Main Forum = CJ Wiley Forum now?

For every action there is a reaction, the bigger action there is bigger reaction.

I value CJ´s posting a lot, for me they have great value and a lot of insight. And boy he can play!!! To talk and play that well - goes beyond what I thought was possible but now that I know he helped me to raise the bar, watch out CJ:p:). The Usain Bolt of pool, he can do the walk - effortlessly:smile:

Have a nice evening everyone, time to hit the sack in Sweden now:smile:

Chrippa
 
When one walks into a library they are faced with the daunting prospect of trying to find their books amongst thousands upon thousands of books, perhaps even located on multiple floors. By utilizing the Dewey Decimal Classification System, which subdivides books into predetermined classifications, one can then find their chosen books by using the old-fashioned card files or the newer computer systems.

In a similar manner, a pool forum that has thousands upon thousands of threads becomes much more cumbersome to use when the information is not somehow categorized into subdivisions (sub-forums). With sub-forums, one can group threads together by association which makes it easier for people to find the information they are looking for.

While we probably don't need to become overly granular by having too many sub-forums, I think everyone will agree that we do need some sub-forums for the more popular topics. Sub-forums like the one for "Straight Pool" make sense as those posters know exactly where to go to get the information they need.

When the decision was made to create a sub-forum for "Aiming Systems" over a year ago, that was also a highly controversial topic at the time, however, the decision was long overdue. This poll taken in 2010 indicated that 66% of the respondents thought there should be a new aiming forum: "Should there be a new aiming sub forum?" http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=189070 Now that we have a new aiming forum, posters know where to go when they have a question about aiming systems. Although some aiming topics tend to be more controversial than others, for the most part the discussions are much more civil than they used to be on the Main Forum.

With regards to CJ, I think his threads generate enough interest that it makes sense to group the threads together into their own forum. With CJ's own sub-forum, people can find information on TOI, people can ask questions and get answers from CJ, and CJ can share his experiences in a forum where people can easily find it.

The topics are much more civil because Mr. Wilson laid down the law on it. The fact of it is that when the aiming subforum was created the naysayers followed right into it and continued the same attacks that caused so much argument previously. Mr. Wilson issued a very clear statement about the situation well after the aiming forum was established and THAT is what made it somewhat more civil.

And the same thing applies here. If people would be civil and not post just to harass then these threads would die their natural deaths.

Let's examine a hypothetical thread.

How to USE TOI.

1. I am confused how to use TOI. - newplaya
2. TOI works like this........... - CJ Wiley
3. CJ what do you mean by a touch? - poolstudent
4. A touch is this....... - CJ Wiley

No further questions? Thread is done.

Now let's examine the same thread with negativity tossed in.

How to USE TOI.

1. I am confused how to use TOI. - newplaya
2. TOI works like this........... - CJ Wiley
3. CJ what do you mean by a touch? - poolstudent
4. A touch is this....... - CJ Wiley
5. WTH is TOI - you yanks are off your bloomin rockers with this nonsense. - snooker lover
6. why don't you admit that TOI is some bogus thing you made up? - amateur guru
7. Who did you ever beat? Did they play pool in 1996? - sirknocksalot
8. Pros don't know what they are doing and can't teach - instructoman
9. I was just over in England with the Mosconi Cup and had several conversations with snooker pros who like TOI - CJ Wiley
10. I didn't make anything up I was taught this by a road partner and I perfected in during my time in Tampa, TOI has been around a while as a top technique only known among top players. We play a different game than you do. Which is why we can give up the six to shortstops. - CJ Wiley
11. Well I beat Efren for the cash, beat Johnny Archer, and here are some of my videos of me winning in tournaments.....- CJ Wiley
12. Well maybe some pros can't teach but I have been teaching since 1996 and have hundreds of satisfied students, as well I have training in many other fields which allow me to translate those concepts as they apply to pool. - CJ Wiley
13. Well, you don't know best practice and state of the art in instruction in 2013..... instructoman
14. What those matches were in the stone age play someone now if you want to prove you are good, you scared? - sirknocksalot
15. you're a wanker with wanking ideas if you think any snooker player would seriously consider your nonsense as a valid way to play, all you pool players suck and pool sucks. - snooker lover
16. ........CJ Wiley
17. ........ Sirknocksalot
18. ..............CJ WIley
19. ..............instructoman
20 ..........Amateur Guru
21. ......... TOI student
22. ............. Pool student.
23. ............. Old Pro
24. ............. Forum Activist
25. ............... CJ Wiley
26. ............ Snooker lover
27. ...............
28. .............
29. ................
30. .................. Repeat

and the thread then has no end because this sort of conversation can and does literally go on forever sucking in people on both sides who all have to get their licks in.
 
leave well enough alone. CJ isnt hurting anything by being on the main forum. For those who feel like the end of the world is comming by allowing his post to stay on the main forum may I suggest you get a grip on reality and get some serious professional help. Just dont read his post if it bothers you that much.....Sometimes it like dealing with high school children in here........Just deal with it.......CJ I enjoy reading your post and watching all your vids...And besides Billy I's post says a lot.........Rock on .....


Perhaps then we should get rid of all sub-forums, no? Not hurtin' nothin'... those that can't deal with it can get professional help (and get a grip)... folks can just not read posts that bother them...

Lou Figueroa
just sayin'
 
Perhaps then we should get rid of all sub-forums, no? Not hurtin' nothin'... those that can't deal with it can get professional help (and get a grip)... folks can just not read posts that bother them...

Lou Figueroa
just sayin'

Would actually be a great idea. And hire a few more mods to tamp down the personal attacks and watch what happens. Threads with truly interesting CONTENT would remain on top as long as people wanted to talk about the TOPIC and threads that are boring would move down quickly.
 
Love him or hate him the one thing that shouldn't be disputed is his ability as a player and the methods he's teaching. Personally I feel that what we are getting from Cj is certainly worth the price we're paying, what ever it is. I look at forums the same way I look at an inning of one pocket. I go to the table ..we log on into the forum...I then look at my options....as we look,at the available topics (threads)...I then decide what shot is best for me considering how I feel and then I focus and execute....Isn't that exactly the method you used in deciding to read this post? I really don't have the answers to the question of...how much is too much...only you can answer that question. However, I can honestly say that I am grateful to CJ for posting his teachings, he has got me back to playing more confident by putting more emphasis on ...respecting the hit with the cue ball....My accuracy has improved and I now have more consistency with my game. I also like when he says that he tries to use the same speed with every shot. Using the same speed or close to it lends to consistency, which in turn raises your percentage of succeeding. The last time I looked this was a pool forum...am I missing something?

Bill Incardona

Double and triple tap! :thumbup:
 
CJ Wiley; I want the Game/Sport to get better and that's why I'm here. If you choose to believe it's to sell DVD's that''s ludicrous said:
The vast majority of readers know this. A small group of disgruntled posters is baiting you and hoping for a meltdown. Don't waste your time replying in self defense. Do what you do best...promote the game. View attachment 266185

Best,
Mike

I 2nd. that.
 
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This is the guy some of you would like to see leave AZB or conform to your idea of how he should present his ideas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7jO0tjdPPk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0W9iMpRLvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqnvdM58Eu0

How many people do you know who have reached not only the top of their sport but also then created successful businesses from it? I don't know how many people on this forum have ever owned their own business or have ever been responsible for a large staff but it's difficult.

CJ is the voice of experience on many levels in the pool world. Everyone on the forum, other pros included could learn a lot from this man.

I 2nd. that too.
 
Perhaps then we should get rid of all sub-forums, no? Not hurtin' nothin'... those that can't deal with it can get professional help (and get a grip)... folks can just not read posts that bother them...

Lou Figueroa
just sayin'

Im sure the mods are more than capable to determine if a thread needs to be moved or not..Why such all the sour grapes towards CJ a little jealous maybe?? .or maybe you would ask for your own JUST ASK LOU thread....would that make you happy.........
 
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Im sure the mods are more than capable to determine if a thread needs to be moved or not..Why such all the sour grapes towards CJ a little jealous maybe?? .or maybe you would ask for your own JUST ASK LOU thread....would that make you happy.........


lol, ah the "jealousy" card again (it's becoming a favorite here). Trust me -- CJ has nothing I want ;-)

And of course, the powers that be will ultimately decide what they decide. We're *all* just running things through the goose.

Lou Figueroa
 
You were there at the very beginning

Love him or hate him the one thing that shouldn't be disputed is his ability as a player and the methods he's teaching. Personally I feel that what we are getting from Cj is certainly worth the price we're paying, what ever it is. I look at forums the same way I look at an inning of one pocket. I go to the table ..we log on into the forum...I then look at my options....as we look,at the available topics (threads)...I then decide what shot is best for me considering how I feel and then I focus and execute....Isn't that exactly the method you used in deciding to read this post? I really don't have the answers to the question of...how much is too much...only you can answer that question. However, I can honestly say that I am grateful to CJ for posting his teachings, he has got me back to playing more confident by putting more emphasis on ...respecting the hit with the cue ball....My accuracy has improved and I now have more consistency with my game. I also like when he says that he tries to use the same speed with every shot. Using the same speed or close to it lends to consistency, which in turn raises your percentage of succeeding. The last time I looked this was a pool forum...am I missing something?

Bill Incardona

I appreciate you saying that Billy, glad to help you any way I can. We've had "differences" through the years, as has many players, however, it's getting to the "end game" and I want to give something back to this game as I know you have and continue to do.

You were there at the very beginning (my first Pro Tournament in the USA) when I played Steve Mizerak in Reno, Sigel in L.A. (Bicycle Club) and many other places we've crossed paths.

Thanks, Billy, you're made a great mark in the world of pool and I appreciate you and what you have done and continue to do.

Aloha, and Continue to Play Well,

CJ
 
Top 20 Players in the United States that will gamble with me please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masayoshi
I think his point was more addressing the definition of world class. If you consider a world class player to be one of the top 10 in the world, CJ might have been considered that at one point in time, but would have been borderline if considered at all and certainly would not be included in that list today. If your definition of world class extends to the the top 100, he would have certainly been considered world class at one point, and might still be if he lives up to recent hype, but its yet to be proven.
Man, I appreciate you saying that...now I can get a lot of action, I'm sure the line will be long to play me.

Maybe someone can start a post of exactly who these "100 players" that will play me are. I promise I will start at the bottom and play every single one of them. This isn't "woofing" this said with joy. Getting action isn't exactly as easy as you indicate.

As a matter of fact besides the top 5 in the country I'm not sure who else will actually play some 1000. sets. I say this because I don't want to "high roll" anyone, then you'll say that's the reason they won't play. Let me be loud and clear,

I'll play anywhere from $20 a game to $200 a game and put up 10 games (at least). The line's open, just not Shane, I had to play him last time I went to DCC and it messed my action for two years. I learned my lesson, anyone else is welcome, let's get a list of 20 out of the 100 and I may play them all with in a week or two.

We can set up appointments like the old days. This is fair isn't it? I would really enjoy playing someone every day and if there's really 20 in this country that will play me, then I'm ready to start in a week. Someone round them up and "let's play pool fast eddie".
 
Seems there is a need to double post about the great CJ. Two post about the same same subject matter seems to be appearing more and more....one shows up in the main and one in the aiming section.
Why stop there.....I mean there is still the Ask the Pro, Ask the Instructors, and a few more that could be spammed.

Good grief.......
 
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Prewarhero posted a simple question/opinion as to whether it was appropriate for CJ Wiley to be using the main forum to sell his products. He clearly stated that he was not bashing CJ or his work. While there was no shortage of opinions, many of them well reasoned, there were some that tried to turn this into something that it was not.

Mr. Wiley himself illustrated that the original point being made by Prewarhero had merit when he turned a personal attack on someone named “Lou” showing a picture of Lou Ferrigno and then providing the link to his website so that we could “discover our best game and start winning”. (I must admit that I found some humour in it when he started using this thread to pitch his wares.)

Mr. Wiley, no one was advocating that you not benefit from the sale of DVD’s etc. no one was asking that you give it away and I think that your statement “that people are coming out of the woodwork to try to destroy TOI before it can spread the “good news” is another example that you cannot refrain from the temptation to use this main forum as a vehicle to sell your wares. Prewarhero is right in thinking that you might have went beyond the boundaries of good taste in this respect and should reign it in (my words) and, as others have indicated, put your commercial ventures into a more appropriate forum. I noticed that by the end of the thread JB cases had started his advertising again (great looking case by the way).

There are many skilled players, pro’s and road players, that are generous in their sharing of knowledge with those lesser players such as I and I have been fortunate to know a few. In addition, I have bought instructional DVD’s and found them to be helpful. I am sure that CJ Wiley is as generous in freely sharing his knowledge with his friends/acquaintances and for the rest of us his DVD’s, are available to be purchased and would help expand our knowledge and add to our game.

The issue was simple, Prewarhero felt that the use of the main forum as a personal advertising site was becoming too frequent and I believe that any reasonable person can see that this is the case (sorry for the pun JB) in some instances.
 
lol, ah the "jealousy" card again (it's becoming a favorite here). Trust me -- CJ has nothing I want ;-)

And of course, the powers that be will ultimately decide what they decide. We're *all* just running things through the goose.

Lou Figueroa

Who's goose? :confused:
 
heck- give him his own section for all I care

You know, in all seriousness, I think that might be a good idea. He is very active here, and we're lucky to have him, whatever you think about the nature or frequency of his sales pitches.

After seeing him playing Strickland et al, I'm convinced that he certainly deserves to be considered one of the top pool players of the past fifty years, although I am not (yet) convinced about the whole TOI thing.

In any case though, when someone with that much experience and proven ability spends this much time posting in a public forum, it's probably worth giving him his own section. It would keep the anti-CJ people happy, as they could simply never visit that area of the forum ...and it would also be of value to those who want to read what he says, because they'd always know where to go for that info.
 
Post away CJ, there are many of us that you've helped greatly. No one is forced to read threads that you're involved in. Most of them were not even started by you, that's the funniest part of all.

Many choose to live in a box, I prefer to think outside myself. Live on and thanks for sharing! Good stuff in my opinion!
 
No one has complained when others selling systems post on the main forum, telling a road story and finishing with a blatant pitch for the system or product they're selling. And they tend to bump their own threads. There's lots of them. Why single out CJ?

I don't get it...when I peruse the forum, I go to new posts; so regardless of whether or not CJ is relegated to a sub forum, I'd still see those posts--and I'm sure the complainers would, too. If you don't want to read about TOI, don't. If you don't like to color of the wallpaper or the organization of the subforums, go back to Jimbo's Army. Most of us are just fine with things the way they are.
 
I dont really mind CJ threads in the main forum... He doesnt have his own forum yet and I still wouldnt mind a few in the main forum if he did.

I cant stand all the TOI stuff in the main forum though. There was a Aiming forum designed just for that type of conversation.
 
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