hd video camera

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mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
For those that record straight pool runs, etc. What camera do you use? Recommendations? Budget minded cameras that work well?

Right now I'm mounting my iPhone 4S on a tripod. It records 1080p video and does a fine job, but is limited in filesystem space and can be interrupted by calls. Surprisingly I cannot find an app that lets me stream the video to a PC. [edit] found one called AirBeam, but it's certainly not 1080p or 30fps streamed.
 
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I've always had good luck using this one.
It's a tad bulky, but once you get it into the poolroom and properly set up, taping your sessions are a breeze. :smile:
 

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mohrt said:
For those that record straight pool runs, etc. What camera do you use? Recommendations? Budget minded cameras that work well?

Right now I'm mounting my iPhone 4S on a tripod. It records 1080p video and does a fine job, but is limited in filesystem space and can be interrupted by calls. Surprisingly I cannot find an app that lets me stream the video to a PC.
Click to expand...

Whatever you decide on make sure it has a remote control. This may take you out of entry level pricing but it's worth it. I can set my camcorder up high, out of the way and plugged in to the AC adaptor and never touch it again for weeks if I want to. It will time out and go to sleep after a while of no use and you come back the next day/week and just hit the record on the remote and it picks up right where you left off. Plus each time you toggle the record button off and on a new seperate file is created which makes review ultra convenient. You can record each rack as a new file or each run or whatever you want. Flash memory is getting real cheap so recording capacity shouldn't be an issue.

That's my criteria suggestions. Many camera's fit the bill. Almost any one made today will have sufficient picture quality for filming pool.

JC
 
I have a canon hg10 if your interested. Look up canon hg10 on YouTube it does a great job with low light.

Sent from my PantechP4100 using Tapatalk 2
 
JC said:
Whatever you decide on make sure it has a remote control. This may take you out of entry level pricing but it's worth it. I can set my camcorder up high, out of the way and plugged in to the AC adaptor and never touch it again for weeks if I want to. It will time out and go to sleep after a while of no use and you come back the next day/week and just hit the record on the remote and it picks up right where you left off. Plus each time you toggle the record button off and on a new seperate file is created which makes review ultra convenient. You can record each rack as a new file or each run or whatever you want. Flash memory is getting real cheap so recording capacity shouldn't be an issue.

That's my criteria suggestions. Many camera's fit the bill. Almost any one made today will have sufficient picture quality for filming pool.

JC
Click to expand...

What camera do you have?
 
mohrt said:
What camera do you have?
Click to expand...

I have a Panasonic HDC TM900. I paid about $450 for it as I recall about a year ago. It has a 32 gig built in flash memory and also a SD slot where I have another 16 gig card. I think the total record time is about hours on a high setting just for the internal memory. It's pretty small and works well on a little table top tripod sitting on a shelf. Prior to that I had a canon hv30 which used mini dv tapes. For some reason that camera still has a cult following and I was able to sell it for almost what I paid for it 3 years before and buy what I have now. Tapes are a big hassle and yesterdays news. I cannot imagine the logic of wanting a camera like that now days but I guess some "purist" types still see the merit. I find the HD quality of the Panasonic I have now to be equal to my old Canon. Plug it in to my 50 inch plasma with a DV cable and it's out of this world clear. Upload to you tube and they re render it so you can't really tell how good the original video was.

JC
 
CreeDo said:
btw mohrt we miss your eight ball layouts. Carry on.
Click to expand...

you might see it in action if I get this camera going :D but yeah I got busy then just haven't been taking the time to do them. I moved on to practicing straight pool for the most part.
 
When recording long periods of action, you have to downgrade to 640/480 to keep the file size under control.
 
What is your budget, and what is the lighting situation? Can you add more lights, say 2000-4000 watts or more? Lighting will bring out the best in any camera. Here are some setups I've tried in the past.

<$200
Kodak zi8, or current Kodak playsport model
remote, tripod, and USB battery packs.

Here is some footage in 1080p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeJkKtpej9Y


<$600
Canon Vixia M400 and up
If you want video stream (ustream.tv) then opt for the firewire HV20,30,40 series

<$1500
Canon G10, or current model such as
 
I guess the "cult following" the Canon hv30 has is from folks who want to use it for streaming since it has firewire and never intend to buy or use any mini dv tapes.

JC
 
I picked up a canon hf r30 for $160, about half the going price. Giving it a go, will report back!
 
mohrt said:
I picked up a canon hf r30 for $160, about half the going price. Giving it a go, will report back!
Click to expand...

First impressions: camera gets a bit grainy under low-light conditions. Not nearly as clear/crisp as my iPhone 4S at 1080p. I have a 720p flip that is far better as well. I have a feeling all of the entry-level camcorders (<$300) are going to be this way. Maybe a GoPro is the way to go?
 
Below are my thoughts from a video newbie, but I became obsessed with this and spent lots and lots of time learning all I could...

Well, I've been fooling around with this for the past 6 months or so. I'm on my 3rd camcorder. 1st was SD tape based, second was HD tape based, and the one I just got now is HD Card based.

I got the Panasonic HC-V720.

A few things I discovered, for me. Forget about the high quality settings. I want a camera that works good at the low quality, so the file size is manageable, and no further processing is required to share to youtube.

This camera on its worst quality setting records at 1920x1080, 60i frames, and a bit rate of 4Mbps. The highest setting is 1920x1080, 60p frames, 28Mbps. There are 3 settings in between. When I record pool and hook the camera up to my 55" tv via HDMI cable, the highest setting looks just "slightly" better than the worst setting. In other words, the lowest file size setting is well above and beyond what is good, imo. In fact, I wish the camera had an even lower setting of maybe between 1 and 2 Mbps.

Now, at this lowest quality setting, I can take the video file off the card, and upload it right to Youtube. When I was using the tape based camcorders, I'd have to import the footage into iMovie (I was actually recording it live to my hard drive, but that is irrelevant here), and then encode those files into something smaller to share to youtube, because they were HUGE (like 30 GB for 1 hr). It took over night to encode in 1080 size. Now with the new camera, that already encodes at that format, I skip these huge time consuming steps.

This particular camera has no remote control, but you can control it from iOS device, and that works pretty well as a remote control.

Problems I'm having:
1. Viewing recorded footage:
I have to physically take the camera off the wall and hook it up to my plasma tv with an HDMI cable. This is of course a pain.
2. I can remove the card and put it in my laptop slot, and then save the video files to the computer hard drive. Then I can play the videos on my computer, or upload to youtube. This still requires a trip up the ladder, to remove the card.
3. I can hook up a long USB cable between the camcorder and the laptop, and copy the files off the card to the computer that way. I STILL have to take a trip up the ladder to touch the camera's touch screen in this method, or the files won't copy over, and I can't use the iOS remote function to complete this step.

The files themselves are in AVCHD format, which is a bit cryptic to find on the card (at least on a Mac, don't know about the PC side).

This was one thing I really liked about the tape based camcorders (which means they use Firewire). There were zero trips up and down the ladder, because the firewire cable recorded whatever was live on the camera directly to the computers hard drive. This had its own set of problems, but it definitely eliminated trips up the ladder.

So now, what I'm looking at is an HDMI capture card. This would hook the HDMI output of the camera directly to my laptop's hard drive. The capture card bypasses the cameras compression mechanism, and sends completely uncompressed video to the computer (like 300 GB per hr). But there is software available that will compress that just like the internal camera chip does on the fly. And I think that will have any data rate of compression you desire.

So thats my next step, that will enable the camera to be controlled by the computer, and files to be saved to the computer on the fly, eliminating all ladder trips, and encoding the file in a format and bit rate that I deem good for personal archiving on hard drive, and also good enough for youtupe without re-encoding.

I'm about to order the "Blackmagic Design UltraStudio Mini Recorder Capture Device". If this works, its $140, and will work with any camcorder with HDMI out, which is almost all of them made in the last 5 years. It also comes with the software I was talking abut earlier.

The downside to this method, is I might have to upgrade my entire computer and hard drive system to be workable. So I'm not sure I will do it. As I currently have an old computer dedicated just to the pool recordings. This capture card method won't work with that computer. It will work with my everyday computer, but then I don't want to tie that guy up to the camera...

So those have been some of my experiences, and I'm certain won't be my last, lol
 
mohrt said:
For those that record straight pool runs, etc. What camera do you use? Recommendations? Budget minded cameras that work well?

Right now I'm mounting my iPhone 4S on a tripod. It records 1080p video and does a fine job, but is limited in filesystem space and can be interrupted by calls. Surprisingly I cannot find an app that lets me stream the video to a PC. [edit] found one called AirBeam, but it's certainly not 1080p or 30fps streamed.
Click to expand...

You can get a pretty cheap (relatively) wifi webcam. http://reviews.cnet.com/webcams/dropcam-hd-wi-fi/4505-6502_7-35529762.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1KT0P88228

That will be able to be streamed to the computer for recording.
 
hang-the-9 said:
You can get a pretty cheap (relatively) wifi webcam. http://reviews.cnet.com/webcams/dropcam-hd-wi-fi/4505-6502_7-35529762.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1KT0P88228

That will be able to be streamed to the computer for recording.
Click to expand...

Most of those are going to be worse quality video than even the entry level camcorders. Both of these are 720p. Anything I've tried to stream suffers in quality. Not saying it's impossible, but I haven't seen anything great. It might depend on your expectations too.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Below are my thoughts from a video newbie, but I became obsessed with this and spent lots and lots of time learning all I could...

Well, I've been fooling around with this for the past 6 months or so. I'm on my 3rd camcorder. 1st was SD tape based, second was HD tape based, and the one I just got now is HD Card based.

I got the Panasonic HC-V720.

A few things I discovered, for me. Forget about the high quality settings. I want a camera that works good at the low quality, so the file size is manageable, and no further processing is required to share to youtube.

This camera on its worst quality setting records at 1920x1080, 60i frames, and a bit rate of 4Mbps. The highest setting is 1920x1080, 60p frames, 28Mbps. There are 3 settings in between. When I record pool and hook the camera up to my 55" tv via HDMI cable, the highest setting looks just "slightly" better than the worst setting. In other words, the lowest file size setting is well above and beyond what is good, imo. In fact, I wish the camera had an even lower setting of maybe between 1 and 2 Mbps.

Now, at this lowest quality setting, I can take the video file off the card, and upload it right to Youtube. When I was using the tape based camcorders, I'd have to import the footage into iMovie (I was actually recording it live to my hard drive, but that is irrelevant here), and then encode those files into something smaller to share to youtube, because they were HUGE (like 30 GB for 1 hr). It took over night to encode in 1080 size. Now with the new camera, that already encodes at that format, I skip these huge time consuming steps.

This particular camera has no remote control, but you can control it from iOS device, and that works pretty well as a remote control.

Problems I'm having:
1. Viewing recorded footage:
I have to physically take the camera off the wall and hook it up to my plasma tv with an HDMI cable. This is of course a pain.
2. I can remove the card and put it in my laptop slot, and then save the video files to the computer hard drive. Then I can play the videos on my computer, or upload to youtube. This still requires a trip up the ladder, to remove the card.
3. I can hook up a long USB cable between the camcorder and the laptop, and copy the files off the card to the computer that way. I STILL have to take a trip up the ladder to touch the camera's touch screen in this method, or the files won't copy over, and I can't use the iOS remote function to complete this step.

The files themselves are in AVCHD format, which is a bit cryptic to find on the card (at least on a Mac, don't know about the PC side).

This was one thing I really liked about the tape based camcorders (which means they use Firewire). There were zero trips up and down the ladder, because the firewire cable recorded whatever was live on the camera directly to the computers hard drive. This had its own set of problems, but it definitely eliminated trips up the ladder.

So now, what I'm looking at is an HDMI capture card. This would hook the HDMI output of the camera directly to my laptop's hard drive. The capture card bypasses the cameras compression mechanism, and sends completely uncompressed video to the computer (like 300 GB per hr). But there is software available that will compress that just like the internal camera chip does on the fly. And I think that will have any data rate of compression you desire.

So thats my next step, that will enable the camera to be controlled by the computer, and files to be saved to the computer on the fly, eliminating all ladder trips, and encoding the file in a format and bit rate that I deem good for personal archiving on hard drive, and also good enough for youtupe without re-encoding.

I'm about to order the "Blackmagic Design UltraStudio Mini Recorder Capture Device". If this works, its $140, and will work with any camcorder with HDMI out, which is almost all of them made in the last 5 years. It also comes with the software I was talking abut earlier.

The downside to this method, is I might have to upgrade my entire computer and hard drive system to be workable. So I'm not sure I will do it. As I currently have an old computer dedicated just to the pool recordings. This capture card method won't work with that computer. It will work with my everyday computer, but then I don't want to tie that guy up to the camera...

So those have been some of my experiences, and I'm certain won't be my last, lol
Click to expand...

Great post! What I'm finding this this:

For cameras in the $200-$500 or range, you are looking at decent video but not film-quality crisp clear 1080p footage like you find in the higher dollar camcorders. Especially low-light, a lot of them start to get noisy. For many that are just posting vids to youtube, these are probably adequate.

For cameras in the $500-$2500 range, at that point I'd rather sink my money into a DSLR camera with HD video. Something like the Canon Rebel T3i has phenomenal sensors and optics, so it makes sense it would also have superior video quality. DSLR does have some drawbacks: there is little to no autofocus or image stabilization. However, those two items are not important for recording pool games.

So if you want top-notch video (practically film-making quality) AND the utility of a DSLR camera for taking professional quality photos, you may as well go with a DSLR camera which start around $550 these days. On the other hand if you want a video recorder that is also useful for home videos (autofocus/stabilization important) then the route of a camcorder would be a more fitting choice.

I'm also finding that a lot of point-and-shoot cameras have quite decent HD video capabilities. I haven't dug too deep yet, but good ones with crisp video and low-light capability seem to be in that same $400+ price range.

This is all assuming you are recording to an SD card. For streaming, that is a whole different story. I have yet to find anything that will stream film 1080p without a lot of effort.
 
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The camera I got streams on your LAN to an iOS device. I have my iPad with a cracked screen dedicated to it. The streaming works very well. Very high quality. Thats actually why I picked this Panasonic. The only thing is for analyzing stroke and such, you can't advance a frame or even a second at at time like you could from a hard drive. And I wish I could stream it to my computer with the bigger screen, but it only works on iOS using a free app. But the quality is such on the iPad that the numbers on the balls are readable, and there is no jerkiness whatsoever.

Also regarding quality, the optics of the lens and the size of the sensor chip behind the lens that captures the light is actually where the quality originates. That to my understanding is actually why the Canon HV20, 30, 40 have the cult followings. You can get a used cheap one, and they have very good lenses and sensors. And if you use the HDMI out and a capture card, you bypass their tape mechanism. I got the HV20 for 130 used a few months ago from ebay. Their original retail a few years ago was close to 1000. You have to spend at least 500 on a new camera to get one with the same ballpark lens and sensor (from what I found).

The Panasonic I pointed to earlier also has very good optics and an even bigger sensor chip behind the lens to capture the light. That's what you pay for when you go up from the retail price of 200 to 500. The quality of the lens and the size of the sensor chip. These are big deals in low light, which is any indoor shot on a pool table.
 
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