Somebody actually dug out this rule tonight!!!

[Dirtbmw20]

This is why I carry my own chalk. If it was the $30 chalk, it might cause a problem, you know

LOL, I also carry my own chalk and it stays in my pocket. I never place my chalk on the table at anytime for anything. And although a whole separate topic, don't get me started on people who set the chalk upside down on the rail and make a mess all over the place.

The jackasses (although very nice guys) we shot last night were all using RED chalk and would set it down upside down on the rail. Between the mess on the rail and the mess on the cloth, I had red chalk all over me last night. :angry:

 

[Donny Lutz]

Reasons for using chalk to aim...

You guys need to remember that this will really only be useful for lower handicaps.

A lower handicap will also aim at the chalk instead of the point on the rail which will result in an incorrect contact point in many cases. This is especially the case if you are at a large obtuse angle to the contact point.

I play some at a place that has bright white "party" lights (the owner loves them) on the ceiling, that create so much glare that it's difficult to see the diamonds! So I often place the chalk on a diamond for future reference.

By the way, the APA made me a 7 in 8-ball after playing one night in league in 1990. I didn't mind as I was already rated as a Master player by other organizations, but it did seem odd...

 

[Scaramouche]

I play on guy who uses the chalk as a target.
Finds the point on the rail he wants to hit, places the chalk.
Then he aims at the chalk, rather than the point on the rail.
Misses every time. :grin:
And he doesn't understand why.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

Kevin, that rule was changed much more than 2 years ago. Like many others, I never thought it was legal until Dale Dove told me about it and he hasn't been in the league for much more than 2 years.

It's legal in the APA.
I don't think it is legal in the BCA.
I don't know if its legal in TAP.

It pays to know the rules of the league your playing in. :shrug::crying:

Hey Rich, not arguing the rule just the fact that it wasn't publicized. The only other issue is that World-Standardized Rules don't allow it. So it's just one more contradiction.

Even if using a system ie: spot on the wall it still takes skill and effort on the part of the shooter to recognize the aiming point. That's why I feel, felt that the old way of doing it should be sufficient. Coach place the finger for the aiming point, let them sight it in, then walk away.

But, either way it is allowed so it's a mute point. Just thought it was a odd call to allow it.

Black Cat

 

[jrt30004]

You can actually use a piece of chalk as a purposely placed rail target for banking and kicking purposes. I normally support every rule being that I am a Division Rep however...... I was blown away by this one.

Black Cat

i've had people do it during a match. it's usually been done to help a lower handicap player so i don't mind much - seeing as how if they suck that bad they can't visualize the spot to hit without a visual aid they are going to need way more help than they can ever get in one or two timeouts. i have had one sl 6 in apa do it. i just shook my head because i had the exact same thought. if he sucks that bad that he needs to place a piece of chalk to mark his spot, he is going to need more help than that can offer him.
i try to let as much slide as i can in league play, because, it's league play. i play to win but i don't let it consume me. it's not my job, it's not my family. i just don't see it as something to warrant much anger as it used to.

all that being said, i am 42 and still enough of a jackass to lose it over something small like that on the right night. i have grown up but not enough.

jrt30004 = still a jackass on any given night

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I don't see the problem with using the chalk on the rail as a reference point. How is it any different than using something in the background? Also, how can this be enforced? Anybody could claim the opposing player is "marking" after each time they chalk....

I think the rules only say you cannot mark the actual playing surface....

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

FOUL !!!

...is laying your stick down and leaving unhanded it to measure.
Is that ok for your APA too?

Actually Oz, this is legal in BCAPL play as well.

---
To my mind, one of the worst rule in APA is the allowance of pattern racking. But let's face it, there are a lot of things different about how pool is played in APA. For instance, in reality 9 Ball isn't even played in APA. The so called 9 Ball format is really more akin to a handicapped game of slop rotation played with 9 balls and scored like straight pool.

I guess all these rules variations have to be taken in the context that the game is being played under a league structure and therefore the game itself is not the only consideration. Also relevant is the interests of the members, the management of the venue, and the league itself as a business (in the view of management). People play league for many reasons, not always to shoot pool under strict WSRs, but to have a night out with friends, get away from the kids for a few hours, relieve stress, have a few drinks, meet new people.

Given that, it seems the APA has concluded that it is best to simply allow many things that would normally carry a high degree of deniability and therefore lead to unpleasant arguments and disputes. Constant arguments over rules violations, especially those that are easily denied, would not make for a pleasant experience for many members, and that would probably not be good for business.

The BCAPL on the other hand, seems to have set itself up more for pool players wanting to play by recognized rules, and therefore the rules are much more in line with WSRs. But because even BCAPL members participate for reasons other than just hardcore pool alone, there seems to be relatively few problems with even the deniable rules (at least in my league). People play by the rules but are also generally very civil and sportsmanlike maybe because they're not just there to compete but also have fun. For instance, I've yet to see a dispute occur when a player has failed to clearly call the 8 Ball.

It's hard to argue that both these approaches seem to have worked well for their respective organizations. Obviously the APA is successful. And so is the BCA.

 

[uwate]

in miami you are allowed to push right through any ball as long as you are elevated. My first session in league I couldnt believe all the blatant push fouls I saw. At cities I left my opponent near froze to his ball near where you rack. He need to get down table to make my next shot difficult but i had him in spot where you could only go side to side and not up and down. He jacks up and just pushes right through it and goes to the other side of the table. I remember I called over the apa operator to call the hit and he yells out "GOOD HIT!". lmfao. That was about as big of a foul as you will ever see. His cue tip might have hit the cueball 3 or 4 times as he pushed right on through.

This rule might not even be a national apa rule and a local thing. The apa operators in miami might have wanted to discourage arguing and phone calls so they allow it.

 

[uwate]

Thinking about this more just cracks me up. Its one of the running jokes among the players down here in miami that you cannot foul no matter how many times your cue hits the cueball as long as you elevate.

Im playing a friend who doesnt play apa and we are playing one pocket and i leave him froze up against the stack and he goes to the table and jacks up and starts cueing directly into the stack. He turns to me and smirks and says "we are playing apa rules right??" i can only imagine if apa played 1p how crazy that would be. Id push right through the stack and keep on going until pinned the cueball up against the rail near my opponents pocket.

i think im going to practice that so that when the moment comes up i can push the cueball like 4 ft and smash it up against a rail for a safety. Just so I can do it and have the apa operator yell "GOOD HIT!"

it would be so worth it. new practice drill!

 

[cuesblues]

i can only imagine if apa played 1p how crazy that would be

APA one pocket isn't that far fetched>>:smile:
Instead of just ball spot, sometimes the handicap would have to be like 10-6 and a wild pocket

 

[Maniac]

I have a girl we shoot with that HATES the rule with a passion, and every single time I see someone place a marker, she goes right over and moves it, and there's nothing they can do about it except *****, shoot the ball, or go back and forth moving the marker. EVERYTIME so far, the shooter just says f it and shoots.

I'm gonna tell you right here and now, if that girl pulled that sh*t on me (not that I'd ever mark a rail with a cube of chalk), she'd get a severe tongue-lashing, and deservedly so. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY on the opposing team has any reason to walk up to MY table and do anything other than check to see if a ball is frozen to a rail, and even that ought to be done in a timely manner. Don't try and tell me there's nothing I can do about it. That's some kind of piss-poor attitude, worrying about some piece of chalk on a rail that ultimately is not going to be the difference in hitting the object ball or not.

If it's a rule that it is legal to do so, then she had better keep her ass in her chair.

You'd better tell her to cut that practice out before somebody taking the game seriously gives her a severe ass-chewing.

Maniac (damn, what ever happened to ethics/morals/sportsmanship???)

 

[fastone371]

Our league is not APA so I am not sure what everyones skill levels are but I have no problem with people coaching and pointing/marking the point that the person should aim for. I think 9 times out of 10 they wont even hit that spot anyway. I always try to explain to a real low level player on our team to aim thru to the diamonds on the table not directly on the cushion that coincides with that particular diamond but it just wont sink in. Maybe the problem is me and I aim wrong, I am not sure, but I think if we all help the lower level players improve it makes them enjoy the game more which is good for the sport, or is it a past time?

 

[cuesblues]

I'm gonna tell you right here and now, if that girl pulled that sh*t on me (not that I'd ever mark a rail with a cube of chalk), she'd get a severe tongue-lashing, and deservedly so. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY on the opposing team has any reason to walk up to MY table and do anything other than check to see if a ball is frozen to a rail, and even that ought to be done in a timely manner. Don't try and tell me there's nothing I can do about it. That's some kind of piss-poor attitude, worrying about some piece of chalk on a rail that ultimately is not going to be the difference in hitting the object ball or not.

If it's a rule that it is legal to do so, then she had better keep her ass in her chair.

You'd better tell her to cut that practice out before somebody taking the game seriously gives her a severe ass-chewing.

Maniac (damn, what ever happened to ethics/morals/sportsmanship???)

I would take her out for a nice seafood dinner and never call her again>>:smile:

 

[Maniac]

I would take her out for a nice seafood dinner and never call her again>>:smile:

But....then she'd smell like "fish" !!!

Maniac

 

[lorider]

I'm gonna tell you right here and now, if that girl pulled that sh*t on me (not that I'd ever mark a rail with a cube of chalk), she'd get a severe tongue-lashing, and deservedly so. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY on the opposing team has any reason to walk up to MY table and do anything other than check to see if a ball is frozen to a rail, and even that ought to be done in a timely manner. Don't try and tell me there's nothing I can do about it. That's some kind of piss-poor attitude, worrying about some piece of chalk on a rail that ultimately is not going to be the difference in hitting the object ball or not.

If it's a rule that it is legal to do so, then she had better keep her ass in her chair.

You'd better tell her to cut that practice out before somebody taking the game seriously gives her a severe ass-chewing.

Maniac (damn, what ever happened to ethics/morals/sportsmanship???)

damn maniac, here i thought i was yaking this league thing too serious.

i can just picture it in my mind.

poor lil 5' girl comes up and moves your chalk. 6' you pulls a sgt, carter on her ass , gets in her face and says " WHAT THE FVCK YOU THINK YOU DOIN MOVIN MY CHALK " lmao :thumbup:

 

[Maniac]

damn maniac, here i thought i was yaking this league thing too serious.

i can just picture it in my mind.

poor lil 5' girl comes up and moves your chalk. 6' you pulls a sgt, carter on her ass , gets in her face and says " WHAT THE FVCK YOU THINK YOU DOIN MOVIN MY CHALK " lmao :thumbup:

I would do it, but I'd really use a LOT more tact than Sgt. Carter would :thumbup:. FWIW, I'm 6'1", 225 lbs.

You do see my point about an opposing player walking up to your table and f*cking with the chalk though, right. I mean, somebody somewhere down the line is going to give her an earful if she keeps it up.

Maniac (NEVER takes pool seriously, but believes BIG in good sportsmanship)

 

[klockdoc]

In my opinion that is like not fair, what difference does it matter whether it's touching the cloth or not. It's still and artificial point of reference that isn't built into the table, I can't see how it can possibly be legal.

When in a coaching time out situation you can place your finger on the rail to show the aim point till your player fixes on the spot then remove your finger and leave the table area before they shoot, but to actually place a reference point has always been an illegal ploy.

Black Cat

What if you reference a point on the table with your finger....have the person you are coaching, site the spot....then side step (leaving your finger on the spot) and allow the shooter to fixate a spot on the wall for reference?

Either discontinue use of showing a spot...or allow all use of reference points. Not partial abilities.

 

[stumpie71]

Hey Rich, not arguing the rule just the fact that it wasn't publicized. The only other issue is that World-Standardized Rules don't allow it. So it's just one more contradiction.

Even if using a system ie: spot on the wall it still takes skill and effort on the part of the shooter to recognize the aiming point. That's why I feel, felt that the old way of doing it should be sufficient. Coach place the finger for the aiming point, let them sight it in, then walk away.

But, either way it is allowed so it's a mute point. Just thought it was a odd call to allow it.

Black Cat

The rule had been publicized for many years at the front of the rule book stating no intentional marking of the playing surface. It has recently been put under the 8 ball section, with a more detailed explanation to help stop disputes I would assume. This rule has been in affect for more than 14 years, so it isn't a recent change.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

What if you reference a point on the table with your finger....have the person you are coaching, site the spot....then side step (leaving your finger on the spot) and allow the shooter to fixate a spot on the wall for reference?

Either discontinue use of showing a spot...or allow all use of reference points. Not partial abilities.

That's exactly how it's always been done, at some point in the last 3 or 4 years the rule was changed but wasn't made common knowledge. So when it came up last night I obviously cried foul. I was only stating that the ability to use a physical reference placed on the rail other than the Diamonds is going to far. However now that I know the current version of the rule no problem moving forward.

Black Cat

 

[stumpie71]

What if you reference a point on the table with your finger....have the person you are coaching, site the spot....then side step (leaving your finger on the spot) and allow the shooter to fixate a spot on the wall for reference?

Either discontinue use of showing a spot...or allow all use of reference points. Not partial abilities.

The person coaching must leave the playing area before the players attempts their shot.