Difference in "Blue Diamond" and "Red Diamond" pro-am tables

M

maxeypad2007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I own a red diamond 7' pro am but lately I have been playing on 7' blue diamond pro am tables.

The blue diamond table seems to look the same but the rails play a lot shorter and the pocket cut seems a little different.

What are the exact differences in these tables?
 
Blue Labels

The short answer is that people were concerned that the red label rails would play a little short. ( Which you have probably noticed ) So the blue labels are a slight improvement that brings the table closer to "angle in... angle out". I'm sure someone like The Real King Cobra or Mark could explain in greater detail. But the simple version is the rails play better. :)
 
Oh yeah

And the degree on pocket was updated around the time of the blue introduction. But that change can be found on both red and blue. So I wouldn't attribute that new pocket cut to just the blue.
 
maxeypad2007 said:
I own a red diamond 7' pro am but lately I have been playing on 7' blue diamond pro am tables.

The blue diamond table seems to look the same but the rails play a lot shorter and the pocket cut seems a little different.

What are the exact differences in these tables?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that some material (1/16 inch?) was planed off the entire bottom of the rails thus lowering the cushion height by that amount. The cushion nose was then raised up by what was lost planing the rail by changing the angle of the face where the rubber glues on slightly. This resulted in the same nose height of the cushion but the rubber is turned to a slightly more skyward angle, thus changing how balls bounce in and out of it to a slightly wider deflection angle. That's the theory. Personally I find both versions to bank shorter than I'm used to and take some adjustments to play on. Its not like the red sucks and the blue plays natural. They both bank short. Particularly on a briskly hit ball.

JC
 
maxeypad2007 said:
I own a red diamond 7' pro am but lately I have been playing on 7' blue diamond pro am tables.

The blue diamond table seems to look the same but the rails play a lot shorter and the pocket cut seems a little different.

What are the exact differences in these tables?
Click to expand...

When new, the Blue label Diamond's play a little long to begin with then dial right in to bank great. but...once a table has been used for a while, and the cloth and balls are not kept clean, then no table will play the way the manufacture intended it to, so one needs to keep that in mind when judging pool tables as to how they play today.

Glen
 
JC - Pretty good explanation, but here's how Glenn (aka RealKingCobra) explained it in a PM to me last year. The biggest difference I want is the effect he describes at the end of his answer. I'm going to have this done to my 9' Pro Am.

Hi Dave,

The changes involve taking the cushions off the rails, reducing the thickness of the sub-rails from 1 3/4" to 1 11/16" first. What that does is lowers the back of the cushions by 1/16" of an inch. Then because that also lowers the nose height by 1/16", the bevel of the sub-rails have to be changed from 21 degrees to 24 degrees to pick back up the nose height to 1 7/16". What this change does is it aligns the body of the cushion up better behind the nose, so that when the balls come into contact with the cushions...they go in and out more accurately, and with a more controllable speed coming off the cushions with the cue ball. The change also softens the grazing contact with the cushions when balls are on the way to the pocket but just slightly touch a rail on the way in...meaning they don't come off and away from the cushions as much which is what causes a lot of the rejects in the corner pockets.
 
cigardave said:
JC - Pretty good explanation, but here's how Glenn (aka RealKingCobra) explained it in a PM to me last year. The biggest difference I want is the effect he describes at the end of his answer. I'm going to have this done to my 9' Pro Am.

Hi Dave,

The changes involve taking the cushions off the rails, reducing the thickness of the sub-rails from 1 3/4" to 1 11/16" first. What that does is lowers the back of the cushions by 1/16" of an inch. Then because that also lowers the nose height by 1/16", the bevel of the sub-rails have to be changed from 21 degrees to 24 degrees to pick back up the nose height to 1 7/16". What this change does is it aligns the body of the cushion up better behind the nose, so that when the balls come into contact with the cushions...they go in and out more accurately, and with a more controllable speed coming off the cushions with the cue ball. The change also softens the grazing contact with the cushions when balls are on the way to the pocket but just slightly touch a rail on the way in...meaning they don't come off and away from the cushions as much which is what causes a lot of the rejects in the corner pockets.
Click to expand...

That sounds good if it really works that way. I'm skeptical that the cue ball reacts differently grazing the nose of the cushion with the 3 degree change in angle unless you're really firing the ball and miss badly in which case you pretty much deserve to miss anyway.

JC
 
JC said:
That sounds good if it really works that way. I'm skeptical that the cue ball reacts differently grazing the nose of the cushion with the 3 degree change in angle unless you're really firing the ball and miss badly in which case you pretty much deserve to miss anyway.

JC
Click to expand...

It does, but I'm a little curious, how long have you been working on pool tables?
 
What's the approximate cost of the adjustment? I like the way my red plays, but it does bank short, and really short on a double.

:cool:
 
realkingcobra said:
It does, but I'm a little curious, how long have you been working on pool tables?
Click to expand...

Since 1995 which is not relevant to my observation.

It probably has to do with the definition of "grazing" the rail. A subjective term. Of course if the rubber is compressed there could be a difference, but does a "grazing" shot compress the rubber? Where does cloth condition and tension fit in?
 
JC said:
That sounds good if it really works that way. I'm skeptical that the cue ball reacts differently grazing the nose of the cushion with the 3 degree change in angle unless you're really firing the ball and miss badly in which case you pretty much deserve to miss anyway.

JC
Click to expand...
JC - I watched the Efren/Shane 10-ball match last night on TAR's PPV and I can tell you with certainty that the 3 degree angle difference on the nose (the TAR table has the modified rails is what I was told) makes a bid difference when playing the corner pockets and with the object ball near the long rails.

There were shots falling last night on the TAR table that my table (same Pro Am but with un-modified rails) would spit out... and no, Efren and Shane weren't firing the ball and missing badly last night.

At shallow angles, I saw a couple of shots where the OB grazed the long rail about a diamond above the pocket yet still went in.

No way the same shots go on my table. They just don't.

You can come over and see for yourself if you'd like. I live in Marysville.
 
cigardave said:
JC - I watched the Efren/Shane 10-ball match last night on TAR's PPV and I can tell you with certainty that the 3 degree angle difference on the nose (the TAR table has the modified rails is what I was told) makes a bid difference when playing the corner pockets and with the object ball near the long rails.

There were shots falling last night on the TAR table that my table (same Pro Am but with un-modified rails) would spit out... and no, Efren and Shane weren't firing the ball and missing badly last night.

At shallow angles, I saw a couple of shots where the OB grazed the long rail about a diamond above the pocket yet still went in.

No way the same shots go on my table. They just don't.

You can come over and see for yourself if you'd like. I live in Marysville.
Click to expand...

New cloth/old cloth. The pocket facing is where it's happening at.

JC
 
JC said:
New cloth/old cloth. The pocket facing is where it's happening at.

JC
Click to expand...
It happened when my cloth was brand new.

It happens now that my cloth is 5 years old.

I don't believe that it's happening at the pocket facing.

I believe that it's happening at the long rail cushion's nose... the cushions are "boingy", if that's even a word. The object ball rebounds at a greater angle than they should for the small amount of grazing contact. That causes them to rattle out of the corner pockets.

It would be enlightening to view high speed footage of what is happening.
 
cigardave said:
It happened when my cloth was brand new.

It happens now that my cloth is 5 years old.

I don't believe that it's happening at the pocket facing.

I believe that it's happening at the long rail cushion's nose... the cushions are "boingy", if that's even a word. The object ball rebounds at a greater angle than they should for the small amount of grazing contact. That causes them to rattle out of the corner pockets.

It would be enlightening to view high speed footage of what is happening.
Click to expand...

Ask and you shall receive.

I'll post some high speed videos of exactly this. I have the Red label Diamond Pro (purchased in 2005), and I know exactly what you're talking about.

I've already shot some high speed videos of this, because I wanted to know how in the hell I miss so many balls. Yes, I know I didn't hit them perfectly, but that same degree of "miss" drops the ball into the pocket on 99% of all other tables I play on.

I watch all the TAR matches, and I also see a lot of balls go in that would have no chance on my table. My table plays so tough that sometimes I shark myself by playing scared. :)

I'm on the waiting list for Glen to upgrade my rails when he gets a chance...

-Blake
 
SloMoHolic said:
Ask and you shall receive.

I'll post some high speed videos of exactly this. I have the Red label Diamond Pro (purchased in 2005), and I know exactly what you're talking about.

I've already shot some high speed videos of this, because I wanted to know how in the hell I miss so many balls. Yes, I know I didn't hit them perfectly, but that same degree of "miss" drops the ball into the pocket on 99% of all other tables I play on.

I watch all the TAR matches, and I also see a lot of balls go in that would have no chance on my table. My table plays so tough that sometimes I shark myself by playing scared. :)

I'm on the waiting list for Glen to upgrade my rails when he gets a chance...

-Blake
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot, brother.

Glen will be modifying mine in about 4-6 weeks.
 
JC said:
New cloth/old cloth. The pocket facing is where it's happening at.

JC
Click to expand...

With Diamonds older designed rails, when a ball grazes the rail on the way into a pocket, it pickes up more than usuall spin off the rail, spin that is spinning in the opposite direction to fall, meaning the ball is trying to spin out of the pocket when the ball comes into contact with fhe pocket facing. With the newer rail design, the when the object ball grazes the rail on tbe way to the pocket, the spin transfer is more of a top spin/follow english which allows the ball to drop more naturally with pocket speed...deeper into the back of the pocket, meaming less pocket rejection.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top