretty good advice from a pretty good player here. Almost everyone "cheats" the cue ball a little to throw the object ball in. A little touch of right english when cutting the object ball to the left etc.

CJ is right about another thing, hitting true center ball is extremely difficult. Probably the best I ever saw at making center ball hits on the cue ball was Buddy. When he hit the cue ball it made a different sound, the hit was so pure. He went through the cue ball the best I ever saw, bar none.

Here's how to get a straight stroke...like Buddy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhiLhz4RH90