Rodeny Morris Beats the 13 ball Ghost usng CTE

[mohrt]

I agree CTE has a steep learning curve. I believe that is because very little existing techniques adapt to it.

If you take someone brand new at pool they would probably tackle aiming and stroke at the same time. At a later point you could show them some banking techniques and they can apply their aiming and stoke automatically.

CTE is a different beast. You can apply your stroke, but traditional aiming techniques are not built upon, but instead dismantled and relearned. This is the difficult part, but probably no more difficult than when you first learned to aim.

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

The one thing other than adopting solid fundamentals that really ratcheted up my game, was learning how to embed all the repetitive tasks -- including aiming -- to the point where I don't think about them.

Was that a conscious effort or did it just happen over time?

 

[JE54]

Gerry Williams, nice run. If you post another youtube, as your aiming can you say a, b,c or 1/8 and Left or right. It might help some people see what your doing.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Dave:

For a player of your caliber, yes. You know where time is best spent, and have spent it on ingraining your aiming system. But I disagree on the notion that "it's easier with Pro/1 to ingrain it precisely 'because' it's a visual system." All shot-making in pool, regardless of the aiming system used, has to be ingrained to the point where you've built up a "catalog" of shots that you just align yourself to, get down on, and fire.

From the talk I see on these threads -- other than the instructional threads, of course -- it's like everyone's thinking about all the steps on every shot. And to THEM, I offer the challenge of trying that while running 50 or more balls in straight pool. Heck, dispense with the 50 -- with the way everyone talks on here, it's like misses once an hour are the norm -- let's see a 70/80 ball run (I won't be unfair and throw triple digits out there, because that can't be expected from folks who don't normally play 14.1 -- and even experienced 14.1 players don't run those kind of numbers regularly either). This will prove the endurance and longevity aspect, and drive home the point of aiming needing to be a subconscious activity.

I'm not trying to be unfair, but rather trying to demonstrate a point -- by offering self-demonstration.

-Sean

Is the reason I only have a high run of 36 because I think about my aim? Or could it be because I don't yet fully understand the game and which shots/patterns to take?

I think it's the latter. The only thinking I do is when I find my visuals, after that it's all subconscious.

I believe that if you and I were to get together, and you told me what shot to shoot on every shot, that I could think about the aim and run quite a few. Sure, it would take awhile, but I think it could be done.

 

[sfleinen]

Was that a conscious effort or did it just happen over time?

Is that a trick question?

All funnin' aside, it's very easy to get caught in the "semantics" of aiming when setting yourself up on the shot. And when you involve the conscious mind like this, you also bring all its baggage in with it -- including doubt. This, for me, would "get me" in pressure situations or when I'm under duress.

I had to make a "conscious" effort to address this, by making incremental steps to trust myself. That when I got down on the shot, to trust my ingrained PSR to 'bring me there." Most of what I had to do was redirection of my conscious mind -- i.e. instead of getting wrapped up in the semantics of aiming, to instead envision the object ball going down the shot line to the pocket, and also where the cue ball was going to go. Later, I dispensed with the envisioning the object ball disappearing part, and just focused on the cue ball's travel.

Yes, time does help with this process, as long as steps are taken to prevent that "busy-body backseat driver" (i.e. the conscious mind) from short-circuiting the shot-making process.

-Sean

 

[sfleinen]

Is the reason I only have a high run of 36 because I think about my aim? Or could it be because I don't yet fully understand the game and which shots/patterns to take?

I would ask you, how do your runs usually end? Do they typically end with a miss? Or because of a botched pattern where you fubar'ed your position on your keyball and breakball? Or because of lady luck -- i.e. you made your breakshot, but you had no shot afterwards?

This actually touches upon a root principle I've been trying to convey -- that straight pool "ain't" all about shot-making "because you can shoot at any ball you want." Those that think this way, I CHALLENGE to do a run of 28 -- just two racks. In fact, Shaun Wilkie offers the same challenge:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3-9YVwUv-_k#t=25m15s

The point is, you're one of the ones to get it -- it's ain't about shot-making, nor is it one of those things where "if you miss, it's because you didn't execute your aiming system correctly."

I think it's the latter. The only thinking I do is when I find my visuals, after that it's all subconscious.

That's the way it should be.

I believe that if you and I were to get together, and you told me what shot to shoot on every shot, that I could think about the aim and run quite a few. Sure, it would take awhile, but I think it could be done.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The "thinking" part during aiming is going to GET YOU. Again, you're making the assumption that straight pool is all about picking the proper shot and nothing else -- that you can expend your conscious thought on aiming and "it's a done deal, the ball is gone." I would offer you'll wear yourself out after 40 or more balls in having to think about the pattern *and* aiming. You don't think about throwing a baseball, and it's the same with a pool shot. At some point, you have to relegate that repeatable stuff to your subconscious if you're going to make it through a multi-inning baseball (pool) game.

-Sean

 

[Gerry Williams]

Sure - I just picked up a new HD camera. Just had a 40 but the wall got me. Moving soon and new basement has no wall issues - that will be a big improvement. My goal is to run 100 this year…just started playing 14.1.

As for the aiming - I will play a race to 7 against the 9 ball ghost and call out the visuals as I see them and shoot them. I just spent a day with Stan and I am very comfortable with Pro One having worked on it since November.

Should be posted this evening. Hope it helps.

Gerry

Here is the 40 run…

http://youtu.be/d5HaOfEeSHs

Here is 5 racks of 9 ball ghost (Won 3-2)…Actually won 5-2 but the SD card was full and I never realized

http://youtu.be/407YAtWRVH0

Gerry Williams, nice run. If you post another youtube, as your aiming can you say a, b,c or 1/8 and Left or right. It might help some people see what your doing.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I would ask you, how do your runs usually end? Do they typically end with a miss? Or because of a botched pattern where you fubar'ed your position on your keyball and breakball? Or because of lady luck -- i.e. you made your breakshot, but you had no shot afterwards?

This actually touches upon a root principle I've been trying to convey -- that straight pool "ain't" all about shot-making "because you can shoot at any ball you want." Those that think this way, I CHALLENGE to do a run of 28 -- just two racks. In fact, Shaun Wilkie offers the same challenge:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3-9YVwUv-_k#t=25m15s

The point is, you're one of the ones to get it -- it's ain't about shot-making, nor is it one of those things where "if you miss, it's because you didn't execute your aiming system correctly."



That's the way it should be.



I'm not sure I agree with this. The "thinking" part during aiming is going to GET YOU. Again, you're making the assumption that straight pool is all about picking the proper shot and nothing else -- that you can expend your conscious thought on aiming and "it's a done deal, the ball is gone." I would offer you'll wear yourself out after 40 or more balls in having to think about the pattern *and* aiming. You don't think about throwing a baseball, and it's the same with a pool shot. At some point, you have to relegate that repeatable stuff to your subconscious if you're going to make it through a multi-inning baseball (pool) game.

-Sean

Sean

I played a little today. Just couldn't get past the first rack. My runs usually ended with a miss because I got bad position and left myself with a tough shot. I tried racks with thinking about the aim, and with not. I honestly didn't see much of a difference. However, that's likely because I never got a big run going.

Where I did see a difference with not thinking was my 9 ball play. I played 25 racks. Got out 5 times, and failed to get to the 4 ball only twice.

I also practiced some frozen to the rail shots without any aim consideration, and was firing this one below at will.

 

[JB Cases]

Was that a conscious effort or did it just happen over time?

Welcome back.

 

[JB Cases]

Not my job to, John. The onus is on the poster to get his/her own location on the web correct. Not for the readership to "divine what the poster meant, and, oh, here, I searched for and found your location on the web, so let me fix that URL for you."

-Sean <-- learned a long time ago about time management, where time is best spent, and who's the appropriate owner of the task

Jeeze LIGHTEN UP. You know SOMETIMES people make mistakes in linking. When you see it you have two choices, help by providing the right link or inform the that their link is wrong. Both take about the same amount of time.

It took me all of 30 seconds to click the link to Vimeo and type in 92 ball run in the search field.

 

[JB Cases]

How has this discussion gone from Rodney mentioning that he is using CTE and loving the results to shooting unconsciously with 14.1 being touted as the test? The test is making shots. No matter what level of player you are now if you learn a new method and you increase your shot making then the method passed the test.

You need three things to increase your shotmaking. Accurate aiming, accurate shooting, good position play. Fix any or all of those thing and you make percentage increases.

There is no magic number which says that guy is a good player. Numbers are good for measuring progress and for testing variables. However they aren't good for saying that x method is only good if you can run 50 balls with it.

 

[sfleinen]

Sean

I played a little today. Just couldn't get past the first rack. My runs usually ended with a miss because I got bad position and left myself with a tough shot. I tried racks with thinking about the aim, and with not. I honestly didn't see much of a difference. However, that's likely because I never got a big run going.

Where I did see a difference with not thinking was my 9 ball play. I played 25 racks. Got out 5 times, and failed to get to the 4 ball only twice.

I also practiced some frozen to the rail shots without any aim consideration, and was firing this one below at will.

[...image duplication deletia for space-saving reasons...]

Thanks for relaying those results. Obviously categorizing "results" this early is premature, but if you had to, would you say overall that you played better, equal, or worse than your normal "aim-think every shot" style of play? I would agree that it could be that a bigger run would've helped lay the foundation for a better comparison between the two "techniques."

That shot you show is one of my favorites to warm-up with, btw! It's also a pet shot in 1p, where you have BIH behind the headstring, and, with a cluster of balls right behind (closer to the foot rail than) that 8-ball, you hit this shot SOFTLY, so that the 8-ball j-u-s-t plops into the pocket, and the cue ball nuzzles up against either the long or shot rail, with position for the rest of your run out.

Nice shooting, btw!
-Sean

 

[BeiberLvr]

Thanks for relaying those results. Obviously categorizing "results" this early is premature, but if you had to, would you say overall that you played better, equal, or worse than your normal "aim-think every shot" style of play? I would agree that it could be that a bigger run would've helped lay the foundation for a better comparison between the two "techniques."

That shot you show is one of my favorites to warm-up with, btw! It's also a pet shot in 1p, where you have BIH behind the headstring, and, with a cluster of balls right behind (closer to the foot rail than) that 8-ball, you hit this shot SOFTLY, so that the 8-ball j-u-s-t plops into the pocket, and the cue ball nuzzles up against either the long or shot rail, with position for the rest of your run out.

Nice shooting, btw!
-Sean

14.1 no difference.

9ball, I played much better with not thinking.

Now that brings up the next question. Is my subconscious level of play improved due to conscious practice with SEE and Pro One? I believe so.

 

[JB Cases]

I absolutely dogged it trying to run two racks while calling out the aiming on each shot. I guess I shouldn't have also tried to do commentary as well. But I can't help it I am chatty cathy in front of the camera.

Will try again later. Maybe do a 14.1 series of videos where I run until I miss and check the progress. At the current rate I should be up to 28 balls in about a month.

I will call them lunchtime 14.1 and set up a break shot and run as many as I can each day at noon on video until I miss. Should be good for getting me weight if nothing else.

 

[BasementDweller]

"Lunchtime 14.1" -- boy once NBC catches wind of this I'm sure they are going to be burning up your cell phone. I can just about picture this now on my channel listing as I'm scrolling through 280 channels looking for something interesting. "Look honey, it's JB again. Would you mind grabbing me a sandwich? I don't want to miss this."

Seriously though - I once quit playing pool for years because I told myself if I can't run 25 balls tonight than I suck and I will never play again. Well, the pressure kept mounting and after a while I couldn't even get through the 1st rack. So I quit playing and I joined the Air Force. I now realize how bad I sucked back then. It's still hard for me to make any sort of significant run on command. I'm amazed at the old 14.1 legends that could run a 100 balls on command. Even the clip of Mosconi where it breaks open the rack and just runs them all out is impressive to me since it was on live TV.

 

[mohrt]

I absolutely dogged it trying to run two racks while calling out the aiming on each shot. I guess I shouldn't have also tried to do commentary as well. But I can't help it I am chatty cathy in front of the camera.

Will try again later. Maybe do a 14.1 series of videos where I run until I miss and check the progress. At the current rate I should be up to 28 balls in about a month.

I will call them lunchtime 14.1 and set up a break shot and run as many as I can each day at noon on video until I miss. Should be good for getting me weight if nothing else.

Just play and put an audio track over the video later. It's easier to stay in the zone that way

 

[JE54]

Gerry, good job. Any more you can do on 14.1 or 9 ball is appreciated. It helps by you calling them out because I / we can verify what we would do for the shot.

 

[sfleinen]

14.1 no difference.

9ball, I played much better with not thinking.

Now that brings up the next question. Is my subconscious level of play improved due to conscious practice with SEE and Pro One? I believe so.

And I would agree with you, to a point. Afterall, you "embed" a system by going through its step consciously, but you also, IMHO, have to integrate some what I like to call "take the harnesses off, and just fly" practice. Put the rubber to the road and drive.

Obviously, this was too early to draw any conclusions. It's encouraging that your 9-ball play went up when you told your busybody backseat driver (the conscious mind) to shut up. I think the more you do this, the more you'll see your performance go up. It might be steady incremental jumps you practice, or it might be one of those where you flatline out for just a little bit, but then make another incremental jump later, flatline out a bit, another incremental jump, etc. In fact, the latter is what I experienced. I think it's the process of "learning to trust yourself" that causes this.

It might seem foreign to those that've always deliberated and scrutinzed the minutiae of shooting a pool shot, but it's something that, once you get it, you'll experience pool in whole new enjoyable way. You'll get in the zone that much quicker once you tell that busybody backseat driver to shut up.

-Sean

 

[JB Cases]

"Lunchtime 14.1" -- boy once NBC catches wind of this I'm sure they are going to be burning up your cell phone. I can just about picture this now on my channel listing as I'm scrolling through 280 channels looking for something interesting. "Look honey, it's JB again. Would you mind grabbing me a sandwich? I don't want to miss this."

Seriously though - I once quit playing pool for years because I told myself if I can't run 25 balls tonight than I suck and I will never play again. Well, the pressure kept mounting and after a while I couldn't even get through the 1st rack. So I quit playing and I joined the Air Force. I now realize how bad I sucked back then. It's still hard for me to make any sort of significant run on command. I'm amazed at the old 14.1 legends that could run a 100 balls on command. Even the clip of Mosconi where it breaks open the rack and just runs them all out is impressive to me since it was on live TV.

I just watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6B1XncJoD0

You HAVE to watch it. I won't spoil it but if you haven't seen it you will thank me.

In this video it is said that Mosconi ran over 100 more than a 1000 times and ran over 200 more than 500 times. Think about that.

 

[sfleinen]

I absolutely dogged it trying to run two racks while calling out the aiming on each shot. I guess I shouldn't have also tried to do commentary as well. But I can't help it I am chatty cathy in front of the camera.

Will try again later. Maybe do a 14.1 series of videos where I run until I miss and check the progress. At the current rate I should be up to 28 balls in about a month.

I will call them lunchtime 14.1 and set up a break shot and run as many as I can each day at noon on video until I miss. Should be good for getting me weight if nothing else.

John:

Thank you for doing this. You don't have to enumerate the details of what you're doing on every shot to try to get a good run, unless that's your intent -- to prove the "conscious mind vs. subconscious mind" thing. (I.e. you're trying to kill two birds with one stone -- get a good straight pool run on video *and* prove you can have your conscious mind in play 100% of the time, which I think is a bit too much to take on all at once.)

I personally think you'll get a nice run on video, because you're a very accomplished player. The only thing that's going to get in your way is the chatty cathy thing, because in that instance you're playing to the camera, and not to the intent of the video.

Looking forward!
-Sean