What happened to gambling during tourneys?

Diamond69

Diamond69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Back in the 80's and 90's, simply walking into a bar to play pool, the norm was to play for a drink or a couple bucks. If you were in a tournament, it was common to bet your opponent on the match. If it was a $10 tournament, maybe $5 was bet on a best of 3 match. If it was a $40 tourney, maybe $20 was bet.
A year or two ago I asked a couple of my opponents and was looked at like I was from outer space. So I just stopped asking.

Anyone else notice this change? Or is it just me?
 
The current pool crowd seems to be mostly nits. (I said mostly, so I'm leaving room for you folks who are not!) No gambling, everything must be handicapped, etc. There are some folks with pride in their games who will put a little cash on the line and the old schoolers like me who won't back down from a challenge like that. It's more motivation to win. Sorry to rant. I don't even ask my opponents. I wouldn't want to offend anyone and have them get all butthurt.
 
I made it to the finals one weekly tourney and it was late. The guy said he was tired- can we just split? I had to work the next day, too, but I said, well, we made it this far, why don't we just play for it all- that'll be exciting!

I had four people including the tourney director yelling at me hard for trying to put a "move" on him. Felt really unfair- I honestly thought the excitement would wake us both up so we could play a great match, and now I've got an gang of angry men yelling at me.

Some tourneys have hard fast rules about no gambling during matches. Some tourneys define "asking to gamble" as "bad sportsmanship."

I kind of see the point, but on the other hand, sometimes it's really just an honest offer of fun, with no worries if they decline. Hell, I'll decline if I'm broke- there's nothing wrong with saying no, and you don't HAVE to keep that "no" in your head.
 
I wasn't around for the old days when this was commonplace. I can tell you that today, it looks like a move... where you're basically saying "I think I can make you choke". Comes off as a bit cocky.
 
From the BCA-PL rule book.

While I do not agree with it the BCA-PL difines it as unsportsmanlike.

1-45 Unsportsmanlike Conduct (AR p. 93)
1. You must not commit any act that is unsportsmanlike in nature. This includes, but is not limited to: actions that are embarrassing, disruptive, or detrimental to other players, spectators, referees, event officials, or the sport in general, or any act that makes a travesty of the game. Offering to gamble with opponents or spectators during your match is specifically defined as unsportsmanlike conduct.

Anyone that offers to split deserves the counter offer to play for it all.
 
JolietJames said:
The current pool crowd seems to be mostly nits. (I said mostly, so I'm leaving room for you folks who are not!) No gambling, everything must be handicapped, etc. There are some folks with pride in their games who will put a little cash on the line and the old schoolers like me who won't back down from a challenge like that. It's more motivation to win. Sorry to rant. I don't even ask my opponents. I wouldn't want to offend anyone and have them get all butthurt.
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I think you nailed it on the head here. When I was playing leagues in the Joliet and Chicagoland areas, we almost always had side bets on our matches and very rarely ever played any type of pool game where there wasn't at least a few bucks on the line. The league crowd here in MN is in it for who is on the MVP list and and point totals. Unless you get into playing with a lot of the upper echelon players, nobody bets a nickel on anything!
 
no action

Yes, used to be you could make more gambling than playing a tournament.It has to be a generational / economy thing. I mean some people need a heart transplant and a decent paying job.
Locally I have had the window wide open to play for money for 3 years. I have a few guys that will play, but they arent even 10% of the players. Most get the 8 and a game to the 6 out. When I win with that they want more.
I was playing $50 sets with a guy a few weeks ago. That is a fortune around here. I overhear 2 guys in the doorway talking about me and that I would never give the the weight I have told them. One gets the 8 and should just play me straight up, the other I will give the 7 and stone cold rob. I told them both right there that I would play either of them with those games, best 2 out of 3 sets for $200-500.... silence.
I mean if you are going to bark, mean it.
 
Splitting

blah blah said:
I made it to the finals one weekly tourney and it was late. The guy said he was tired- can we just split? I had to work the next day, too, but I said, well, we made it this far, why don't we just play for it all- that'll be exciting!

I had four people including the tourney director yelling at me hard for trying to put a "move" on him. Felt really unfair- I honestly thought the excitement would wake us both up so we could play a great match, and now I've got an gang of angry men yelling at me.

Some tourneys have hard fast rules about no gambling during matches. Some tourneys define "asking to gamble" as "bad sportsmanship."

I kind of see the point, but on the other hand, sometimes it's really just an honest offer of fun, with no worries if they decline. Hell, I'll decline if I'm broke- there's nothing wrong with saying no, and you don't HAVE to keep that "no" in your head.
Click to expand...

I would say that 75% of the finals are split here. I refuse to doit. Isnt a tournament meant to find out who the best player is?
I have played for it all in the finals, really makes a fun set for spectators and players. I stopped asking because people get offended if you even ask.
 
blah blah said:
I made it to the finals one weekly tourney and it was late. The guy said he was tired- can we just split? I had to work the next day, too, but I said, well, we made it this far, why don't we just play for it all- that'll be exciting!

I had four people including the tourney director yelling at me hard for trying to put a "move" on him. Felt really unfair- I honestly thought the excitement would wake us both up so we could play a great match, and now I've got an gang of angry men yelling at me.

Some tourneys have hard fast rules about no gambling during matches. Some tourneys define "asking to gamble" as "bad sportsmanship."

I kind of see the point, but on the other hand, sometimes it's really just an honest offer of fun, with no worries if they decline. Hell, I'll decline if I'm broke- there's nothing wrong with saying no, and you don't HAVE to keep that "no" in your head.
Click to expand...

I knew there was something I liked about you.:clapping:
Many players get lost in the 'how to' aspect of this game and forget that
pool is a war game...like chess or boxing.
You fight your opponent...the correct shot is the winning shot.

SEND IT!
 
gregcantrall said:
While I do not agree with it the BCA-PL difines it as unsportsmanlike.

1-45 Unsportsmanlike Conduct (AR p. 93)
1. You must not commit any act that is unsportsmanlike in nature. This includes, but is not limited to: actions that are embarrassing, disruptive, or detrimental to other players, spectators, referees, event officials, or the sport in general, or any act that makes a travesty of the game. Offering to gamble with opponents or spectators during your match is specifically defined as unsportsmanlike conduct.

Anyone that offers to split deserves the counter offer to play for it all.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I did this once at a smaller tournament in St. Louis of about 36 people. I had to be double dipped and the winner of the looser bracket was in the looser because I had put him there. He offered to split with me and I countered with winner takes 1st and 2nd place prize money.

He backed down and lost the match and was pissed that I didn't split. Ridiculous.
 
Cdryden said:
I agree completely. I did this once at a smaller tournament in St. Louis of about 36 people. I had to be double dipped and the winner of the looser bracket was in the looser because I had put him there. He offered to split with me and I countered with winner takes 1st and 2nd place prize money.

He backed down and lost the match and was pissed that I didn't split. Ridiculous.
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yeah- an even split doesn't make sense in a D/E tourney.
 
Very little action now-a-days

Its not a move, if you dont want to gamble, no big deal, but no one should be offended if someone ask them to gamble in a POOL HALL???

90% of this fourm talks/brags about action, so if your asked and you dont like it, just say I dont gamble.

To your question, it just does not happen anymore. I think the fact that so few big name players match up hurts the game. I like what TAR does, but I have been to many tournaments and pool halls and watched as players just sat and waited for easy action and avoided each other.

Thats way there are so few American players that can compete with the players from other countries.
 
It's a different world out there now Diamond. Too many people worried about hurting someones feelings. People with thin skin think everything is a move nowdays. I say if they can't hack it they should take up playing checkers. I'd play you for a couple bucks and wouldn't think you were sharking me by asking.
 
I have found it's a toss up if you ask to gamble in the first stages of a tournament. Because you really don't know who and how your opponent plays. He might be a first timer and take offense to it.

But later when, up to,or nearing the finals, I have found most will put $20 on the side without any issues.

But when you ask,,do it quietly without any eye contact. It makes saying no for your opponent much easier without issues.
 
Diamond69 said:
Back in the 80's and 90's, simply walking into a bar to play pool, the norm was to play for a drink or a couple bucks. If you were in a tournament, it was common to bet your opponent on the match. If it was a $10 tournament, maybe $5 was bet on a best of 3 match. If it was a $40 tourney, maybe $20 was bet.
A year or two ago I asked a couple of my opponents and was looked at like I was from outer space. So I just stopped asking.

Anyone else notice this change? Or is it just me?
Click to expand...

I've noticed this as well. From my experience, it seems that as the gambling side of pool has dwindled the leagues have really taken off. Or maybe it was the other way around. A lot of casual league players will play tournaments, but have no interest in wagering.
 
Cdryden said:
I agree completely. I did this once at a smaller tournament in St. Louis of about 36 people. I had to be double dipped and the winner of the looser bracket was in the looser because I had put him there. He offered to split with me and I countered with winner takes 1st and 2nd place prize money.

He backed down and lost the match and was pissed that I didn't split. Ridiculous.
Click to expand...

He had no right to even ask to split, unless he won the first set of the finals, that or propose something reasonable.

One of the better players in our room made the finals and had to play a guy who doesnt cone out much, but plays a great game. The regular never splits, but asked this time. The better player declined, then beat him 7-1. You cant blame him for askingg, I guess, but he showed his ass by doing so. Why not just man up and try to beat the guy?

I am looking to start a regional 10 ball montlhy event fir bigger money. The splitting crap is one thing that makes me hesitate. It isnt fair to room owners or the people there to watch.
 
cueporn said:
He had no right to even ask to split, unless he won the first set of the finals, that or propose something reasonable.

One of the better players in our room made the finals and had to play a guy who doesnt cone out much, but plays a great game. The regular never splits, but asked this time. The better player declined, then beat him 7-1. You cant blame him for askingg, I guess, but he showed his ass by doing so. Why not just man up and try to beat the guy?

I am looking to start a regional 10 ball montlhy event fir bigger money. The splitting crap is one thing that makes me hesitate. It isnt fair to room owners or the people there to watch.
Click to expand...

In most of the local tournaments I play in, splitting is very common. Sometimes the tournament runs late and it is a matter of convenience for people who have to work early in the morning.

I really don't care either way, but keep in mind I'm talking about cheap weekly tournaments where most of the regulars know each other.

You're right though, no one has reason to get mad for someone not splitting.
 
My problem is not so much the lack of action. At the pool halls and tournaments i go to there is always a game. My problem is that when i try and play someone near my level of play they just WILL NOT play unless i spot them something. It's always, "did you see me shoot tonight?" "You shoot way better than me" "blah blah freakin blah" Too many people now are playing just for the money. Obviously we are all playing for the money but have some damn pride. I'm a relative newbie to the game, been playing for about a year and a half, and i know who is better than me but unless they are way better than me I'm not going to **** around with a spot. My pride is worth more to me than my money. If someone is around my level at all I'll play them even, and if someone is actually much worse than me I will give a spot. When someone is clearly much better than me I will go two ways. If I'm playing for any decent amount of money I'll ask for a fair spot. Other wise I'll play them in a game where i SHOULD lose just for very cheap. I actually really like this situation because I always learn something, and I am forced to play better. If i end up winning anything it's just icing on the cake.

I feel like too many people are all about the hustle and the money, not about the game. When i play it's about the game. Now I don't play for huge money. I think the most I've ever lost is $100 and the most I've ever won is like $75. If i was playing $500 sets or something things might be different but I don't have that kind of money and I don't think my game is quite there yet.
 
cueporn said:
He had no right to even ask to split, unless he won the first set of the finals, that or propose something reasonable.

One of the better players in our room made the finals and had to play a guy who doesnt cone out much, but plays a great game. The regular never splits, but asked this time. The better player declined, then beat him 7-1. You cant blame him for askingg, I guess, but he showed his ass by doing so. Why not just man up and try to beat the guy?

I am looking to start a regional 10 ball montlhy event fir bigger money. The splitting crap is one thing that makes me hesitate. It isnt fair to room owners or the people there to watch.
Click to expand...

I agree about the room owners getting cheated a bit by the split, but I don't really know how you can avoid it 100% of the time. I usually dont go for the split, I prefer to go all or nothing. I hate to get that far and basically give up in a sense. I understand though why some people want to do it. It's just not my thing.

It used to be that people would gather around to watch the final match, now people leave after getting knocked out and there usually isn't a final match! I miss the old days!

I think you should go ahead and try a few tournaments just to test the waters. It might not be as bad as you think.
 
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