Pathetic Shark
Banned
I meant choose your path and stick to it.
Pendulum Stroke - Elbow Drop
- Thread starter Counterspell
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I meant choose your path and stick to it.
Pathetic Shark
Banned
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for 99% of players bad mechanics is that limit
I still think that quality mechanics is an achievable goal for anyone willing to put in the work..
just banging balls around for years will never get you anywhere..
what I meant in my other post was that there are at least 3 and perhaps as many as 5 valid schools of thought as it relates to billiard mechanics.
a player needs to pick one and only one and devote themselves to it..
that is the only way to make any real progress
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Just wondering, what are the 3-5 schools of thought you are referring to? I might learn something here.
the 3 primary schools of thought would be
1. the classic pendulum and it's derivatives
2. the classic piston and it's derivatives
3. the old school 3 point snooker style
and we could also add
4. the new school modified snooker
5. hybrids of more than 1 of the above such as the J stroke
Pathetic Shark
Banned
Given how many bizarre strokes I see posted on here, I'd say there are many more.
In my youth, thousands and thousands of kids caught the snooker craze and received 6x3 snooker tables as Xmas presents. Very few of these will have had any instruction at all, yet I see thousand upon thousand of adult players, all with flawless cue actions today.
There is one, natural cue action, which develops organically if there is no outside interference. The plethora of inelegant cue actions that exist today are imposed and taught. Put simply, the problems Americans undoubtedly have with cuing are cultural.
I agree.
You call it 'organic'. I call it natural. IMHO people without outside influences or interference will gravitate to what is natural. The center of the cue stick is a linear line & we are hitting the ball with the END of it & not on the side of it like in baseball, tennis, golf etc.
Regards,
I've been obsessed with fixing elbow drop for years. I stroke with the cue touching my chin. The way I fixed my elbow drop problem was making sure the cue slid along my chin and never left contact with it even after the cue ball is hit. If you do this, it will feel like your elbow is droping a little bit after contact, but when you video tape it it really doesn't move all that much. It also gives me something to focus on under pressure which helps me. I also know that the cue is going in a stright line.
This works for me MUCH MUCH better then actually focusing on my actual elbow as a point in space. I think this is much closer to the right direction. I just have to remember to wipe the chalk marks off of my chin before I go home
I don't think anybody will disagree with this since it makes a lot of sense.
I've been obsessed with fixing elbow drop for years. I stroke with the cue touching my chin. The way I fixed my elbow drop problem was making sure the cue slid along my chin and never left contact with it even after the cue ball is hit. If you do this, it will feel like your elbow is droping a little bit after contact, but when you video tape it it really doesn't move all that much. It also gives me something to focus on under pressure which helps me. I also know that the cue is going in a stright line.
This works for me MUCH MUCH better then actually focusing on my actual elbow as a point in space. I think this is much closer to the right direction. I just have to remember to wipe the chalk marks off of my chin before I go home
I don't think anybody will disagree with this since it makes a lot of sense.
Doesn't all that rubbing burn your chin?
If you look at the mechanics (see my articles probably referenced above about elbows) keeping the stick on the chin produces a piston rather than a pendulum stroke. If you can master a piston stroke like this, I think it is the most precise way to control the cue stick. I'm not flexible enough right now to keep my cue against my chin.I've been obsessed with fixing elbow drop for years. I stroke with the cue touching my chin. The way I fixed my elbow drop problem was making sure the cue slid along my chin and never left contact with it even after the cue ball is hit. If you do this, it will feel like your elbow is droping a little bit after contact, but when you video tape it it really doesn't move all that much. It also gives me something to focus on under pressure which helps me. I also know that the cue is going in a stright line.
This works for me MUCH MUCH better then actually focusing on my actual elbow as a point in space. I think this is much closer to the right direction. I just have to remember to wipe the chalk marks off of my chin before I go home
I don't think anybody will disagree with this since it makes a lot of sense.
It is strange Bob. I feel that a pendulum stroke is the simpliest stroke, yet I've tried and tried to get it and failed. My brain just hates it for some reason, and it needs that chin anchor point as a reference lol
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nrhoades...You just haven't had the right person teach it to you...yet. There is no strategic advantage of piston over pendulum, and you're right that pendulum is simpler (and easier, imo, to accurately repeat), with less moving parts. Like Bob said, if someone can master the timing required for a repeatable piston stroke...fine. IMO, pendulum is still the way to go. The next time I get up to RI, I'd love to show you the pendulum stroke as we teach it...and I have taught it successfully to MANY 'chin on the cue' players. 
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
nrhoades...You just haven't had the right person teach it to you...yet. There is no strategic advantage of piston over pendulum, and you're right that pendulum is simpler (and easier, imo, to accurately repeat), with less moving parts. Like Bob said, if someone can master the timing required for a repeatable piston stroke...fine. IMO, pendulum is still the way to go. The next time I get up to RI, I'd love to show you the pendulum stroke as we teach it...and I have taught it successfully to MANY 'chin on the cue' players.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Sure Scott, let me know!
Sometimes people tend to tighten the shoulder joint to keep the upper arm still. Doing that can also very easily cause you to also tighten the elbow joint without realizing it. The trick is to keep the elbow joint loose. If your elbow drops a little bit, no big deal. If it drops after contact with the cb, it really has zero affect on the shot. Even dropping just a few inches is better than completely dropping it on a shot.
Don't worry so much about the elbow, as the reasoning behind it. The more people drop their elbow, the more they tend to need to have to steer the cue to get it to go down the correct line. The idea is to have a stroke that keeps the cue on line to start with.
Hahaa. Against everything I said, I just had huge success with using the pendulum stroke today. I think ill stop posting for a while until I let all of this new knowledge settle, and ill see what wins out in the end. Ill post a video in a month or two. This is all very good, though, for either type of stroke.
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pleforowicz
Registered
Yes sir, post some vids. I will gladly see you shooting. Maybe I will learn something.
Best regards.
Best regards.
Fran, you and Bob seem to agree on this topic, at least in theory.
As an example, Jasmin Ouschan keeps her chin real low and begins to drop her elbow before the tip contacts the ball on the majority of her shots. She has a real smooth piston stroke IMHO, and the results - both in shot making and CB control - are very enviable. Long bridge, long follow through, excellent speed control. If she steers the stroke doing this, she steers it real good because she doesn't miss much.
Personally, I think a piston type stroke results in a better & more repeatable contact with the cue ball & makes maintaining control of the cue ball better as the tip is moving straight through the contact with the cue ball & is not arcing up or down as it does in a true 'pendulum' stroke. The straight line movement makes it easier to hit the cue ball more exactly where one intends than with the tip arcing down, up, & down again as with the pendulum stroke. It also allows one to use many different set ups that are often required especially when playing on the larger tables instead of the perfect set up that is required by a true pendulum stroke.
JMHO & I am not certified as an instructor.
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I've taken several lessons from Scott Lee and Stevie Moore. Both believe in the same basic principles of a stroke, I.e., SPF (set, pause, finish). I believe I over focused on concern about elbow drop for some time but found that focusing on the shoulder not dropping was the best way to avoid a "harmful" elbow drop.
I can say that Stevie Moore focused more on some grip and alignment modifications to help me achieve a perfectly straight stroke and to hit the cb at the point your aiming at. I've watched Stevie stroke a lot of shots and he has a very slight elbow drop. It clearly happens after CB contact.
My present thinking is to not get get caught up in elbow drop so much and focus on hitting the CB where I'm aiming with a straight stroke. Stevie and Scott both use a drill with the white round paper hole reinforcers, set up in a straight line for a straight in shot to the pocket, that I use to practice. By holding your shot after the hit, I can look down the shaft and see if I hit CCB and if my shaft is perfectly down the line. Add hitting stop shots with that drill and you get the feedback you need. Funny thing, if the cue shaft is dead centered, perfectly aligned and the CB stops perfectly, OB seems to always go in center pocket.
I'm not going to begin to argue there aren't other valid systems, I suspect there are. I will argue what Scott, Randy and Stevie teach is absolutely a valid system that works. YMMV.
I can say that Stevie Moore focused more on some grip and alignment modifications to help me achieve a perfectly straight stroke and to hit the cb at the point your aiming at. I've watched Stevie stroke a lot of shots and he has a very slight elbow drop. It clearly happens after CB contact.
My present thinking is to not get get caught up in elbow drop so much and focus on hitting the CB where I'm aiming with a straight stroke. Stevie and Scott both use a drill with the white round paper hole reinforcers, set up in a straight line for a straight in shot to the pocket, that I use to practice. By holding your shot after the hit, I can look down the shaft and see if I hit CCB and if my shaft is perfectly down the line. Add hitting stop shots with that drill and you get the feedback you need. Funny thing, if the cue shaft is dead centered, perfectly aligned and the CB stops perfectly, OB seems to always go in center pocket.
I'm not going to begin to argue there aren't other valid systems, I suspect there are. I will argue what Scott, Randy and Stevie teach is absolutely a valid system that works. YMMV.