cue? investment?

Gotta throw out one more Will Roger's aphorism:

“Don’t gamble, buy some good stock. Hold it till it goes up…and then sell it.
If it doesn’t go up, don’t buy it!”
 
some of the most renowned (and expensive) pieces of art on the planet are made of nothing more than a few ounces of paint schlepped onto a piece of canvas, sometimes decades if not centuries ago.

so, art doesnt have inherent value simply because of what its made of. you also cant eat art, or use it for shelter, or drive it to work, yet there are still people out there, that will and do, pay more for it than they would for groceries, a car, and their house, combined.


'perceived value' is a very powerful thing.


that said, the collector markets are very similar to the service and entertainment markets, in that they are the first to suffer and the last to recover during economic struggles.
 
I see more players making an investment in their game these days compared to investing in futures. That's my reasoning, more are wanting a player than a show piece, and cue makers, high enders, and big dealers are making their prices comparable to mid range shooters... better to have your cues moving to the public than collecting dust.
 
Mr. Bond said:
some of the most renowned (and expensive) pieces of art on the planet are made of nothing more than a few ounces of paint schlepped onto a piece of canvas, sometimes decades if not centuries ago.

so, art doesnt have inherent value simply because of what its made of. you also cant eat art, or use it for shelter, or drive it to work, yet there are still people out there, that will and do, pay more for it than they would for groceries, a car, and their house, combined.


'perceived value' is a very powerful thing.


that said, the collector markets are very similar to the service and entertainment markets, in that they are the first to suffer and the last to recover during economic struggles.
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To many, myself included, art represents something much more than monetary value, or the lack thereof. It represents the absolute pinnacle of human achievement. It is all of human kind's beau ideal.

And it could be almost anything. It could be borne out of paint, molded out of precious metal, or expressed eloquently via a four rail kick shot.

Happy shooting and collecting to all...
 
The newer generation of pool players, as few as may be, are not the custom cue buyers that the sport had seen through the 60's to the 90's. Players today do not necessarily relate to the "playability" of a custom cue. They like the little adjustment of an L/D style cue, over the pride of ownership of a high end custom.

Factor in that there are less players and more cuemakers than ever before. Also the economy, makes dsposable income less. Many factors contribute to the price fluctuations of the market.

JV
 
Let’s first separate the collectable side from an investment side of the argument as they are two completely different things.

To the point about some investments paying you to own them, if a stock pays a dividend it comes out of the future growth of the underlying stock price. In this case you can compare gold more so to cues as gold does not pay a dividend or interest.

There is one major difference between the gold market (or any other hard asset market) and that there is a market. There is a weak and inefficient market for cues. There is no constant pricing mechanism and there certainly is a lot of liquidity risk. This is evidenced by the continuous price reductions on W/FS section. It is actually a combination of lack of liquidity and pricing error.

Secondly, Fatboy was right on. The supply increases ever year and the demand slows. The demand curve is shifting for cues and not for the better. Because of the narrow market people buy and sell in a narrow market (narrow relative to any tradable security) and any seasonality (if any) and economic cycles that may or may not effect cue prices makes it difficult to track this shift. However the shift is there. New cues enter the market and few leave the market (IE destroyed). Secondly, there is probably a trend of net buyers decreasing.

I am a money manager and I would never recommend cues as an investment. There is no value for a cue other than what one person is willing to pay on a particular day who “subjectively” valued your cue. Fine Wine for example, does have an index and a highly active auction market. You can put a portfolio of wine together and have it managed, institutional buyers have access to crop reports, wine critic notes etc and can purchase wine on wholesale and sell at auction prices. Money can be made and you can have an ROI.

You can buy a cue from a high demand (first growth or grand cru) top cue maker and flip it on day one (new) for a profit. You cannot however create a market for it or sustainable business (based on the growth of cue prices). If that was the case, our friendly cue dealers would be rolling it. Bill can I manage 5mil for you?
 
prewarhero said:
Let’s first separate the collectable side from an investment side of the argument as they are two completely different things.

To the point about some investments paying you to own them, if a stock pays a dividend it comes out of the future growth of the underlying stock price. In this case you can compare gold more so to cues as gold does not pay a dividend or interest.
Click to expand...

Only a minor quibble, but companies actually pay dividends out of their retained earnings, unless it is a special dividend which could be a return of capital. It is also not uncommon and actually expected for a stock price to drop immediately after the dividend has been paid in order to commensurately compensate buyers for the decreased corporate cash position - this is known as going ex-dividend. :)
 
smokey said:
maybe i am wrong, but for me i think now is a great time to be a buyer

prices are tight while so many of us want to have a chance with new cues, and great cues can be bought at lower prices [right?]

actually, i may sell a few to fund some that i think will be better investments

just my opinion

hope you are well, all the best,
smokey
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i hope your right and i'm wrong ,

i will give you a call next time im in town, like to see you

my very best

eric:)
 
i think its all basic economics right now.....when there is less money floating around the market for goods dries up or slows. Look at classic cars, a few years ago you would see them going for premiums. I was watching barrets the other night, a prime 68 shelby gt500 went for 98k, i remember seeing the same car going for over 200k just a few years ago. If/when another boom time hits, you will see the prices for collectible cues go up just like anything else.
 
I pick up cues here and there, keep what I like and sell the rest. I have my personal limits on what I think cues are worth. I don't make a living off of them, but I think the last dozen or so cues I've sold I've made at least a 50% profit, generally 100-300% profit. The down side is I've never spent more than $800 on a cue and that was 5 or so years ago. Beside a 70's Joss that I doubled my money in a week or two, I've not spent more than $200 on a cue. So percentage wise, I do great. Actually monetary gain, not to much. Still looking for my Balabushka at a yard sale.
 
I was in the investment business for years before retiring and getting into cues

as far as investments,it was a common thing to see pessimism at the bottom of every market and unbridled optimism at the top

Right now I am hearing more pessimism,this alone inspires me to expect better days for investments of all kinds,particularly cues

Over the years I sold all of my Szamboti cues,and now I am looking to hold and buy

However if anyone wishes to bail,
please call me I am buying cues
 
jalapus logan said:
Only a minor quibble, but companies actually pay dividends out of their retained earnings, unless it is a special dividend which could be a return of capital. It is also not uncommon and actually expected for a stock price to drop immediately after the dividend has been paid in order to commensurately compensate buyers for the decreased corporate cash position - this is known as going ex-dividend. :)
Click to expand...

Minor quibble but wrong. The Ex-Dividend date has zero to do with the growth of a stock, which was my point. The temporary drop you mentioned from the ex-div is because the stock is then being traded sans a dividend (hence Ex-div = no div) The person on the record date gets the dividend so they can only sell the stock for its value minus the dividend the buyer is not getting.

Moreso, Discount Dividend Model (which I was eluding too) states that value of a company is related to the growth rate (expected ror) and the dividends the company pays. For example, let’s say a there are only two companies in the world. One company is a value company and the second is in a growth stage. Let’s assume they stocks trade at $50 each and let’s assume they will both experience 10% net growth. The growth company will not pay a dividend because they will reinvest that cash to grow more. The other company will dispense a large portion of it to its shareholders. If the value company sends out a 5% dividend than the share holder can expect the stock price to grow by 5% (10-5=5). The growth company should experience a 10% increase in share price.

My point was that if a stock pays you to own it is only because it came with a reduction in capital appreciation. This is important to someone if they are looking for income. You can own a great stock portfolio and experience ZERO yield as well and still do just fine.

Cues are the same way. They do not provide yield. Unless people rent them out. Hey there is not a bad idea. MINE
 
Paying "Big Bucks" for anything has never been a wise investment strategy as far as I recall.

Ideally you get in on the ground floor OR cash in a rare one time situation for (comparatively) minimal investment versus current market value.

Last I checked , none of that has changed. What HAS changed is many more idiots buying the wrong stuff and paying too much thinking they backed into some topsecret line that the rest of world managed to miss out on. ;)

Yea, not so much. :)
 
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