Corey Deuel is the new U.S. National Snooker Champion.

Pathetic Shark said:
Listen. You just don't get it. There's no chance on god's earth that ANY current American pool player will EVER get to pro snooker standard. Simply put, the damage is already done. Unless you're striking the ball cleanly by the age of about 10, it's just not going to happen. The difference between snooker and pool is stratospheric. Get over it.

Mind you, there's more chance of that than you ever admitting you were wrong about something lol.
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http://www.cuetracker.net/pages/players.php?ID=4400&season=1990/1991

Love the cuetracker database. Says Jim was a "pro" for five years and got to 101 in the ranking list as the highest spot. Now, I can say for sure that Jim Rempe did NOT give it his all to learn snooker. I am certain that he played on/off during that time and divided his attention with pool since pool was his livlihood.

However you can't be serious that I should admit that I am wrong about something that has never happened? We are speaking speculatively here for fun. You say could never happen I say could happen but since it's highly unlikely that any current pool player is going to try we will never know. All you can say is that it hasn't happened and is unlikely to. Kind of like what people said about a great many things that ended up happening.

Don't get yourself all worked up about my positive outlook on this. It's not like pool players around the world are going to read my thoughts on this and go "yeah man" let's go play snooker.
 
Shuddy said:
It's not poo-pooing, and it's nothing to do with snooker snobbery. I'm originally a snooker player, and the only time I ever considered watching any kind of American snooker was when I heard Corey was playing. It is very exciting watching a pool player competing in a different cue sport, just as it's exciting watching a snooker player on a pool table. It's also exciting and interesting thinking of the reactions of the dedicated snooker players, and the possible implications of his win.

But, no one is poo-pooing that excitement, or his win. I believe the responses have been aimed at talk of Corey taking on professional snooker, or international amateur snooker for that matter. It's just a reality check, or an attempt to inform those who may not be too familiar with high level snooker.

And yes, it works both ways. I recently started playing pool after a long lay off from snooker, and moving to a country where snooker is basically impossible to play. When I say recently, I mean about 8 weeks ago. After finding a local club, I was invited to play in the equivalent of a state championship, 8 ball and 9 ball. I won the 8 ball, beating a Korean pro in the final, but went out in the quarters of the 9 ball.

The only reason I'm on this forum now is because I'm trying to soak in as much information about pool as I can. After watching some of the pros I know there is so much I don't know about this game. Next week I'm going to a national event, where the like of Kim Ga Young and Cha Yu Ram will be playing. I'm so excited to watch the pros play, and learn as much as I can, because I know I have no idea what pro pool is really about.

The parallel is that unless you've been exposed to the professional or high level game, you don't really understand what you're up against. It's like your average bar hack saying he has a mate who can shoot 8 ball. You know that this guy probably doesn't really understand what pool is really about. I think that may be the case when people are suggesting Corey world.

In my case, even though I beat a pro, and won a state title, after 8 weeks of playing the game I completely understand that I don't really know what happens on a table until I'm exposed to real high level play. And until that happens, I'm in no position to make any claims or have any expectations of success.
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I totally agree with this. It's like when people see me run a rack and then start calling me a pro they have no idea that the pros are way way way above me.

I get all that. I lived in Germany for ten years, played some snooker, saw it ALL the time on Eurosport.

My only point is that we haven't seen any modern pool player go full immersion into snooker. And we likely won't see it. Until such time as that happens we won't really know what will happen although the odds are it would be extremely tough to compete. But what's acceptable in that situation, to maintain a top 100 ranking and be among the best 100 snooker players on the Earth? To crack the top 50? Top 16?

I mean to me, to go from being a pool player to being a solid top 100 snooker pro would be quite an accomplishment. I would consider that a success for anyone starting late to do in snooker.
 
Pathetic Shark said:
Listen. You just don't get it. There's no chance on god's earth that ANY current American pool player will EVER get to pro snooker standard. Simply put, the damage is already done. Unless you're striking the ball cleanly by the age of about 10, it's just not going to happen. The difference between snooker and pool is stratospheric. Get over it.

Mind you, there's more chance of that than you ever admitting you were wrong about something lol.
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Think you're probably right about starting early.
Whatever the reason, looks like all the great players were pro level by their teens, a few in their early teens.

For fun I went through the list of snooker millionaires, and most of them were pros before 20.
The few who didn't seemed to only turn pro late as a technicality or maybe by choice...
they'd have won lots of amateur titles and a junior national/world championship in their teens.

Mark Selby: Pro at 15
Ronnie O' Sullivan: Pro at 17. First century at 10!
Mark Williams: Pro at 17. First century at 13.
John Higgins: Pro at 17, won 3 majors at 19.
Steve Davis: Pro at 21, but was doing exhibition matches for money vs. pros at 18. Junior national champ.
Matthew Stevens: Pro at 17.
Peter Ebdon: Pro at 21.
Alan McManus: Pro at 19.
Stephen Lee: Pro at 18.
Willie Thorne: Pro at 19.
Tony Drago: no idea he was a snooker pro. Pro at 20.
Graeme Dott: Pro at 17.
Marco Fu: Pro at 20, started age 9 but apparently wasn't serious about it until 15.
Anthony Hamilton: Pro at 20.
Stephen Maguire: Pro at 17.
Ali Carter: Pro at 17.
Neil Robertson: Pro at 16. Says he started his career at 14 and ran a century in an AU event.
Ding Junhui: Pro at 16.

That's not everyone, just a sampling... but anyway, nobody in that list started in their late teens or beyond.
Maybe some "average pros" did who didn't become millionaires, can anyone find examples of this?
 
CreeDo said:
Think you're probably right about starting early.
Whatever the reason, looks like all the great players were pro level by their teens, a few in their early teens.

For fun I went through the list of snooker millionaires, and most of them were pros before 20.
The few who didn't seemed to only turn pro late as a technicality or maybe by choice...
they'd have won lots of amateur titles and a junior national/world championship in their teens.

Mark Selby: Pro at 15
Ronnie O' Sullivan: Pro at 17. First century at 10!
Mark Williams: Pro at 17. First century at 13.
John Higgins: Pro at 17, won 3 majors at 19.
Steve Davis: Pro at 21, but was doing exhibition matches for money vs. pros at 18. Junior national champ.
Matthew Stevens: Pro at 17.
Peter Ebdon: Pro at 21.
Alan McManus: Pro at 19.
Stephen Lee: Pro at 18.
Willie Thorne: Pro at 19.
Tony Drago: no idea he was a snooker pro. Pro at 20.
Graeme Dott: Pro at 17.
Marco Fu: Pro at 20, started age 9 but apparently wasn't serious about it until 15.
Anthony Hamilton: Pro at 20.
Stephen Maguire: Pro at 17.
Ali Carter: Pro at 17.
Neil Robertson: Pro at 16. Says he started his career at 14 and ran a century in an AU event.
Ding Junhui: Pro at 16.

That's not everyone, just a sampling... but anyway, nobody in that list started in their late teens or beyond.
Maybe some "average pros" did who didn't become millionaires, can anyone find examples of this?
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There will always be an exception that proves the rule, but they were pros young because of...talent.
 
JB Cases said:
I totally agree with this. It's like when people see me run a rack and then start calling me a pro they have no idea that the pros are way way way above me.

I get all that. I lived in Germany for ten years, played some snooker, saw it ALL the time on Eurosport.

My only point is that we haven't seen any modern pool player go full immersion into snooker. And we likely won't see it. Until such time as that happens we won't really know what will happen although the odds are it would be extremely tough to compete. But what's acceptable in that situation, to maintain a top 100 ranking and be among the best 100 snooker players on the Earth? To crack the top 50? Top 16?

I mean to me, to go from being a pool player to being a solid top 100 snooker pro would be quite an accomplishment. I would consider that a success for anyone starting late to do in snooker.
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John, this debate is really easy. All you need to do is ask yourself 'why aren't impoverished pro pool players having a go at the riches of pro snooker?'

And you have your answer.
 
JB Cases said:
... How about we make a $10,000 bet that Shane can run 100 balls in less than one month after he starts to try to run 100 balls. Anytime after today. I will back Shane and split the winnings with him. Johnny Archer ran 200 two weeks after he learned to play straight pool, beating Nick Varner in the finals of a straight pool tournament. Johnny went 150 and out and was encouraged to continue and made it to 200. ...
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John -- Shane has already run over 100 in 14.1. He's on YouTube with a run of 115 at the 14.1 challenge at the SBE last year. And I seem to recall an interview where he mentioned his high run, and it was higher than that.

But he has said he has no interest in 14.1 because there is no money in it.

As far as Shane and snooker, I think he has something of an extra movement in his swing that would have to be excised before he could be a top snooker player.
 
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JB Cases said:
You honestly think Shane can't learn to handle the stack? This isn't rocket science we are talking about here, it's hitting the ball with a stick.

If anything Shane will have to learn to dial it back and shoot only a fraction of the shots he is capable of.

But the larger point is that if I had the money to invest then I'd do it just to see what happens. Because that's how "impossible" stuff gets done. By people ignoring the experts and know it alls and getting in the grease.

How about we make a $10,000 bet that Shane can run 100 balls in less than one month after he starts to try to run 100 balls. Anytime after today. I will back Shane and split the winnings with him. Johnny Archer ran 200 two weeks after he learned to play straight pool, beating Nick Varner in the finals of a straight pool tournament. Johnny went 150 and out and was encouraged to continue and made it to 200.

I'd further bet that Shane would run his first century in snooker in less than two months into his snooker training and sooner than that if you count line-up drills.

But before you go off on me this is all academic because none of it is ever going to happen. If you honestly wanted to bet on the straight pool Shane's backers will be willing to bet as high as you want but no one on the planet is foolish enough to take that action.
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I still think it would take John less time to learn the game and I believe John has a better stroke to cross over to snooker Not that I'm a talent scout by I did sleep at a holiday inn last night and played a few yrs of snooker in Canada

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Corey does have something

Mr Corey Deuel will always be known as the National Snooker Champion for 2013.

Those of you who are knocking his win may just be a little envious of his ability to adapt to other games.

One thing is for sure. Corey will always have his name on the Trophy. I am pretty sure that the rest of you will not.

Let him enjoy his moment in history.

Don
 
JB Cases said:
Florian Kohler? Is he talented or dedicated? You can follow his progress from enthusiastic kid five/six years ago to world traveling money-earning trick shot professional. If he was talented only then he would not have needed all those thousands of hours spent learning and perfecting the shots he knows.
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John,

I don't believe anyone in this thread has stated talent alone is what makes top players great. It's a combination of talent and hard work.

You, on the other hand, seem certain that it's strictly practice.
 
Pathetic Shark said:
There will always be an exception that proves the rule, but they were pros young because of...talent.
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Yes. They just woke up one day and started being pros. Had nothing to do with intense practice and learning.

Same on the US side. kids just walk out of school and become pros with no training.
 
BeiberLvr said:
John,

I don't believe anyone in this thread has stated talent alone is what makes top players great. It's a combination of talent and hard work.

You, on the other hand, seem certain that it's strictly practice.
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Well, as i stated many times science and research disagrees so far. I asked anyone to show me someone who with less training succeed more than others and so far no one has shown an example of that.

I am quite happy to go with talent if you show me someone who did not work harder and still managed to be at the top.

Corey put a huge amount of time in learning to play.
 
Poolshootindon said:
Mr Corey Deuel will always be known as the National Snooker Champion for 2013.

Those of you who are knocking his win may just be a little envious of his ability to adapt to other games.

One thing is for sure. Corey will always have his name on the Trophy. I am pretty sure that the rest of you will not.

Let him enjoy his moment in history.

Don
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Absolutely, and don't forget the other competitors and organisers who made it all happen.
 
Congrats Corey

JB Cases said:
Not bad for a pool player playing with a pool cue who just started trying to play it a couple weeks ago. Granted the quality of play was far far far less than the world professional standard but still Corey beat the best snooker players in the USA who presumably know the game much more than he does.

I wonder - again - how any pool player would do IF he had a really great snooker coach and a year to train?

Personally I think that they would do very well and Steve Davis pretty much said the same thing in an interview.

Flame away snooker snobs - tell us all it's not possible for a pool player to beat a snooker player at snooker. :-)
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First off, huge congrats to Corey on winning the snooker tournament! I'd love to see him play snooker, just like I love to watch Alex play. These guys are unreal so it's always cool to see them switch games. It's really cool that Corey took some time to learn the game, and I'm not surprised at all that he won in the end. I think it was a pretty lucky field to have a player like Corey in there with them.

On the subject of switching games, a few people have mentioned Rempe/Mizerak playing snooker. I have a few hours of footage on DVD of Mizerak playing snooker against Davis, Hendry and Jimmy White, as well as Joe Johnson (1986 World Snooker Champion) from the late '80s and early '90s, If anyone's interested just send me a message on here.

It's always interesting to see the best players taking on a new game, and seeing how they get on. Anyone who gives it a shot deserves a lot of respect IMO. I really hope Corey can keep on playing snooker. Regardless of the outcome, I'd love to see another all around challenge with top pool and snooker players like they had back in the '80s and '90s. Corey, Alex and Shane would be a lot of fun to watch, for sure.
 
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