Don't counter lucky play with safeties!

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
Since everyone ignored my last post in "Lucking out" thread, I have to repost it separately...

When they play opponents who shoot hard and try to luck balls in as much as possible, a lot of players counters with safeties and teaches others to do the same. Not only this advice is wrong, but it's also dangerous for development of future players... When playing against a usually weaker opponent who often tries to luck balls in by shooting hard, playing safeties is a common mistake people tend to make. Being a profound and experienced banger myself, I can assure you I'm very glad when I have to play a highly skilled player who spends most of his shots playing safe and trying to lock me up, especially when he sees I'm not the greatest shooter of all time. I blitz the defense he made with a few well positioned full-powered shots and before you know it I'm on the black. Then he tries to respond, shoots some difficult ball and misses, giving me a fairly easy win, knowing he'd most likely destroy me if he played smart.

Bangers who rely on slop shots will usually try to persuade you to play some bar rules version which has no punishment for that type of play. Decline if you can, but many times you won't get that option. And if you're a skilled tournament player, you don't even need to worry about the ruleset. Just play aggressively from the start. Don't even thnk about safeties, play simple position, or even sacrifice position play on certain shots and shoot one ball at a time. It's a much better solution than pulling back and defending. Just keep dropping balls, and if you miss, you'll actually want to leave a potentially easy shot for the opponent. If he tries to carefully aim and shoot at something pocketable, there's a larger chance he'll miss and leave himself open than if he decides to blast away. Think of the opponent as of a large piece of artillery. It's big, clumsy and innaccurate, so as long as you're on the move, it will have a hard time shooting you, but if you stop and try to build a large bunker instead, it'll rip you apart like a damn pinata. If you move forward, keep up the pressure and go for the 8 ball first, you'll be on the winning side 95% of time.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Since everyone ignored my last post in "Lucking out" thread, I have to repost it separately...

When they play opponents who shoot hard and try to luck balls in as much as possible, a lot of players counters with safeties and teaches others to do the same. Not only this advice is wrong, but it's also dangerous for development of future players... When playing against a usually weaker opponent who often tries to luck balls in by shooting hard, playing safeties is a common mistake people tend to make. Being a profound and experienced banger myself, I can assure you I'm very glad when I have to play a highly skilled player who spends most of his shots playing safe and trying to lock me up, especially when he sees I'm not the greatest shooter of all time. I blitz the defense he made with a few well positioned full-powered shots and before you know it I'm on the black. Then he tries to respond, shoots some difficult ball and misses, giving me a fairly easy win, knowing he'd most likely destroy me if he played smart.

Bangers who rely on slop shots will usually try to persuade you to play some bar rules version which has no punishment for that type of play. Decline if you can, but many times you won't get that option. And if you're a skilled tournament player, you don't even need to worry about the ruleset. Just play aggressively from the start. Don't even thnk about safeties, play simple position, or even sacrifice position play on certain shots and shoot one ball at a time. It's a much better solution than pulling back and defending. Just keep dropping balls, and if you miss, you'll actually want to leave a potentially easy shot for the opponent. If he tries to carefully aim and shoot at something pocketable, there's a larger chance he'll miss and leave himself open than if he decides to blast away. Think of the opponent as of a large piece of artillery. It's big, clumsy and innaccurate, so as long as you're on the move, it will have a hard time shooting you, but if you stop and try to build a large bunker instead, it'll rip you apart like a damn pinata. If you move forward, keep up the pressure and go for the 8 ball first, you'll be on the winning side 95% of time.

Brilliant Post! In fact, it's so brilliant and ground-breaking that I don't think the human race is ready for this, this type of far thinking ideas are better suited for the advanced civilizations present in the Andromeda Galaxy. My advice would be for you to head there as the human race it not quite ready to grasp your concepts. Feel free to come back in 3-400 years when we've advanced enough to understand you.

If I were you, I'd feel glad that people just ignore your posts, when we don't, you get 40 people telling you that you're an idiot, then you complain about it.
 

Atlatlien

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd be so afraid to play you. You would intimidate me so much with your well positioned full power shots that I just wouldn't know what to do with myself.
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I play a lot of bangers and this has not been my experience. You just have to be sure that the safety leaves them with a kick shot or a super-thin shot.
 

jrt30004

just jokin' around
Silver Member
you keep thinking your way and i'll keep 3 fouling guys like you. i love nothing morre than watching a banger slam his cue on the rail when he loses and i haven't made a ball yet. :thumbup:
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
if you miss, you'll actually want to leave a potentially easy shot for the opponent. If he tries to carefully aim and shoot at something pocketable, there's a larger chance he'll miss and leave himself open than if he decides to blast away.

If I'm playing someone who misses easy wide open shots, there's no need for special strategy...
that'd be what they call a fish. :)

I suspect your idea of a 'defensive exchange' is:

• Player A is a scrub who can't hide the cue ball from an object ball on purpose, so he rolls it to somewhere far away
or rolls it gently on top of a ball. No foul is called because it's bar rules. Or he tries an actual safe (where the opponent is hooked) but he fails.

• Player B takes a wild ass warp speed stab in the general direction of some balls, and slops one in.
He keeps shooting because it's bar rules where slop counts.

• (optional) Player B gloats about how his superior firepower shredded the opponent's carefully crafted defense.

----

This doesn't have much in common with what happens when two serious and skilled players
are shooting with real (WSR or similar) rules.

An actual defensive exchange:

• Player A plays a lockup safety.
Player B doesn't have a direct shot on any of his legal targets and is nearly frozen to a ball he can't touch without fouling.

• Because the safety was strong, player B is forced to kick, possibly with 2 rails or with spin.
Player B kicks hard, misses, then hits an illegal ball shortly after. This is a foul.

• Player A takes ball in hand and runs the rest of the rack.
 

Banks

Banned
hesmrmackeymmkay.jpg

Mmkay?
 

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
A low rank player will not be good at kicking 2-3 rails... OP's advice is ridiculous

#1 They won't be good at kicking 2-3 rail while aiming, but if they just direct their cue in the general position for shooting the OB and blast away full power, there's a big chance they'll drop something... After that, the CB may stop on a position easy enough to allow them to pocket a few more balls.

#2 If you're playing a low-to-mid-skilled banger, you don't have to worry about him locking you up (at least not intentionally), so there's not much risk in playing aggressively. I don't see how this advice is ridiculous, it can only be more or less helpful depending on the situation, but I see no way it could hurt your game against bangers. Why so many arrogant replies from everyone?
 

krupa

The Dream Operator
Silver Member
#1 They won't be good at kicking 2-3 rail while aiming, but if they just direct their cue in the general position for shooting the OB and blast away full power, there's a big chance they'll drop something... After that, the CB may stop on a position easy enough to allow them to pocket a few more balls.
#2 If you're playing a low-to-mid-skilled banger, you don't have to worry about him locking you up (at least not intentionally), so there's not much risk in playing aggressively. I don't see how this advice is ridiculous, it can only be more or less helpful depending on the situation, but I see no way it could hurt your game against bangers. Why so many arrogant replies from everyone?

I was on vacation for a while and not reading the forums. It's nice to see that some things haven't changed.

The arrogant replies are solely due to your continued insistence that "full power with zero aiming" shots are a useful strategy.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
#1 They won't be good at kicking 2-3 rail while aiming, but if they just direct their cue in the general position for shooting the OB and blast away full power, there's a big chance they'll drop something... After that, the CB may stop on a position easy enough to allow them to pocket a few more balls.

#2 If you're playing a low-to-mid-skilled banger, you don't have to worry about him locking you up (at least not intentionally), so there's not much risk in playing aggressively. I don't see how this advice is ridiculous, it can only be more or less helpful depending on the situation, but I see no way it could hurt your game against bangers. Why so many arrogant replies from everyone?

I would think that by now you know exactly why you get the replies you do. If you have not figured it out "it's because your view on how to play are silly unless you are dealing with players who are really bad". Since this forum is not for players who are bad and want to remain that way, you may as well find a forum that does have those types of player where your ideas of random shots may make sense to some.

As far as a "big chance" of something dropping if you just hit randomly, I would say nope. Go to a basketball court and start throwing the ball towards the general direction of the basket with your eyes closed, report how many you get in in how many shots. That would be about the same % a crappy player would get of making a kick at a ball and actually pocketing something legally.
 
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BryanBpool

M.T.F.B.
Silver Member
Ill take my chances with safeties, thanks.

If I get ball in hand on an open table, I'm out.

Perhaps your idea of "high skilled player" is a bit misguided.
 
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