Table roll: How much is ok?

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just had my table redone and I noticed a small roll by one pocket. You can see the video of the roll here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O1nNT3T6LM. (That's my first youtube video, hello 2004! Sorry for the shaky first 5 seconds).

As you can see, when a ball is hit at pocket speed straight into the pocket, it curves off to the right a little bit. You can see it hitch slightly to the right about 10" from the pocket.

Questions: Would you care about a small roll like this? Is a small roll like this simply unavoidable and present on all tables, and I only noticed this one because it's on my own table? Or is this something that would concern you? (Assume for purposes of these questions that your favorite game is one pocket.)

Thanks!
Cory
 

desertshark

Racks on racks on racks
Silver Member
If you just paid to have it redone and it doesn't please you, have them come back out and fix it. If you roll one into the pocket slowly to make shape and this little roll causes you to miss, you're not gonna be happy.

Just my $0.02...
 

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
If I had to guess, I would say that the cloth isn't pulled correctly, near that pocket.

That said, it's really a tough call. It's not so horrendous that you can't live with it. Personally, I would want to have it fixed, especially if you play pocket speed games i.e. one pocket, where a bunch of shots tend to be shot at pocket speed.


Eric
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I had to guess, I would say that the cloth isn't pulled correctly, near that pocket.

That said, it's really a tough call. It's not so horrendous that you can't live with it. Personally, I would want to have it fixed, especially if you play pocket speed games i.e. one pocket, where a bunch of shots tend to be shot at pocket speed.


Eric

Oh, him do like hees 1p.

I would want it fixed too. Sorry to hear it, Corey.

Remember: pool sucks...no, wait, I didn't mean to say that. What I meant was to remind you that onece you get these new-table issues 'straightened out', that sweet table will provide a looong time of happy play.

In it for the long haul...and I feel your pain!
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I just had my table redone and I noticed a small roll by one pocket. You can see the video of the roll here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O1nNT3T6LM. (That's my first youtube video, hello 2004! Sorry for the shaky first 5 seconds).

As you can see, when a ball is hit at pocket speed straight into the pocket, it curves off to the right a little bit. You can see it hitch slightly to the right about 10" from the pocket.

Questions: Would you care about a small roll like this? Is a small roll like this simply unavoidable and present on all tables, and I only noticed this one because it's on my own table? Or is this something that would concern you? (Assume for purposes of these questions that your favorite game is one pocket.)

Thanks!
Cory

Notice how the ball at the end of the roll turns and rolls straight? That's grain tracking in the cloth, the ball at the end of the roll is rolling into the straight grain, whereas on the way there its rolling across the grain at an angle. It takes some time to flatten out the grain rolling, kind of like corn rows, it'll stop when the surface of the cloth has all blended in to one flat playing field. I know, I'm the one that releveled your slate and installed the new cloth;)
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
I'd want it fixed. I'd like to think a good mechanic will do a quick test similar to yours, into all four corners.

I dunno if I've ever seen a good mechanic "live" but I'd like to imagine that's something they'd do before leaving and taking your money.

Remember that even if you choose to shoot firmly, there is a ball on every single table that eventually rolls slowly and then stops - the cue ball. Imagine you're playing a set and the other guy sends the CB right into that pocket, but table roll saves him. Or you're going to hit the rail but then roll sucks it into the pocket.

edit: sounds like the cloth just needs to get broken in a bit. I don't think glen would leave the slate tilted, from what I've heard of him.
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I just had my table redone and I noticed a small roll by one pocket. You can see the video of the roll here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O1nNT3T6LM. (That's my first youtube video, hello 2004! Sorry for the shaky first 5 seconds).

As you can see, when a ball is hit at pocket speed straight into the pocket, it curves off to the right a little bit. You can see it hitch slightly to the right about 10" from the pocket.

Questions: Would you care about a small roll like this? Is a small roll like this simply unavoidable and present on all tables, and I only noticed this one because it's on my own table? Or is this something that would concern you? (Assume for purposes of these questions that your favorite game is one pocket.)

Thanks!
Cory

When the slate is out of level, the balls roll off in a long curve depending on how unlevel the slate is, but either way its a curve. It's not a slate issue when the ball rolls straight for a distance, then turns at near the end of it's roll and continues straight untill it stops for the last few inches. All cloth has some grain tracking to it when its new, bar none.

Glen
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
I don't care how level you get it, there will always be someone who blames a miss on the table. "Damn, look how that ball rolled away from that pocket." We have a couple of them where I play. :smile:
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I know, I'm the one that releveled your slate and installed the new cloth;)

When the slate is out of level, the balls roll off in a long curve depending on how unlevel the slate is, but either way its a curve. It's not a slate issue when the ball rolls straight for a distance, then turns at near the end of it's roll and continues straight untill it stops for the last few inches. All cloth has some grain tracking to it when its new, bar none.

Glen

Thanks for the info/facts. This is good to know for anyone getting their table serviced.
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When the slate is out of level, the balls roll off in a long curve depending on how unlevel the slate is, but either way its a curve. It's not a slate issue when the ball rolls straight for a distance, then turns at near the end of it's roll and continues straight untill it stops for the last few inches. All cloth has some grain tracking to it when its new, bar none.

Glen

Ah, that makes perfect sense since gravity is the causative factor. Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, about how much higher or lower does one pocket need to be before a perceptible roll would be present at the speed in the video (assuming well flattened cloth with no grain left)? Or maybe you think in terms of degrees and minutes out of level?
 

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To be clear, Glenn checked the table 6 ways to Sunday using an intricate system of cards and about 8 mechanics levels. I also slow rolled a number of shots before he left to further check, and more after he left. As far as I could tell -- and I did check -- there were no rolls when he left.

Then, 10 days later, I shoot a bank with perfect pocket speed and it rolls off in the way that I showed in the video.

It's good to hear that the issue is the new cloth. I'll just practice my 8-ball break for a while, which will cause a lot of traffic over the problematic area.

Would brushing or going over the area with the X1 help?

Thanks everyone for the input!
Cory

P.S. Black-Balled -- if the roll doesn't go away, that will be your designated pocket next time we play.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
freddy the beard in his book on banking talked about the nap od the cloth and how depending on the direction of the object ball head to foot or foot to head it will "bend "in different directions
this from memory i have not gone to the book to verify
but i remember that the roll you are describing has to do with the nap og the cloth
king cobra called it "grain"
i assume they are talking about the same thing
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Ah, that makes perfect sense since gravity is the causative factor. Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, about how much higher or lower does one pocket need to be before a perceptible roll would be present at the speed in the video (assuming well flattened cloth with no grain left)? Or maybe you think in terms of degrees and minutes out of level?

That depends on how long of a shot is made, meaning the longer the ball is rolling, the greater the chance of a slate if it's off level just a little changing the path of the ball. But that same amout of out of level slate has little effect on shorter distance shots.

Glen
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
To be clear, Glenn checked the table 6 ways to Sunday using an intricate system of cards and about 8 mechanics levels. I also slow rolled a number of shots before he left to further check, and more after he left. As far as I could tell -- and I did check -- there were no rolls when he left.

Then, 10 days later, I shoot a bank with perfect pocket speed and it rolls off in the way that I showed in the video.

It's good to hear that the issue is the new cloth. I'll just practice my 8-ball break for a while, which will cause a lot of traffic over the problematic area.

Would brushing or going over the area with the X1 help?

Thanks everyone for the input!
Cory

P.S. Black-Balled -- if the roll doesn't go away, that will be your designated pocket next time we play.

Yes, brushing or using the X1 will speed up the blending of the grain of the cloth, but it's not an over night change.
 

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
freddy the beard in his book on banking talked about the nap od the cloth and how depending on the direction of the object ball head to foot or foot to head it will "bend "in different directions
this from memory i have not gone to the book to verify
but i remember that the roll you are describing has to do with the nap og the cloth
king cobra called it "grain"
i assume they are talking about the same thing

yes and no.

old cloth had a fuzzy texture, so you had a nap. Think about carpet, as an example.

Newer worsted cloth is more like the woven texture of blue jeans. There is no nap, but the woven pattern or grain is what the ball touches.


Eric
 
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