Make It Happen

JAM said:
Before my words are embellished, dissected, ripped apart, misinterpreted, examined, and rewritten countless times in this thread, let me repeat my sentence: I don't want to call the race card on this, but it's starting to stink.

I've been around the pool world for a long, long, long time, longer than some of the members posting here are alive on this earth. For at least two decades, 20-plus years, Cliff Joyner has been *the* best one-pocket player in America. He had to give up crazy weight just to get played. Before Efren, there was Grady Mathews, Ronnie Allen, and then Cliff Joyner, pretty much in that order.

I find it incredulous that he seems to be "overlooked," for lack of a better word, in one-pocket happenings.

I remember some of the top one-hole players in my area asking him for weight in 2002 at Q-Masters. Nobody wanted to play him. He was just that tough.

Maybe some folks haven't been involved in the pool world long enough to understand how strong Cliff Joyner's one-pocket game is. To compare Sylver O. and others to his legacy, IMO, there's no comparison. Make no mistake about it, I consider Cliff Joyner the best one-pocket player in the last 20 years.

Does he play as good today as he did in 1995 or 2000? Probably not, but I'd like to know how many people on this forum actually did witness Cliff's one-hole game in his prime. Those who did will know what I am referencing in this thread.
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Originally Posted by JAM
I am happy for the one-pocket aficionados that Accu-Stats is taking the ball and running with it by presenting this great extravaganza. It is pretty cool, in fact.

That said, I am once again disappointed to see Cliff Joyner, the best American one-pocket player of the '90s and 2000s, a player who had to give up EXTREME weight in one-pocket action, is not considered worthy enough.

The very fact he is not included in the One-Pocket Hall of Fame has always been upsetting to me personally, considering his speed in one-pocket compared to those who have been inducted ahead of him.

I don't want to bring up the race card in this, because I actually do *not* believe it is racially motivated. Is the fact that he continues to be overlooked for one-pocket events based on Internet popularity? Is it based on popularity in general? I'm not sure, but it is a travesty, as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, I realize women's opinions don't matter much to some, as evidenced by reading some of the replies on this and other pool forums to women, as if their contributions don't mean squat, but I'm expressing myself here anyway, so there.

Jenny I addressed your post over at One Pocket.org, below is my reply to your post:smile:
Jenny, you and others are disappointed that the great Cliff Joyner wasn't chosen as one of the 6 players to compete in this event. However, there can only be 6 players chosen. Cliff was one of the players that just missed getting in when the votes were tallied. There can also be a case made for Sylver Ochoa and Gabe Owens who also narrowly missed getting into the field of six. This tournament was made possible by the people that bought a package to support Accu-Stats and with the package came the voting rights to choose who they would like to see play in the event. Personally, I think that the votes submitted got it pretty close to right, if not right. When you talk about the 4th. 5th. and 6 th. best one pocket players in the world there's always going to be a heated debate. Heck...we can't even decide who the best player is...let alone who the 5th and 6th. Best players are. Any ways I happen to like and respect Cliff not only for his ability as a player but also how he handles himself when competing. He's always been a gentlemen, and a very good sport whether he wins or loses, that can't be said for many of the top players.

As far as Cliff not being inducted into the One Pocket Hall Of Fame....will the sun come out tomorrow?.....is it cold in Alaska?

Say hello to Keith for me, and have a great day.
By the way, your opinion is always welcomed with me.

Bill Incardona
 
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wincardona said:
Originally Posted by JAM
I am happy for the one-pocket aficionados that Accu-Stats is taking the ball and running with it by presenting this great extravaganza. It is pretty cool, in fact.

That said, I am once again disappointed to see Cliff Joyner, the best American one-pocket player of the '90s and 2000s, a player who had to give up EXTREME weight in one-pocket action, is not considered worthy enough.

The very fact he is not included in the One-Pocket Hall of Fame has always been upsetting to me personally, considering his speed in one-pocket compared to those who have been inducted ahead of him.

I don't want to bring up the race card in this, because I actually do *not* believe it is racially motivated. Is the fact that he continues to be overlooked for one-pocket events based on Internet popularity? Is it based on popularity in general? I'm not sure, but it is a travesty, as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, I realize women's opinions don't matter much to some, as evidenced by reading some of the replies on this and other pool forums to women, as if their contributions don't mean squat, but I'm expressing myself here anyway, so there.

Jenny I addressed your post over at One Pocket.org, below is my reply to your post:smile:
Jenny, you and others are disappointed that the great Cliff Joyner wasn't chosen as one of the 6 players to compete in this event. However, there can only be 6 players chosen. Cliff was one of the players that just missed getting in when the votes were tallied. There can also be a case made for Sylver Ochoa and Gabe Owens who also narrowly missed getting into the field of six. This tournament was made possible by the people that bought a package to support Accu-Stats and with the package came the voting rights to choose who they would like to see play in the event. Personally, I think that the votes submitted got it pretty close to right, if not right. When you talk about the 4th. 5th. and 6 th. best one pocket players in the world there's always going to be a heated debate. Heck...we can't even decide who the best player is...let alone who the 5th and 6th. Best players are. Any ways I happen to like and respect Cliff not only for his ability as a player but also how he handles himself when competing. He's always been a gentlemen, and a very good sport whether he wins or loses, that can't be said for many of the top players.

As far as Cliff not being inducted into the One Pocket Hall Of Fame....will the sun come out tomorrow?.....is it cold in Alaska?

Say hello to Keith for me, and have a great day.
By the way, your opinion is always welcomed with me.

Bill Incardona
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Thanks, Billy. Always good to read you! I appreciate you sharing your wisdom. :)
 
vapoolplayer said:
Wut......????

Time to make an appt with your eye doctor if this is a serious post.......
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LOL! I know. I'm glad you noticed. :)

Welcome to AzBilliards, the place where no matter what you write, there will always be that one special someone who can embellish, dissect words, and thereafter and provide a reply that doesn't even make sense. :D

I'm actually a white African American. :D
 
vapoolplayer said:
Wut......????

Time to make an appt with your eye doctor if this is a serious post.......
Click to expand...


Actually I watched several of his matches and it wasn't until some1 mentioned "black" did I notice any AA characteristics in Cliff's appearance.

Cliff might be happy that he is not in the 1PHOF yet,I think its worth like 2 balls when making a game LOL.

Cliff is a great one pocket player but I think they got the field for this event just right.

He will get in for sure 1 day.
 
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JAM said:
LOL! I know. I'm glad you noticed. :)

Welcome to AzBilliards, the place where no matter what you write, there will always be that one special someone who can embellish, dissect words, and thereafter and provide a reply that doesn't even make sense. :D

I'm actually a white African American. :D
Click to expand...

Hah, another dissection coming up, JAM.:smile:
I went to school with two White Africans...born in Africa of two missionaries.

I like Cliff Joyner's one-pocket in his prime....but if we're talking about people
when they played their best...then a glaring omission is Jose Parica.
In 2000, I saw him playing Cliff at the Norfolk Q-Masters...he was giving Cliff 8/7.
A young Alex was chatting with Jose in Tagalog...Cliff looked up from his shot
and said to Alex "Don't tell him what to do."....everybody cracked up.:rotflmao:
Cliff had grace under pressure...and he got the cash that day.
 
JAM said:
LOL! I know. I'm glad you noticed. :)

Welcome to AzBilliards, the place where no matter what you write, there will always be that one special someone who can embellish, dissect words, and thereafter and provide a reply that doesn't even make sense. :D

I'm actually a white African American. :D
Click to expand...


LOL,I was joking around about the term African American the other day with friends.I don't care for the term but "black" is offensive to some people?..no idea really....What does an American travelling to Africa call a black skinned African?If a Canadian moves to the U.S. are the a Canadian American or what?If a Caucasian U.S citizen emigrates to an African country are they an American African?
 
pt109 said:
Hah, another dissection coming up, JAM.:smile:
I went to school with two White Africans...born in Africa of two missionaries.

I like Cliff Joyner's one-pocket in his prime....but if we're talking about people
when they played their best...then a glaring omission is Jose Parica.
In 2000, I saw him playing Cliff at the Norfolk Q-Masters...he was giving Cliff 8/7.
A young Alex was chatting with Jose in Tagalog...Cliff looked up from his shot
and said to Alex "Don't tell him what to do."....everybody cracked up.:rotflmao:
Cliff had grace under pressure...and he got the cash that day.
Click to expand...

I love that story. :love2:

Jose is in the HOF, but when I read the names of the players in the One-Hole HOF today, with Cliff not being one of them, it makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I realize people get voted in by Internet forum members, so it is what it is. Maybe if Cliff posted on forums, he'd be relevant in today's online pool world. :)

He most definitely, though, is relevant to the game of one-pocket.
 
smoooothstroke said:
LOL,I was joking around about the term African American the other day with friends.I don't care for the term but "black" is offensive to some people?..no idea really....What does an American travelling to Africa call a black skinned African?If a Canadian moves to the U.S. are the a Canadian American or what?If a Caucasian U.S citizen emigrates to an African country are they an American African?
Click to expand...

We actually have this discussion at work all the time, but it's more tailored on punctuation.

I am a quarter Cherokee, and as such, I have Native American heritage. Notice there is no hyphen in "Native American."

African-American is hyphenated before a noun, when used as a descriptive adjective, though the trend is changing to leave it out altogether.

Then you have Asian-Pacific Islanders in the Asian-Pacific region of the world.

The words "black" and "white" are lowercased, but when you have a sentence like, say, "The white candidate ran against the African American candidate," it looks odd to have lowercase "w" for "white" and nish-capped "A" for "African American."

Love this kind of talk. :grin-square:
 
wincardona said:
Support Accu-Stats and the game we all love...One Pocket.

The best 6 one pocket players in the world will be playing a round robin format on the Diamond 5X10 pool table in New Jersey starting on April 11th thru April 14th. Go to ...Accu-Stats On Line... to purchase the stream.

Alex Pagulayan
Scott Frost
Shane Van Boening
Efren Reyes
Cory Deuel
Shannon Daulton


This is a tournament that we can't afford to miss, please support Accu-Stats and help them stay relevant as they continue to bring to us the best of the best in pool.

Thank you,

Bill Incardona
Click to expand...

How exciting, thanks for the update.
hugs
mrs.g
 
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JAM said:
We actually have this discussion at work all the time, but it's more tailored on punctuation.

I am a quarter Cherokee, and as such, I have Native American heritage. Notice there is no hyphen in "Native American."

African-American is hyphenated before a noun, when used as a descriptive adjective, though the trend is changing to leave it out altogether.

Then you have Asian-Pacific Islanders in the Asian-Pacific region of the world.

The words "black" and "white" are lowercased, but when you have a sentence like, say, "The white candidate ran against the African American candidate," it looks odd to have lowercase "w" for "white" and nish-capped "A" for "African American."

Love this kind of talk. :grin-square:
Click to expand...


English was my worst subject in HS,or is that english?Good thing for the reading classes giving english credits or I would still be in high school.I love to read and have been doing so since I was a small child.Its funny,I can read well to others,pronouncing everything perfectly and understanding the punctuation but when it comes to writing I cannot even place an apostrophe.

I have a good friend who I used to play pool with in a bar in the late 90s.His mother is Korean and his father African (U.S. soldier).To me he was just a dude but to some peeps he was a black guy.We used to crack up laughing at the way some guys would speak to him.A guy would come in and say"hey Mikey what up brudder?"in this high voice like trying to be all hip hop or something.We would just look at each other and then bust out laughing later.
 
It's nice once again a few people hijack a thread. No wonder people leave here, it's not about pool anymore.
This should be a great thread about some pretty sporty pool players
and a few of you just run it in the crapper.
Good job.
mrs.g
 
JAM said:
We actually have this discussion at work all the time, but it's more tailored on punctuation.

I am a quarter Cherokee, and as such, I have Native American heritage. Notice there is no hyphen in "Native American."

African-American is hyphenated before a noun, when used as a descriptive adjective, though the trend is changing to leave it out altogether.

Then you have Asian-Pacific Islanders in the Asian-Pacific region of the world.

The words "black" and "white" are lowercased, but when you have a sentence like, say, "The white candidate ran against the African American candidate," it looks odd to have lowercase "w" for "white" and nish-capped "A" for "African American."

Love this kind of talk. :grin-square:
Click to expand...

I got a serious problem with two continents being named after Amerigo Vespucci....
..but the period before the Europeans came is known as Pre-Columbian.

Why aren't these two great land masses called Columbia?

Is it too late to get a name change?:eek:
 
Gunn_Slinger said:
It's nice once again a few people hijack a thread. No wonder people leave here, it's not about pool anymore.
This should be a great thread about some pretty sporty pool players
and a few of you just run it in the crapper.
Good job.
mrs.g
Click to expand...

Threads take twists and turns all the time on this forum. It happens.

Posting on this forum should be fun. You are right. This is a great thread about sporty pool players, but just because a few members, some of whom know each other from posting for years on this forum and have become friends, drift off on another topic, it should not upset you this much to say they have "run it in the crapper." Comments like that run threads into the crapper. :(

I'm glad Accu-Stats is having a one-hole event. Forum friends should never add a little levity to a thread. Just the facts from now on. What a great place AzBilliards is today.
 
Dang look what I started

My bad guys. Didn't mean to start a race card war! Lol but to answer Jam. I have been there to see Cliff drum up action before.

Outrageous spots! 17-5 playing a certain tournament director in the south :wink:

That's beside the point. I just think its great that we have a great battle going down at one of the most pure games in our sport. I don't even play one pocket but I can appreciate it!

And the F is this guy who said Cliff is Caucasian? :eek: not to put u on blast but I mean... Ah nvm too easy
 
Gunn_Slinger said:
It's nice once again a few people hijack a thread. No wonder people leave here, it's not about pool anymore.
This should be a great thread about some pretty sporty pool players
and a few of you just run it in the crapper.
Good job.
mrs.g
Click to expand...

These are called 'asides'...I feel they're the spice of a good conversation.
...so did Shakespeare.

And speaking of hijacking...Alex beat Jose 4/0 in a 1-hole tournament once...
..Alex dropped a ball on his first break and ran 8...Jose broke and Alex ran 8...
Alex broke, dropped a ball and ran 8 again...Jose broke and Alex ran 8.
I doubt if Jose ever had another 1-hole match where he only got to hit the
cue-ball twice.

and I'm in the Lion's corner in this event....C'MON ALEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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