TAR match with top female players?

I'd like to see a 10 ball match between one of those stone cold killer chinese woman players vs a top 10 or 20 american guy.
 
JB Cases said:
Also as I said there is nothing in it for Kelly to take on a coin flip for the cash. Let's assume Chris is right and Kelly has ZERO chance playing even. Why she even consider it for a second in that situation?

Let's assume that it's a coin flip why would she consider betting her own or even her backer's money on a 50/50 proposition? Unless her backer was insistent the he or she wanted to just see the game I don't see why Kelly would need to go into a game like that.

I mean you know as well as I do that taking on matches where it's a coin flip is a good way to stay broke. If I were rich I'd back it just because I'd want to see if Kelly could do it because I think she can. But that's only my feeling on it having watched her play and having watched Chris play. But I would only do it if I could burn $10,000 and not feel it. Because I believe it's a coin flip.

I think it comes down to stats as well. The ladies simply make too many unforced errors under the heat. They play great and shot for shot can play as good as any man. But under pressure against someone that can fire back at them they don't have the seasoning to hold up. That's the real difference in my eyes.

As I have said before I'd love to take Kelly across the country playing $1000 dollar sets with a guarantee that we would play twice against every man, once on the first trip and once on the return trip. I predict that Kelly would lose a lot on the first trip through and on the second she would win a lot having gained a lot of seasoning.

Then again, it's all fantasy conjecture on a forum at this point.
Click to expand...

I don't know if she has zero chance you said that I said that
I didn't start this stuff but I see my name in this thread a lot.
It's really dumb to talk about it
If any girl wants to play me a long set I will play
I'm not starting threads about it but for some reason my name comes up all the time about this
It's simple if anyone really wants to find out if they can win let's play race to 100
Or 15 ahead
 
Kelly is the only woman on the planet with a remote chance. Very seasoned gambler and against solid male competition.

John,
Why do we need a gate and all. All we need is her stake horse, I'll make sure it's streamed for FREE and all can see it. No need for PPV, I'll cover the stream.
 
I hate to muddle this up with facts, but I will take the position that a male vs fema

iusedtoberich said:
You guys are all wasting time. None of the ladies are going to play the men. It hasn't happened in 30 years (maybe a few isolated times), its not going to happen now.

Regarding PPV, Accustats and TAR both know what sell. The top players sell, and not much else. And by top, its top 10 men, not even top 100 men. The women just don't fit into it.

Not being sexist, just calling it like I see it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes these days I feel like the pool world is an episode of the 'Twilight Zone'.

I hate to muddle this thread up with facts, however, I will take the position that a male vs female match is marketable. Furthermore it's not even close, let me tell a story that happened in 96 at the ESPN World Open Championships. I story of when Pro Pool was on ESPN, not streamed for free. :confused:

In 1996 I won the ESPN World Open and qualified as the man to play the ESPN {highly publicized} Battle of the Sexes and Vivian Vivareal
2006GreatLakesClassic02.jpg
won the WPBA ESPN World Open and qualified for the ladies position. We played a race to 7 for $60,000 1st and $40,000 for second.

ESPN told us a few weeks after the match that 3.8 MILLION VIEWERS watched 'The Battle of the Sexes' and the total prize for that one match was $100,000 (Sanctioned by the WPBA and the PCA).

I would be willing to bet more people watched that match overall (including all rebroadcasts) than ALL streamed matches combined (unique viewers). I'm talking about ALL steaming video combined since day one.

So those that think the males are the only ones that people want to see are very far off base. I don't have the exact numbers, but I believe there were over 10 Million People Internationally that saw that Battle of the Sexes in 96.

How times have changed, now we're talking about doing a "free stream" and betting $10,000 or $20,000......ESPN probably made over $10,000,000 in commercials off that one match in 1996......and now it's "common knowledge" that pool's not popular because the biggest matches are played in front of a few hundred people on "streaming video".

There's got to be some irony in this somewhere, I'm just having trouble seeing it, maybe Rod Serling can explain it clearly to me. :wink: 'The Game is the Teacher' PS: I am the defending 'Battle of the Sexes' Champion and will play Allison a race to 7 for the Title. :thumbup:

battle-of-the-sexes.jpg
rod-serling.jpg
 
real bartram said:
I don't know if she has zero chance you said that I said that
I didn't start this stuff but I see my name in this thread a lot.
It's really dumb to talk about it
If any girl wants to play me a long set I will play
I'm not starting threads about it but for some reason my name comes up all the time about this
It's simple if anyone really wants to find out if they can win let's play race to 100
Or 15 ahead
Click to expand...

I didn't say that YOU said it Chris I said that some have said it. Someone else mentioned that you said you would play any woman on the planet. I said I think it would be a tough match for you, my opinion, against Kelly.

It's all speculation until it happens. I know I mentioned Kelly's backer a lot in the past couple years. Did you ever contact him to try and make a game? If so what's the story on how come no game was made.
 
JumpinJoe said:
Kelly is the only woman on the planet with a remote chance. Very seasoned gambler and against solid male competition.

John,
Why do we need a gate and all. All we need is her stake horse, I'll make sure it's streamed for FREE and all can see it. No need for PPV, I'll cover the stream.
Click to expand...

That's cool, but as I said she is a pro. She wants to and should get paid just for showing up in these types of things. When she goes to any tournament now she can figure on getting into the money unless some sort of fluke happens.

What you are asking is for her to walk into a finals match against a tough opponent with at best a 50/50 shot at making some money. That's not the sort of thing Kelly wants at this point in her career.

Now if the backer is willing to fly her out and pay expenses then maybe it's worth taking a shot at winning 50% or less of the stake or walking away with nothing to show for several days of play.

I mean from our perspective as gamblers who love to match up it's a no brainer. But from her perspective as a pro who plays pool for a living and doesn't hustle pool for a living she would like a reasonable expectation of being paid for her time whenever she is going to perform for the public. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Although as I said, if I were wealthy then I'd make a game with Chris about two months from now for John's 20k or more and between then and now I'd have Kelly matching up against guys in the Philippines and Taiwan and China for sets between a few hundred and a few thousand. If that wouldn't make her battle ready then nothing would. That's just me and my wishful thinking talking.

And fwiw this isn't because I want to see her beat Chris or any top player because she is a woman. I think Kelly is a great player who happens to be a woman and because she is a woman she hasn't had the same path as a man in a similar situation. I think that if she had followed a similar trajectory then she would have only been better than she already is. As a pure player I think she lacks the type of seasoning that matching up brings. Although, as I said earlier she has played some matches, some where she was the one giving up monster weight. And she won some and lost some.

But I think she has never had the sort of road trips that Bart and many other players had during their formative years. She has never had to get in the grease on unfamiliar tables up against the nuts thousands of miles from home playing on fumes and her case dollar. That's the sort of thing that toughens you up and if you have the nerves you can transcend the back room and go on to be a great tournament player.

Kelly is already a great tournament player but not against the top men because she has never had that opportunity. When the UPA was active I asked Frank Alvarez point blank if he would allow Kelly to be on tour if she agreed to give up the WPBA events. He said no, that because she was a woman she could not EVER play in a UPA event. So that door was closed to her even if she had wanted to step through it.

So when we talk about who can beat whom and so on we have to remember that the women haven't had the same opportunities as the men. Oh sure they COULD have gone out and tried to match up like anyone else but the fact of it is that no matter where they go they are not treated equally and so it hangs in the air and affects the climate whenever a woman tries to match up with a guy.

All that said we have the here and now and I would like to see Kelly, the player, match up with everyone from Efren on down. That's the just me talking about my friend whom I think has it in her to play at world class level regardless of gender.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Sometimes these days I feel like the pool world is an episode of the 'Twilight Zone'.

I hate to muddle this thread up with facts, however, I will take the position that a male vs female match is marketable. Furthermore it's not even close, let me tell a story that happened in 96 at the ESPN World Open Championships. I story of when Pro Pool was on ESPN, not streamed for free. :confused:

In 1996 I won the ESPN World Open and qualified as the man to play the ESPN {highly publicized} Battle of the Sexes and Vivian Vivareal
2006GreatLakesClassic02.jpg
won the WPBA ESPN World Open and qualified for the ladies position. We played a race to 7 for $60,000 1st and $40,000 for second.

ESPN told us a few weeks after the match that 3.8 MILLION VIEWERS watched 'The Battle of the Sexes' and the total prize for that one match was $100,000 (Sanctioned by the WPBA and the PCA).

I would be willing to bet more people watched that match overall (including all rebroadcasts) than ALL streamed matches combined (unique viewers). I'm talking about ALL steaming video combined since day one.

So those that think the males are the only ones that people want to see are very far off base. I don't have the exact numbers, but I believe there were over 10 Million People Internationally that saw that Battle of the Sexes in 96.

How times have changed, now we're talking about doing a "free stream" and betting $10,000 or $20,000......ESPN probably made over $10,000,000 in commercials off that one match in 1996......and now it's "common knowledge" that pool's not popular because the biggest matches are played in front of a few hundred people on "streaming video".

There's got to be some irony in this somewhere, I'm just having trouble seeing it, maybe Rod Serling can explain it clearly to me. :wink: 'The Game is the Teacher' PS: I am the defending 'Battle of the Sexes' Champion and will play Allison a race to 7 for the Title. :thumbup:

battle-of-the-sexes.jpg
rod-serling.jpg
Click to expand...

And there you have it folks. Not 30 years ago and real!
 
JB Cases said:
I didn't say that YOU said it Chris I said that some have said it. Someone else mentioned that you said you would play any woman on the planet. I said I think it would be a tough match for you, my opinion, against Kelly.

It's all speculation until it happens. I know I mentioned Kelly's backer a lot in the past couple years. Did you ever contact him to try and make a game? If so what's the story on how come no game was made.
Click to expand...

No
But it's real easy
If you know him let him know ill play
And she can win x lot of money from
A guy who plays 4 pro tourneys a year
And about half the year
 
real bartram said:
No
But it's real easy
If you know him let him know ill play
And she can win x lot of money from
A guy who plays 4 pro tourneys a year
And about half the year
Click to expand...

Not my job sir. You and your backers should have or could have found out really easily who her backer is as he is well known in the Carolinas. Now she is in England so I am pretty sure any matching up between you both for private tournaments is off the table.

However stranger things have happened and maybe Justin is up for a TAR match between you both. Then maybe your camp and Kelly's backer can make some off-track wagers to get it out of the exhibition space.
 
JB Cases said:
Not my job sir. You and your backers should have or could have found out really easily who her backer is as he is well known in the Carolinas. Now she is in England so I am pretty sure any matching up between you both for private tournaments is off the table.

However stranger things have happened and maybe Justin is up for a TAR match between you both. Then maybe your camp and Kelly's backer can make some off-track wagers to get it out of the exhibition space.
Click to expand...

Yes ill call him and he will be like what are you talking about
She won't play you
You my friend are the 1 saying she will play
And you want to bet on her
So if you think she can win why don't you set this up ?
 
real bartram said:
Yes ill call him and he will be like what are you talking about
She won't play you
You my friend are the 1 saying she will play
And you want to bet on her
So if you think she can win why don't you set this up ?
Click to expand...

I said that I posted that Kelly had a backer MANY TIMES over the past three or four years and that ANYONE was free to call him.

NOW Kelly is living in England so she isn't free to head over to the pool room and play some.

I said IF you had called back then then you could have talked about making a game and possibly made one. But you didn't and so the point is moot.

As for her playing you NOW I said I think she COULD win but that it's a coin flip. I said I would bet on it IF it happened.

You seem to be getting upset for some reason over a match that logistically is pretty much off the table now. What we talk about on here is SPECULATION nothing more. However nothing in the world is stopping you from calling Justin or Pat Fleming and seeing what they think of it and perhaps they can make it happen for you.

And I already said I would pitch it to Fury and see if they are willing to put up some money.

Please try to remember that it wasn't me who put your name into this conversation. I am just discussing the topic and following the conversation. No need to be hot at me for saying I think Kelly has a slight chance to win.
 
SakuJack said:
Erm...


Just saying ;).
Click to expand...

Well I should have worded it differently, I should have said let's assume that those, or those in Chris' camp who think Kelly has no chance are right.....

It's only conversation and for that matter Chris HAS said that he thinks he can beat any female so obviously he wouldn't be willing to play if he thought he doesn't have the best of it.
 
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