TAR match with top female players?

I would buy a Chris Bartram vs Kelly Fisher match. I don't think TAR could make a steady diet of matches like these....but I think the PPV buys would be through the roof on this one.

However to make it competitive here is what I suggest.

Races to 11- Best out of 7. First player to win 4 races wins.
9 Ball- Rack the 9 on the spot-Winner breaks-neutral racker.

I think not only the pool world would love this match, but it just may get some mainstream attention too.
 
I would buy a Chris Bartram vs Kelly Fisher match. I don't think TAR could make a steady diet of matches like these....but I think the PPV buys would be through the roof on this one.

However to make it competitive here is what I suggest.

Races to 11- Best out of 7. First player to win 4 races wins.
9 Ball- Rack the 9 on the spot-Winner breaks-neutral racker.

I think not only the pool world would love this match, but it just may get some mainstream attention too.

I agree. This would be a better format for Kelly.
 
I would buy a Chris Bartram vs Kelly Fisher match. I don't think TAR could make a steady diet of matches like these....but I think the PPV buys would be through the roof on this one.

However to make it competitive here is what I suggest.

Races to 11- Best out of 7. First player to win 4 races wins.
9 Ball- Rack the 9 on the spot-Winner breaks-neutral racker.

I think not only the pool world would love this match, but it just may get some mainstream attention too.

I'd rather see Bartram play her some 10 ball, 15 ahead for $150,000. Some $10,000 a rack action to see if she can still draw her ball.
 
Bartrum vs Pro Female Player

I know what the right line is but I'm not putting that out here.... They're saying they can win even, they can put their money where their mouth is. Just in case they don't bet all of their money on the first play we have several options to get it all, I will say that.

It doesn't matter what the line is the woman can't win! I watched a guy from Michigan named Kenny beat Jeannette Lee so bad playing even and then he gave her a spot and beat her even worse. The women can't play with the men. This Kenny is an African American gentleman and plays good but I don't think he plays as good as Bartrum. That's why I say the women can't beat Chris.
 
I dont think she has much chance beating Max in any game.

Jasmin finshed third in the world 14.1 and Jeanette's high run is over 150 I think. Either of them are capable of beating Max or any other breathing human in a 150 point game of 14.1.
 
It doesn't matter what the line is the woman can't win! I watched a guy from Michigan named Kenny beat Jeannette Lee so bad playing even and then he gave her a spot and beat her even worse. The women can't play with the men. This Kenny is an African American gentleman and plays good but I don't think he plays as good as Bartrum. That's why I say the women can't beat Chris.

So you base your example on one match with one guy against one woman?

Well, all you have to do is raise some money to make it happen. Bobby Riggs was a lower level pro like Chris Bartrum is.

I think TAR should arrange it. Their format now is one where they don't depend on backers and I am sure that they could find some money from sponsors to back such a match. I bet Kelly Fisher vs. Chris Bartrum would draw some good PPV #s.

From my side of it I can ask Fury if they are willing to sponsor some of it. The owner of the factory used to back players when they came to Taiwan so he might be up for a little cheap action TAR style.

Those in power know how to contact me if they want to see me try and get Kelly on board.
 
You guys are all wasting time. None of the ladies are going to play the men. It hasn't happened in 30 years (maybe a few isolated times), its not going to happen now.

Regarding PPV, Accustats and TAR both know what sell. The top players sell, and not much else. And by top, its top 10 men, not even top 100 men. The women just don't fit into it.

Not being sexist, just calling it like I see it.
 
You guys are all wasting time. None of the ladies are going to play the men. It hasn't happened in 30 years (maybe a few isolated times), its not going to happen now.

Regarding PPV, Accustats and TAR both know what sell. The top players sell, and not much else. And by top, its top 10 men, not even top 100 men. The women just don't fit into it.

Not being sexist, just calling it like I see it.

Well you're wrong because it's happened and it will happen again.

Let's analyze this from another perspective. What's in it for the women to go head to head in a high profile match?

Will women as a whole suddenly get more respect? Will they earn more? Will they be treated equally? Will they be allowed to play in all men's events. Will this mean the end of women's events.

I mean everyone considers them to be B-class players which is why they still have a league of their own. And as long as they have a league of their own there will always be speculation as to whether the best women COULD compete with the men and if so at what level?

So a matchup like this won't settle that question because the sample size is too small. If Chris wins one match against one female then it's "proof" that all women are weaker than Chris. If the woman wins then it's "proof" that any top woman can have a lucky match. So there is almost ZERO upside to such a match from the woman's perspective.

Personally if I had the money then I would take some of the women to the Phillipines and to Taiwan and train them in secret and then march across the USA snapping off shortstops and work my way up and through guys like Bartrum's speed until I had won well more than a couple hundred thousand.

But that's a pipe dream as well for the reason that the first decent guy one of my killer women players crushes will be splattered all over the net and her action will be knocked.

I think that such Battle of the Sexes type match are great for promotional purposes, great for PPV, but ultimately don't REALLY mean anything larger than the match itself. I hear all the time that shortstops would CRUSH any woman but I also hear from Kelly that she had a pretty solid backer down in South Carolina and they tried to make games all the time and very few shortstops stepped up to the plate.

In fact very few top pros wanted to give up much weight either. Now the crowd on AZB seems to have the idea that any top pro could give Kelly the six out and be stealing but no top pro wants to give Kelly the six out from what I hear. So maybe these guys know a little more about how to evaluate her game than the amateurs on AZB.

I am not going to go as far as Jay does with Si Ming Chen and say that she can play these guys even gambling. I think it's not fair to compare any single woman to the top male pros because it's a mass makes class thing. Top males have little competition anyway precisely because they are at the top. Everyone else is playing for second place when these guys show up. They rise to the top through a massive amount of male players. Women on the other hand make up a small percentage of people playing so the odds that a woman will become as good as the top males is about the same as the odds that a random redheaded guy with curly hair will become as good as the top male pros.

One thing I am pretty certain of though in my heart is that if Kelly Fisher had been born a man and followed the exact same path then I am sure she would be a top contender simply based on her work ethic and understanding of the game.

Allison put it out there once that people can't really understand the derisiveness and insults that women have to contend with when they are coming up. They are simply NOT treated as equals, at times coddled and at times flat out harassed. When Allison was coming up if she beat a male player then she was often treated with hostility and told she was lucky or the guy played bad because he faced a woman. However if a male beat the same person then none of that was expressed.

I do believe that Kelly or any of the top females would be interested in doing the same type of TAR or ACCU-STATS challenge matches where they are getting paid for showing up. I don't think that they want to gamble precisely because it's tough action, the same reason why the top male players don't make it a habit to seek out the other top players to play on their own money. They wait for backers to arrange matches and they show up and play.

So it's a bit of an insult to say that these matches won't take place. Such a statement assumes that the women are scared or utterly incapable. This is not true at all. The top women can run out racks with the best of them. But they know full well how strong the top male players are and know that even if they were just as strong then at best it's a coin flip.

But put up a $5000 prize fund, pay their expenses and I bet you will find that not only will some Battle of the Sexes matches take place I think that the outcomes of some of them will be surprising to many.
 
It doesn't matter what the line is the woman can't win! I watched a guy from Michigan named Kenny beat Jeannette Lee so bad playing even and then he gave her a spot and beat her even worse. The women can't play with the men. This Kenny is an African American gentleman and plays good but I don't think he plays as good as Bartrum. That's why I say the women can't beat Chris.

If you are going to come on to an internet forum and post stories try and make sure they are correct.

Kenneth played Jeannette at Derby this year even nine ball on a Diamond 7' Bar table and after beating her we adjusted to even 10 ball. A spot was never given or offered. I set up the game, adjusted the game to 10 ball and staked the game so I have a pretty good idea how everything went.

The rest of it you have correct, Kenneth is a very good player but not anywhere close to Bartrum's level.

Back to the original question, I think Chris would beat any woman player and I would be willing to stake him for up to 20K against any of them.

A couple of years ago I asked Chris if he thought he could beat Karen Corr in 10 Ball with SVB breaking for her. He said he thought it would be tough be he would still win, this one I am not so sure about though I think that would be a very close game.
 
It doesn't matter what the line is the woman can't win! I watched a guy from Michigan named Kenny beat Jeannette Lee so bad playing even and then he gave her a spot and beat her even worse. The women can't play with the men. This Kenny is an African American gentleman and plays good but I don't think he plays as good as Bartrum. That's why I say the women can't beat Chris.

That would be Kenny Brisbon. And no he's not nowhere near bartrum speed. But I agree he beats Jeanette all day.

We don't need a accu stats or tar for this. We just need a backer for Kelly, don't want to see exhibition style. We can get a local streamer for a few hundo
 
That would be Kenny Brisbon. And no he's not nowhere near bartrum speed. But I agree he beats Jeanette all day.

We don't need a accu stats or tar for this. We just need a backer for Kelly, don't want to see exhibition style. We can get a local streamer for a few hundo

Kelly is unfortunately not in NC anymore. But I am sure you know or can find out who her backer was.

I have said it many times on here that anyone was free to go to him and make a game. Some did most didn't. She won some and lost some.

Now she lives in England and has a pretty full schedule. Thus my point about making it something where it's not gambling but there is something to be won.

Find a backer for the match and give up part of the "gate" and I am sure something can be arranged.

I will certainly pitch it on my part to the owner of Fury and to Kelly. But frankly I think TAR or Accu-Stats is probably the best avenue for this as they both have studios suited to a high class high quality production. As well they both have a loyal customer base they can market to.

My next choice would be Ray Hansen I think because of his experience and willingness to travel.

If Chris wants to come to China then we can probably arrange for him to play a few women for several thousand each set. He can make a Beat the Women tour and when he is done beating on them he can take on the men here. There is unlimited action in China for Chris.
 
JB Cases said:
Personally if I had the money then I would take some of the women to the Phillipines and to Taiwan and train them in secret and then march across the USA snapping off shortstops and work my way up and through guys like Bartrum's speed until I had won well more than a couple hundred .

Then every woman should do this so they can be the next world champ.

And if Kelly was serious about gambling, she wouldn't remain holed up in South Carolina or wherever she is. There is plenty of action out there for her. And with the WPBA being pretty much dead, she should probably strongly consider it.
 
Also as I said there is nothing in it for Kelly to take on a coin flip for the cash. Let's assume Chris is right and Kelly has ZERO chance playing even. Why she even consider it for a second in that situation?

Let's assume that it's a coin flip why would she consider betting her own or even her backer's money on a 50/50 proposition? Unless her backer was insistent the he or she wanted to just see the game I don't see why Kelly would need to go into a game like that.

I mean you know as well as I do that taking on matches where it's a coin flip is a good way to stay broke. If I were rich I'd back it just because I'd want to see if Kelly could do it because I think she can. But that's only my feeling on it having watched her play and having watched Chris play. But I would only do it if I could burn $10,000 and not feel it. Because I believe it's a coin flip.

I think it comes down to stats as well. The ladies simply make too many unforced errors under the heat. They play great and shot for shot can play as good as any man. But under pressure against someone that can fire back at them they don't have the seasoning to hold up. That's the real difference in my eyes.

As I have said before I'd love to take Kelly across the country playing $1000 dollar sets with a guarantee that we would play twice against every man, once on the first trip and once on the return trip. I predict that Kelly would lose a lot on the first trip through and on the second she would win a lot having gained a lot of seasoning.

Then again, it's all fantasy conjecture on a forum at this point.
 
Then every woman should do this so they can be the next world champ.

And if Kelly was serious about gambling, she wouldn't remain holed up in South Carolina or wherever she is. There is plenty of action out there for her. And with the WPBA being pretty much dead, she should probably strongly consider it.

Who said she was serious about gambling? I didn't say that. She is a professional pool player who is the #1 woman's player on the planet at the moment. She has invites to tournaments and tours around the world and doesn't need or want to depend on gambling to fund her life.

All I said is that she had a backer in South Carolina who did back her pretty good and from what I hear there weren't many or ANY shortstops or top players who wanted to make games that were ANYWHERE close to what the folks on AZB have put out there as to what they think she would need. You would have to talk to him or her to find out the details of all the games they tried to make, I am not at liberty to names names even if I remembered them all.
 
Also as I said there is nothing in it for Kelly to take on a coin flip for the cash. Let's assume Chris is right and Kelly has ZERO chance playing even. Why she even consider it for a second in that situation?

Let's assume that it's a coin flip why would she consider betting her own or even her backer's money on a 50/50 proposition? Unless her backer was insistent the he or she wanted to just see the game I don't see why Kelly would need to go into a game like that.

I mean you know as well as I do that taking on matches where it's a coin flip is a good way to stay broke. If I were rich I'd back it just because I'd want to see if Kelly could do it because I think she can. But that's only my feeling on it having watched her play and having watched Chris play. But I would only do it if I could burn $10,000 and not feel it. Because I believe it's a coin flip.

I think it comes down to stats as well. The ladies simply make too many unforced errors under the heat. They play great and shot for shot can play as good as any man. But under pressure against someone that can fire back at them they don't have the seasoning to hold up. That's the real difference in my eyes.

As I have said before I'd love to take Kelly across the country playing $1000 dollar sets with a guarantee that we would play twice against every man, once on the first trip and once on the return trip. I predict that Kelly would lose a lot on the first trip through and on the second she would win a lot having gained a lot of seasoning.

Then again, it's all fantasy conjecture on a forum at this point.
That's the same pipedream every decent amateur player has...that if I had the time and money to go on the road for a year, by the time i made my way back I could be pro speed! I can think of two or three guys who played my speed a couple of years ago, but now play better mainly because they went out and got seasoned on the road!
 
That's the same pipedream every decent amateur player has...that if I had the time and money to go on the road for a year, by the time i made my way back I could be pro speed! I can think of two or three guys who played my speed a couple of years ago, but now play better mainly because they went out and got seasoned on the road!

It isnt my dream. But I think every good player understands the value of getting seasoned.
 
You want to see a female play a male and make it marketable?

It's already happened! OMGWTF vs cubc!

And it was on TAR.
 
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