Question for the palmer collector
- Thread starter Ken_4fun
- Start date
I heard a number of 300 cues per week....(damn that is alot of cues). But obviously, I would guess that the majority of them were the lower cost ones.
I have heard about "rare" Gina cues, but I have seen tons of old Gina titlist conversions. Years ago I got pictures 4X6 of Gina cue production models. Very similar to Palmer, as they have "production" and one off.
Southwest, another "production" cuemaker, basically has one model but you can change the rings and woods mostly. I would venture that Barry/Gus Szam and Laurie at Southwest have the best records of all their cues.
I would be surprized if someone is making 300 cues a week has exact numbers but I would like an intellgent guess. I would think the number of model M palmers would be damn low.
Ken
I have heard about "rare" Gina cues, but I have seen tons of old Gina titlist conversions. Years ago I got pictures 4X6 of Gina cue production models. Very similar to Palmer, as they have "production" and one off.
Southwest, another "production" cuemaker, basically has one model but you can change the rings and woods mostly. I would venture that Barry/Gus Szam and Laurie at Southwest have the best records of all their cues.
I would be surprized if someone is making 300 cues a week has exact numbers but I would like an intellgent guess. I would think the number of model M palmers would be damn low.
Ken
Ernie makes and made about 100 cues a year, some years 115, some years 70, it averages about 100. Tad about the same 80 -100 cues a year. Balabushka made cues for about 15 years and there were supposedly 1000 to 1200 cues made.
South West is less than 200 a year. Somebody just straightened me out on that as I though their pin numbers related to production.
The modern "Palmer" company might make numbers approaching 300 a week (but I doubt that), but there's no way that number is anywhere close to their production through the years for their 1st through 3rd catalogs.
Kevin
South West is less than 200 a year. Somebody just straightened me out on that as I though their pin numbers related to production.
The modern "Palmer" company might make numbers approaching 300 a week (but I doubt that), but there's no way that number is anywhere close to their production through the years for their 1st through 3rd catalogs.
Kevin
PALMER CUSTOM CUES COMPANY
Maker of pool cues from 1964 to 1994 in Elizabeth, New Jersey.
The Palmer Custom Cues Company was founded in 1964, by Eugene Balner and his son, Peter, after ending a partnership with Frank Paradise the same year. Balner had escaped from Hungary with his wife and children in 1956, during the country´s communist revolution. A wood turner in Hungary, he was soon working in the United States at a company that made pool cues.
By 1961, Eugene Balner was a partner with Frank Paradise. Three years later, Balner was making cues right across the street. The name "Palmer" was inspired by Arnold Palmer, one of the most recognized names in sports at the time. Eugene felt the name Balner was not recognizable enough to be appropriate for the new company. Eventually, Eugene was more widely known as Gene Palmer.
The first Palmer catalog was introduced in 1965, and featured eleven cues and two cases. All of the cues were available with either a nickel silver or brass joint. The Paradise influence was obvious on these cues, especially on the ones with the Palmer name under clear plastic windows in the butt sleeves. Another feature influenced by Paradise was the availability of screw-off ferrules. None of the cues had bumpers, as Balner believed these to be features of lesser quality cues, and ten of the eleven had points.
The first line of cues proved to be very successful, and within a few years a new catalog was introduced. The second Palmer catalog featured thirteen new cues with letters for model designations ranging from Model A to Model M. The most visible change in these cues was that the butt caps were twice as long, but they still were without bumpers. The new cues also used a thicker joint that seated more securely, and Irish linen was being used more for the wrap. The most sought after cue from this line is the Model J, which has an ebony forearm and four maple points. Some of the blanks for this model were made by Gus Szamboti or Burton Spain, specifically for Palmer. This cue can give a collector the opportunity to own and appreciate the quality of a Gus Szamboti splice. The Model M was the most expensive and elaborate cue from this line. With winding veneers running down an ebony forearm, inlaid with mother-of-pearl dots and notched diamonds, this cue is one of the most recognizable production cues ever made.
Although these were production cues, Balner was able to make each one to the specifications of the individual customer. The company became so proficient at this that by the early seventies they were making approximately 200 cues per week.In January of 1972, Eugene Balner passed away. His widow, Ilona, and son, Peter, were left to lead the company during its most productive years. At this time, the company´s only serious competitor in cue manufacturing was Viking, in Wisconsin, but by the early 1970s, several new companies such as McDermott, Meucci, Joss, and Adam were entering the market.
The next Palmer catalog met the competition with twenty new cues, now with bumpers and most with stainless steel joints. On these cues, less plastic was used, while exotic hardwoods were becoming more prevalent. The first eight-point cue was introduced and cues with blanks by Gus Szamboti were still available. Most of these blanks had bird´s-eye maple forearms, four ebony points, and black, orange, chartreuse, and maple veneers.
For Christmas of 1975, Palmer made 100 cues with Szamboti blanks that had black, red, blue, and white veneers to commemorate the upcoming bicentennial. The points on the Szamboti blank cues are much sharper and a little longer than on other Palmers, sometimes coming within 2 1/4 in. of the joint collar.
During the late 1970s and the 1980s, Palmer expanded its line of billiard supplies and increased its foreign markets. The company stopped making cues in 1994. Today, Peter Balner is CEO of the Palmer Video chain, which he started out of the Palmer billiard showroom in 1981.
Collectors are now acquiring Palmer cues, especially the ones from the first two catalogs. The early models with inlay work on the shafts seem to be the most popular. Many Palmer cues will have the original customer´s name under a clear plastic window in the butt sleeve. Palmer cues made for famous players such as Minnesota Fats are prized pieces in any collection, and are hard to evaluate because of their historical significance. In 1998, Peter Balner bought a percentage of CueSport, a cue manufacturing company in Sheffield, Massechusetts. There is talk of reintroducing the Palmer name with an all new line of American-made cues.
If you have questions about a Palmer cue that is in need of repair, contact Paul Rubino, listed in the Trademark Index.
Note: Palmer´s first and second catalogs are shown in color in the 2nd Edition Blue Book of Pool Cues.
Wondering if Kevin will admit an error....LOL.
Ken
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No what I am looking for is "HOW MANY OF EACH MODEL"...
Ken
I don't think that info is forthcoming and that 200 cues a week seems extremely high. That shop was (as I understand) Gene and his wife and sometimes Peter and those 3 kicking out 10,000 cues a year, pre-CNC (or after really) seems a little overboard, but, anything is possible.
Good luck in finding what you need.
Kevin
Sorry Kevin that isnt accurate either.
The article that I read said that they had "about 10" employees other than Gene's wife and Peter.See "Sticking to a business on the ball"
http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory2.html
Ken
Sorry Kevin that isnt accurate either.
See "Sticking to a business on the ball"
http://www.palmercollector.com/Palmerhistory2.html
Ken
That's great stuff. I wonder what happened to those people that worked for them?
Kevin
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Good question, I know that alot of times appretices end up making cues too.
ie, Bob Frey (Tim Scruggs), James White (Paul Mottey), etc.
Chris has good information but there were several un-asked or unanswered questions that I would like to know.
Did, Gene's wife, Peter, or Pete Margo keep any of the old cues?
What do they think of their status of collectable pool cues that THEY made?
I understand they they are wealthy, and thats okay, but dont they miss the cue world and the strange cast of characters in pool?
Where are they living now?
etc.
Ken
Ken
yeah that's what I was thinking and I always thought they worked alone just because I never heard of anyone making cues that had learned from them. Other than the Paradise deal.
Kevin
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Peter Balner writes...
“My goal at Palmer was to sell a quality, custom made product that was very attractive at very reasonable prices relative to the market, and offering typical delivery of 3 to 4 weeks when other cue makers had 6 to 12 month delivery periods. At our peak, we were turning out 300 cues per week!”
A special thanks to Peter Balner for his great contribution and recollections.
From the Palmer Collector website....
Just found where I read the 300 number....old age.
Peter Balner writes...
“My goal at Palmer was to sell a quality, custom made product that was very attractive at very reasonable prices relative to the market, and offering typical delivery of 3 to 4 weeks when other cue makers had 6 to 12 month delivery periods. At our peak, we were turning out 300 cues per week!”
A special thanks to Peter Balner for his great contribution and recollections.
From the Palmer Collector website....
Just found where I read the 300 number....old age.
That blows my mind. That's a for real factory, but Peter would know.
Thanks
Kevin
Goulden's collection is awesome. I think he told me (like Chris) there is one of the catalog Palmers he is yet to acquire. I'd love to hold him up for it.
I was looking at the cues he brought to the last ICCS show and he had a Spain out. I mentioned that I liked Spain, and he reached under his table and popped up with a case of maybe 8 Spains, at least 5 as large and unique as any I've ever seen.
Kevin
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My model M from the 2nd catalog does have a bumper. Yes, it's original...I bought it new.
Here's a pic of my model M in the case that came with it. I'll never sell it...after all, that's my name under the clear plastic ring. 
Another pic of it might show the bumper...this cue is not refinished or restored. Shortly after buying it, I quit playing for a few decades.
Another pic of it might show the bumper...this cue is not refinished or restored. Shortly after buying it, I quit playing for a few decades.
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