will 10 ft pool table catch on? is pool a little too easy on 9 ft table?
will we be seeing more and more 10 ft pool table?
- Thread starter BangkokMichael
- Start date
Most assuredly....
Yes in the major tournaments its looking like it will become the standard. as far as regular tournaments and your average pool hall, no.
Yes in the major tournaments its looking like it will become the standard. as far as regular tournaments and your average pool hall, no.
No way. It died in 1930. There might be one or two specialty events piggy backed to the dcc, but nothing more than that.
I think (hope) we're just seeing the beginning
I also used to believe that 10'fters were relegated to history, but now I'm not so sure. The top pros play at such an insanely good level that something needs to challenge these guys and gals. There are so many of them can run out for days that I think its a perfectly reasonable volution (albeit back to its roots) of the professional game. Similar to what 10 did to 9 ball at the top levels.
Plus Earl thinks we should.
I also used to believe that 10'fters were relegated to history, but now I'm not so sure. The top pros play at such an insanely good level that something needs to challenge these guys and gals. There are so many of them can run out for days that I think its a perfectly reasonable volution (albeit back to its roots) of the professional game. Similar to what 10 did to 9 ball at the top levels.
Plus Earl thinks we should.
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Depends on what you mean by 'catch on'. You might see it at a few tournaments. But you will never find them in most pool halls, and definitely not in bars etc.
Earl might like them but earl hates almost everything about modern pool... magic racks, jump cues, fast cloth, etc. Plus he's at least 30% nuts so I want to hear some other opinions from the pro crowd.
I bet even pros don't really want it. They have enough to worry about... they need to play perfect to beat other world-class players, they probably don't want to shoot worried all the time about the table, about stretching across it, about having to use the bridge all the time, etc.
Earl might like them but earl hates almost everything about modern pool... magic racks, jump cues, fast cloth, etc. Plus he's at least 30% nuts so I want to hear some other opinions from the pro crowd.
I bet even pros don't really want it. They have enough to worry about... they need to play perfect to beat other world-class players, they probably don't want to shoot worried all the time about the table, about stretching across it, about having to use the bridge all the time, etc.
I hope not.
Pool has clearly learned nothing from all the other "successful" sports.
Pool has clearly learned nothing from all the other "successful" sports.
I agree. Also, spacial constraints at tourneys will make 10 footers prohibitive.
I don't think that the table has much to do with the primary challenge at hand, which is battling an opponent. It is the opponent, not the playing surface, that defines the match. At least IMO.
I'm still trying to perfect the 8-ft. table :smile:
If I were a pro, I'd be against it. Every pro has (or has available) a 9-ft table for practice. What, they have to replace all those with 10-footers? It might be good for Diamond in the short run, but it will hurt in the long run.
If I were a pro, I'd be against it. Every pro has (or has available) a 9-ft table for practice. What, they have to replace all those with 10-footers? It might be good for Diamond in the short run, but it will hurt in the long run.
I love the idea, but then I learned to play on a 10' table.
I think they are just what the doctor ordered for the pros (whether they like the medicine or not), but I can't see them replacing 9 footers just based on cost and logistics alone. Maybe if they can get plenty of 1-piece slate, but seeing how long it takes to set up and level these big boys with 3-piece slates, how would you get a big venue set up and torn down within a reasonable time frame?
Unfortunately, I think they will remain a specialty item.
I think they are just what the doctor ordered for the pros (whether they like the medicine or not), but I can't see them replacing 9 footers just based on cost and logistics alone. Maybe if they can get plenty of 1-piece slate, but seeing how long it takes to set up and level these big boys with 3-piece slates, how would you get a big venue set up and torn down within a reasonable time frame?
Unfortunately, I think they will remain a specialty item.
I'm going to go against the tide here, and say, "yes, I believe 10-footers WILL catch on."
I don't think it will be a craze, but rather a "slow burn" process, where you'll start to see these "big berthas" more and more g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y. I think DCC is just the first warning shot across the bow. Diamond produced the first quantity of four (4) genuine 10-foot tables (not retrofitted/gaffed snooker tables) as an experiment, and that experiment WORKED. All four of those tables were snapped-up/sold.
Put it this way. You walk into a pool room, and the proprietor offers you a choice of a standard 9-footer, or the new "big bertha" 10-footer. Wouldn't your curiosity / zeal for our sport get you interested in what it'd be like to play on one of those beasts? I know I would -- in a heartbeat. And I'd try to make it part of my weekly practice regimen, too. For just like shot-making on a 7-footer is dopey-easy after practicing on 9-footers (for the moment, we're just talking about shot-making accuracy, not position play), so too the same for shot-making on the 9-footer after having practiced on the 10-footer.
Agree or no?
-Sean
I don't think it will be a craze, but rather a "slow burn" process, where you'll start to see these "big berthas" more and more g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y. I think DCC is just the first warning shot across the bow. Diamond produced the first quantity of four (4) genuine 10-foot tables (not retrofitted/gaffed snooker tables) as an experiment, and that experiment WORKED. All four of those tables were snapped-up/sold.
Put it this way. You walk into a pool room, and the proprietor offers you a choice of a standard 9-footer, or the new "big bertha" 10-footer. Wouldn't your curiosity / zeal for our sport get you interested in what it'd be like to play on one of those beasts? I know I would -- in a heartbeat. And I'd try to make it part of my weekly practice regimen, too. For just like shot-making on a 7-footer is dopey-easy after practicing on 9-footers (for the moment, we're just talking about shot-making accuracy, not position play), so too the same for shot-making on the 9-footer after having practiced on the 10-footer.
Agree or no?
-Sean
I appreciate your enthusiasm and I will agree that as a player, sure, I like to try different things. I know I was real happy to get to play on a 6 X 12 snooker table in while in London on vacation several years back.
I also observed Dechaine playing against Eric Durbin yesterday on one of the the 10' tables at the Derby yesterday. I guess I kinda agree with Durbin's assessment of the tables when he said "it's still pool, just with an extra foot".
In a perfect world, sure, I'd say room owners should offer several tables of varying sizes. It would be nice to include all sizes from 6' to 10' and you might as well throw in a 3 cushion table or two as well as snooker tables. But this is unrealistic for a room owner who wishes to remain profitable. As we know, the trend, if there is a clear one at all for pool, is toward smaller tables, not larger. 7' tables now dominate and I think this will remain the case for years to come. For pool rooms, with high rent and dwindling interest in the game, table space is at a premium more so now than ever before. Each table is a revenue generator and the more of them you can fit into a small space the better. 10' tables do not fit that bill. Moreover, for each aficionado like you or even I, there are multitudes of casual players who could care less about table size period.
In any event, the 10' tables are pretty cool and folks can make a compelling case that they have there place. But for an industry that lacks standardization across the board, making 10' tables standard is a super tall order to fill...
Disagree!~!
Sure, four people somewhere wanted a rare (but new & well-crafted) table. Probably people who always wanted some kind of table, and due to lucky timing had a chance at these.
But that's not the same as four pool room owners evicting one of their existing 9 footers for a more expensive 10 ft. All that cost and hassle, for something that will take years to pay for itself? No way. What do they get out of it besides bragging rights? If they try charging more for it, people will avoid it like the plague. If it costs the same as his 9 footers, people will still request those first... because there are more players who are turned off by extra difficulty than turned on.
The whole "9 foot tables makes 7 footers easy" mentality is the same flawed thinking (no offense) that people have about tight pockets. Just because you NEED more accuracy to shoot on a big table, does not mean you automatically GET more accuracy. You only GET more accuracy by practice and lessons. If you're not actively improving your stroke, then you can play for months on a 10 footer and you'll just miss the exact same long shots you currently do.
Conversely, when you switch to a smaller table, and miss less often, it's not because you trained on a 9 footer and now have Super Aim. It's because the geometry of the table guarantees all your shots will be shorter, and by definition easier.
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what he said! ^^^^
well let's see...
I'd have to say that I hope we start to see 10 foot tables more often and that I expect we may start seeing them more often.
Pool halls are lucky if they break even on their table time, they make their money from drink and food sales.
Adding alternate pool tables, whether they be snooker tables, 3 cushion tables, bar boxes or 9 footers, are all about getting people in to the pool hall and drinking and eating.
That's why most pool halls institute leagues. Leagues draw in the people that are more likely to drink more often and eat more often, IOW they are the money makers.
Getting a ten foot table in a room will be determined by whether or not they are being used in more tourneys. If they are, then installing them will bring in the players that will want to practice on them for upcoming tourneys. It may also bring in the people who want to gamble and have a bigger perceived advantage.
I like anything that helps to create a better distinction between players.
Tighter tables, bigger tables, hell, even bigger balls (j.k.) The difference between the higher level players is so minute...
Anything that can help to differentiate between top players and lesser players is good for the game IMO....
Jaden
I'd have to say that I hope we start to see 10 foot tables more often and that I expect we may start seeing them more often.
Pool halls are lucky if they break even on their table time, they make their money from drink and food sales.
Adding alternate pool tables, whether they be snooker tables, 3 cushion tables, bar boxes or 9 footers, are all about getting people in to the pool hall and drinking and eating.
That's why most pool halls institute leagues. Leagues draw in the people that are more likely to drink more often and eat more often, IOW they are the money makers.
Getting a ten foot table in a room will be determined by whether or not they are being used in more tourneys. If they are, then installing them will bring in the players that will want to practice on them for upcoming tourneys. It may also bring in the people who want to gamble and have a bigger perceived advantage.
I like anything that helps to create a better distinction between players.
Tighter tables, bigger tables, hell, even bigger balls (j.k.) The difference between the higher level players is so minute...
Anything that can help to differentiate between top players and lesser players is good for the game IMO....
Jaden
I don't know about California, but in KY, leagues are played on 7' tables, period. And I do agree that the league players are the ones who generate the bulk of the revenue.
Why then would a room owner wish to restrict the activities of these league players? Unless they are mad at money, they will ADD, not subtract 7' tables. A 10 footer is just a waste of space in this schematic.
As to differentiating top players, well, I'd say that the following $ winnings list is pretty differentiated, no (in fact, if you're not named Shane or Dennis, you are pretty differentiated ha ha ha ha)?
2012 Player Money List
Player Name
2012 Prize Money
Shane Van Boening
$147,923
Darren Appleton
$114,904
Dennis Orcollo
$102,650
Kelly Fisher
$80,475
Karl Boyes
$57,226
Jung-Lin Chang
$56,600
Mika Immonen
$55,975
Alex Pagulayan
$53,250
Ga-Young Kim
$52,750
Karol Skowerski
$41,471
Justin Hall
$37,807
Ralf Souquet
$36,733
Nick Van Den Berg
$36,713
Francisco Bustamante
$35,025
Chieh-Yu Chou
$34,198
Xiao-Fang Fu
$33,500
John Morra
$32,897
Petri Makkonen
$32,791
He Wen Li
$31,500
Che-Wei Fu
$28,850
Mike Dechaine
$27,900
Si Meng Chen
$27,500
Jasmin Ouschan
$27,470
Johnny Archer
$27,460
Chris Melling
$26,632
Efren Reyes
$25,825
Allison Fisher
$24,000
Ching-Shun Yang
$23,300
Thorsten Hohmann
$22,244
Brandon Shuff
$21,816
Pool is already a logistical nightmare for business owners. You need lots of tables and tables take up lots of room. More room = higher rent. Those tables can only be used for pool and nothing else.
9 ft tables already need a large amount of space and putting in 10 ft tables would just make an expensive piece of equipment that much more expensive.
Places that just have live music and a bar with half the actual room a pool hall does probably brings in 2-3 times as much revenue as the pool room and doesn't have the added rent for all the extra space.
As far as playing goes, the 10 ft tables just increase the amount of stretching and bridge use. Both of these are the lesser fun things about pool. Pocketing and speed pretty much doesn't change as the angles are the same and speed can be adjusted quickly.
IMO 10ft tables are just a "gimmick" to make things sound more complicated, when actually, they are just more cumbersome.
9 ft tables already need a large amount of space and putting in 10 ft tables would just make an expensive piece of equipment that much more expensive.
Places that just have live music and a bar with half the actual room a pool hall does probably brings in 2-3 times as much revenue as the pool room and doesn't have the added rent for all the extra space.
As far as playing goes, the 10 ft tables just increase the amount of stretching and bridge use. Both of these are the lesser fun things about pool. Pocketing and speed pretty much doesn't change as the angles are the same and speed can be adjusted quickly.
IMO 10ft tables are just a "gimmick" to make things sound more complicated, when actually, they are just more cumbersome.
I hope not... i dont mind a tourney here or there with it, I just dont want it to become the norm.
Serious pool players/gamblers are notoriously cheap. They aren't going to come in to practice for a tournament or gamble and drink alcohol(for the most part) and they aren't going to spend much on food.
Real pool players make up an extremely small portion of a pool hall's revenue and very few pool halls would install a 10 ft table just to attract the tiny handful of players who would use the table.
CreeDo:
Our opinions differ on the idea of 10-footers "catching on," but it might be cause we're talking about two different things -- i.e. I'm saying that we might be seeing more of the 10-footers due to that ice already being broken, and we perhaps might see more and more of the top-level tournaments taking place on them. I do already know about your points of "table real estate," and many of your points I agree with.
However, I wanted to reply to the above, because I think there were assumptions made on my part that I thought you'd catch onto:
1. Unless one is truly of the type that just throws balls up on the table and "enjoys the sensation of" banging balls around aimlessly without care for what practice is for, one *is* going to be focusing on accuracy, position play, improving stroke, etc. and strengthening those abilities.
2. The whole "need more accuracy, get more accuracy merely through osmosis" point you made above was in no way inferred in my post. I don't know where you got that. Like I said in postulate 1, part of one's purpose for practice is to work on those things -- unless one just likes the sensation of banging balls around aimlessly. If one *works* on the accuracy and hunkers down, the accuracy will be worked on and improved (other obstacles put aside for the moment). I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm at the table, I'm working on something -- either stroke, or a particular precision draw shot, or cut shots, or safeties, ...etc. I always have focused practice in there, in amongst just enjoying some 14.1, etc.
3. I disagree with the notion that, once accuracy has been worked on the 9-footer, that it's a non-starter on the 7-foot table, because the 7-footer is easier "by design" and the 9-footer work had nothing to do with it. I disagree, because human nature is to RELAX those skills where they are not needed. If one is to merely play on 7-footers exclusively, there is a tendency to "relax" into those table dimensions, adopting only as much accuracy as is needed to play in that situation, and not so much finding the equipment "easy" as more to find it "normal." Just as it is with snooker players finding American pool equipment "easy" because of their higher levels of "honed" accuracy, so too a pool player practiced on 9-footers finds barboxes easier. Higher-honed skills *do* translate into better accuracy on smaller equipment -- their skills are "relaxed to"/"relaxed at" a higher level. Again, though, that's accuracy translated into shot-making, not position play, which is an entirely different animal (and, is the "gotcha" with going from larger equipment to smaller equipment -- so it probably balances out).
I just wanted to clarify what I'd assumed, since it looks like it'd been missed (probably my fault).
Anyway, this is a good thread -- a good mix of opinions and points from both sides of the fence.
-Sean