In regards to Bonus Ball

[SpiderWebComm]

Bb has NOT been a massive success.

All that matters IS the online audience.

Give a good show to your 50-75 in person attendees means little when you enrage over 1000 on a daily basis.

Step one.. fire your online streaming host. NOW.

Step two.. pm me if you want some dirrection.

To say whatever happens after the stream hits your hosting company doesn't concern you is insane... it's your responsibility.

I'm at a cookout today but but can 100% fix your hosting prob by Monday if you want. Just pm me. This streaming shit pays my mortgage and have been doing it since 1999.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

[JumpinJoe]

Bb has NOT been a massive success.

All that matters IS the online audience.

Give a good show to your 50-75 in person attendees means little when you enrage over 1000 on a daily basis.

Step one.. fire your online streaming host. NOW.

Step two.. pm me if you want some dirrection.

To say whatever happens after the stream hits your hosting company doesn't concern you is insane... it's your responsibility.

I'm at a cookout today but but can 100% fix your hosting prob by Monday if you want. Just pm me. This streaming shit pays my mortgage and have been doing it since 1999.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

It would be admission of failure to ask for outside help now.
Just sit back and watch this freak show.

 

[Hungarian]

Fast Lenny is there working I thought.

They don't want anyone from the industry though, just like they don't want the pool fans here. If this is/was being made for china/Taiwan maybe they should have got some of their players. One things for sure, they would have studied, practiced, and knew the damn rules.

Nathan should be suspended for week 2, just like Birdman was suspended for game 6. Something tells me they may be related.

Yeah, but I like Birdman

 

[cajunfats]

I Love You, Man!

Just a quick story as an analogy and possibly a learning tool.

Years ago I was hired by a very wealthy and successful NYC real estate developer to design, set up, and run a high quality and nicely sized residential sales project in Queens.

As we were about to open for sales and were going over inventory, pricing, and advertising when he asked me to take most of the "better" units off the market because he didn't want to run out of them before we raised their prices a few more times later during the sales process.

I asked him which units he believed were the "better" ones and were most likely to sell out faster and he told me which "lines" and layouts he thought were the "best" and were in danger of disappearing during the opening weekend. He then asked me if I agreed and I said "It's always the public who makes those decisions, not us. We can try and project our beliefs and direct our efforts using past experiences, but we must ultimately pay attention to what the market is telling us, not what we are telling the market"

We were already charging considerably more for the units that we believed were the most desirable and in doing so were directing most people towards the more affordable ones. But, he was still concerned that we would "sell out" on opening day, so rather than remove the inventory, I made him an offer. I guaranteed him, with my six figure job on the line, that not only can't anyone (he) predict, with certainty, the public's choices, but that we would definitely not "sell out" his most coveted apartments.

Needless to say, during the opening weekend, we sold much less, maybe one, of the most desirable units that he selected than any others.

Bottom line: There is no room for arrogance and emotion in business, "It's always the public who makes those decisions, not us. We can try and project our beliefs and direct our efforts using past experiences, but we must ultimately pay attention to what the market is telling us, not what we are telling the market", and finally, unless you can afford to be temporarily "unengaged", don't tell your boss that you think he's not as smart as he believes.

J

Jimmy, as always, bullseye! If someone is busy doin' all the splainin', he ain't listenin'! This isn't selling cars, with a salesperson draped on your skirt telling you the virtues of the kid friendly SUV. Momma knows what she wants for her brood, and shopping, and soccer practice.

It is why I posted my theory on the real long term goals of BB. It doesn't have jack s&%t to do with AZ Billiards or the American Pool Market.

I have no doubt about Nathan's ability with the camera and video capabilities. In studio this will be top notch! The sales package will go out to other entities that may have an interest. Because he is a team member of BB Management, he will get the heat and the credit. It isn't personal, just business.

I agree with Justin, Nathan should stay out of posting anything in regards to BB. Unless they have an official spokesperson,PR expert or company, Mr. Chiborak should be the Face and Voice of all things Bonus Ball.

There are Venture Capitalists in Asia waiting for this product. If not, then it will die a gruesome death in the American Marketplace.

cajunfats(Carl)

 

[JayKidd]

Again Lenny, you cant tell us that something CANT BE TESTED. You can tell me that you didn't test it which is obvious but you could have tested it and chose not to. It was more important to get it started ASAP instead of taking a week or two and having a preseason and doing testing then. If you would have said this week that you were going to stream a match for free and it wasnt going to count so that you could test traffic I am sure you could have had a high load to test this. It comes down to planning and execution and your management chose not to do either and that reflects on them in a very negative way when you are trying to convince us that you are running a top notch operation.

As a guy with some internet website expertise, I do think every huge-traffic website launch is a highly risky business, and it is nearly impossible to be tested. You just simply couldn't attract high enough visitors on a trial run or preview. Some companies are making big money by offering simulation service to emulate huge amount of real-person traffic, but they are not so real as real users can be. Not having any opinions on BB. Just to express my simpathy to Nathan, since I have experienced unlucky launches like this before and I know the helpless feeling.

 

[brandoncook26]

I'm pleased to now know that the 10,000 of us that made plans to watch this weekend, many of which were planning to pay to watch in the future,

are being told we are in essence an insignificant and irrelevant part of BB's plan.

And for the record, for the 800th time, I want BB to succeed. But this is borderline incompetence topped with unaccountabilty and arrogance.

The communications of the WPBL has now inflamed me more than the streaming failures that cost me my time. Keep on pissing on us, apparently we don't matter.

Own it. Fix it. You're losing us...

I understand that AZ is a website dedicated to pool, so everyone will be interested. However, the part you mentioned about us being irrelevant has been stated multiple times by Nathan.

I am of the opinion that if I am not the target demographic, then they don't need my money. It seems very obvious that the BB group doesn't give a shit about the AZ demographic. I have never been much of a masochist, and would rather not spend my money to get stepped on. I will continue to spend my dollars on TAR and enjoy the games I have come to love.

Can we start a thread about how epic this coming weeks TAR 35 is going to be and drop all the bonus ball talk? They have stated that they have a grand plan that doesn't involve us. If BB becomes the savior of pool, great. Personally, I like pool how it is...a niche market with diehard fans.

I am amped up about the upcoming TAR, and I won't even be able to watch Friday or Saturday because I'm working. You better believe I will be glued to my screen Sunday night though.

 

[Hungarian]

CLEARY, Fix your banner son.


=cleary;4195572]Bonus ball should spend some of that money on a PR person. If I didn't know you personally and I were reading this, I'd assume you were the biggest douchbag in pool that cannot admit when he failed and talks down to his consumers with a huge disconnect from reality. Might want to work on that when you fix those other issues.[/QUOTE]

 

[boogeyman]

Bonus Ball

Nathan, just wondering... do you have a contact number for the BBall group? I was wondering who I could talk to about getting hired on where I would fit.

Please email me? rlnslo@hotmail.com

Willing to relocate and/or fly in a moments notice to meet and talk to hiring party.

I believe in this great concept.
Keep moving forward.

Andy

 

[Hungarian]

You should have asked for a relo package kid. you dogged it

Nathan, just wondering... do you have a contact number for the BBall group? I was wondering who I could talk to about getting hired on where I would fit.

Please email me? rlnslo@hotmail.com

Willing to relocate and/or fly in a moments notice to meet and talk to hiring party.

I believe in this great concept.
Keep moving forward.

Andy

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

I've been too busy with damage control to check the forums this weekend, but I'm assuming things here are pretty bitter and negative. I just wanted to quickly make a statement or two.

For one, I run the production company. I'm not a network guy, nor is that my job, nor is it that of anyone else on my crew. Those services are offered by a dedicated company. My crew runs a massive production setup here, and push a stream to the servers. What happens past that point is not my concern (although Im totally to blame for the missing audio on the first 10 minutes on day 1 however.

Both the website hosting and video delivery network crashed under the high traffic. They said it wouldn't but clearly it did. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Although today the host switched us over to a tier 3 VPS and promised it would handle the load (plus I personally added some additional horsepower to the server in hopes of saving the day), it still got crushed within minutes. We ended up just streaming a low quality feed to ustream at the lowest bitrate possible, which clearly sucked ass.

Unfortunate? Absolutely. But catastrophic? Far from it.

What really mattered is what happened here at the venue. The game is amazing, the production was awesome, and the venue looks incredible. Best of all, the players are more into this than anything ive ever seen. The investors are pumped, the network people that came through are all over it, and the casino reps have schedule further meetings.

At the end of the day, a stream is just a stream. It’s unfortunate that viewers were disappointed and unable to watch anything short of mediocrity, but in the big picture, the core of what we aimed for was a success.

We have the matches in 1080p, recorded in flawless quality, and will be releasing them soon. All other matches this week will be recorded, but not streamed (until the network people solve the problem). Week 2 will be free to everyone (assuming we get the system fixed in time), and anyone who purchased will get their subscription extended 2 additional weeks.

For those of you who want to remain negative, feel free. It doesn't bother us one bit, nor do we blame you. You only see what goes online, and that has obviously been a disaster. And for those who enjoyed what little they saw of the game, then thanks for standing by us, and get ready for an incredible season.

A shit stream or not, Bonus Ball is here to stay.

PS. Read more about it here. http://www.wpbltv.com/news/wpbl-debut-match/14

For what it's worth I am sure he posted this with little sleep, and lots of stress in his life. Sometimes we all post things that weeks later we read it and say omg what was I thinking.
I hope it all works out.
hugs
mrs.g

 

[OLD NO 9]

It would be admission of failure to ask for outside help now.
Just sit back and watch this freak show.

So true, but if Nathan would take SpiderWebComm up on his offer, SpiderWebComm could become Nathan's BFF.

For Want of a Nail

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Customers don't care about how much you know until they know how much you care.
When in doubt, fall on the sword. Misdirected blame will undoubtedly result in the same.

Even if something isn't your direct fault and you're the one in charge, take responsibility.

When you have all indians and no chief, all of the above go out the window.

It's Larry's (or whoever is the guy that runs BB) fault and responsibility for this mess. He should have forbidden AZB posts and put out a fall-on-the-sword press release and tell everyone how sorry he was for the missed start. He should then blame himself for the lack of streaming experience and for that of his crew and follow it up with a promise to do better.

Nathan - pull the move and don't post anymore. You're letting your emotions get the best of you and it's bucketing water in the ship versus out of it.

Anyone in this business has been in the same spot. I have, Justin has - everyone has. Justin gave perfect advice the other day--- everyone goes through this. It's not what happened that matters, it's how you fix it.

At the IPT, I bought a dedicated internet line and had it installed at the casino JUST for the stream. That way, we could control everything and separate our traffic from that of the hotel. It cost us a fortune - literally (I didn't want the hotel IT people to have ANY fingers on my shit). Would you believe the ISP went down one afternoon?? It did - no shit. The odds of that were 1/1000 at LEAST. Who's fault was it? Mine. Can't blame anyone else because I didn't have a contingency plan so it was my fault - no doubt. They paid me to make sure they could stream and they couldn't for that afternoon....my fault, no one else's.

That's actually how "spiderwebcomm" account came to be--- I had to create an AZB account that day to dump water on the nuclear fallout from the online people. I never had an account until then. I also didn't sleep for shit that night, I looked like a vampire the next morning and got'r'done. We've all been there.

Forget the past -- can't change it. Forget the posts--- no one cares what you say from here on out, trust me. All that matters is how you execute moving forward. I'm here to help if you want and I'm sure others are too. Nobody here is praying you fail -- quite the opposite.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

So true, but if Nathan would take SpiderWebComm up on his offer, SpiderWebComm could become Nathan's BFF.

I happen to be a big fan of Nathan. His video production is really good. We have a lot of talent on this site--- Nathan, Cleary, JCIN, Sean Leinen -- all very talented dudes. Trust me - there's no ego with me... I've been in the same spot a few times. The only reason I know how to fix certain things is that I've ALREADY F'ed them up previously... NOT because I'm smart.

This is NOTHING---- NOTHING. Imagine having to stream something where you have legal liability. Imagine streaming the surgical review and recertification lectures to physicians across the country (live, online lectures that doctors use as a cram-course before they re-take their recert exam every 10 years) and have THAT go down. That's something where if they fail, they can't go into work the next day and practice. Been there--- puked on that.

That's why I've vaguely unfamiliar with these podunk streaming hosts. All of these small streaming hosts (if you keep going up the line) buy services from the top 3 or so companies. I just go straight to those. They cost 10x more but you're working with the ocean and not the swimming pool. When it COUNTS, I buy shit from the companies that stream the space shuttle launches or Disney programs - not the host that streams a guy playing pool in his basement. Space shuttle launches, btw, are the largest online views (concurrently).

 

[Nostroke]

I happen to be a big fan of Nathan. His video production is really good. We have a lot of talent on this site--- Nathan, Cleary, JCIN, Sean Leinen -- all very talented dudes. Trust me - there's no ego with me... I've been in the same spot a few times. The only reason I know how to fix certain things is that I've ALREADY F'ed them up previously... NOT because I'm smart.

This is NOTHING---- NOTHING. Imagine having to stream something where you have legal liability. Imagine streaming the surgical review and recertification lectures to physicians across the country (live, online lectures that doctors use as a cram-course before they re-take their recert exam every 10 years) and have THAT go down. That's something where if they fail, they can't go into work the next day and practice. Been there--- puked on that.

That's why I've vaguely unfamiliar with these podunk streaming hosts. All of these small streaming hosts (if you keep going up the line) buy services from the top 3 or so companies. I just go straight to those. They cost 10x more but you're working with the ocean and not the swimming pool. When it COUNTS, I buy shit from the companies that stream the space shuttle launches or Disney programs - not the host that streams a guy playing pool in his basement. Space shuttle launches, btw, are the largest online views (concurrently).

concurrently?

 

[RobertaAgnor]

Thanks for the support everyone.



Responsible, and at fault are entirely different.

Although not part of my contract, I did hire these service providers to handle the networking. They failed miserably, and although I was not the one directly at fault, I'm still responsible. My job or not, I'm the one who chose these companies.

I don't know server stuff at all, hired companies who do it for a living, and well...they didn't deliver. In the end it falls on me.

In hindsight, if I had to do it over, I'd probably do the exact same thing. I'm not sure how I could have foreseen it, unless I hired someone else who was qualified to double check the work after maybe?




Brian, I'm not sure I follow. Is this in reference to me saying that I assume people on here will be negative? I actually outright said that any negativity is justified, and that I wouldnt blame anyone for it. After all, the only thing anyone has seen outside of the studio, is an admittedly pathetic feed, so it stands to reason that people would be disappointed. I'm not knocking anyone for hating. I'm trying to say that I appreciate anyone who stick it out through this period of doubt until the issue gets sorted out.

I've been pulling for this from the very beginning when I first heard about it several years ago. I tried watching both nights but only saw a little bit from last night, what I saw was very good. I'm very glad next week will be available free, that's pretty cool of y'all to do.

Hope all the issues get worked out soon!

 

[1on1pooltournys]

Bonus ball should spend some of that money on a PR person. If I didn't know you personally and I were reading this, I'd assume you were the biggest douchbag in pool that cannot admit when he failed and talks down to his consumers with a huge disconnect from reality. Might want to work on that when you fix those other issues.

I was thinking the same thing. It seems like they are very unorganized. Too many people speaking for Bonus Ball, WPBL, or whatever they want to be called.
With the type of money they have supposedly sunk in and stashed away, it would be imperative to hire somebody who works in PR for a living. Not let a few random people speak up whenever they feel like it for the company.

I appreciate Nathan communicating but I think some people will find this sorta like "a day late and a dollar short." It came after two days of mix ups and blunders.

Like I said all along I hope it works for the players. I have some good friends on teams and I truly wish them success. I hope they make hay while the sun shines. :thumbup:

 

[John Novak]

I've been too busy with damage control to check the forums this weekend, but I'm assuming things here are pretty bitter and negative. I just wanted to quickly make a statement or two.

For one, I run the production company. I'm not a network guy, nor is that my job, nor is it that of anyone else on my crew. Those services are offered by a dedicated company. My crew runs a massive production setup here, and push a stream to the servers. What happens past that point is not my concern (although Im totally to blame for the missing audio on the first 10 minutes on day 1 however.

Both the website hosting and video delivery network crashed under the high traffic. They said it wouldn't but clearly it did. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Although today the host switched us over to a tier 3 VPS and promised it would handle the load (plus I personally added some additional horsepower to the server in hopes of saving the day), it still got crushed within minutes. We ended up just streaming a low quality feed to ustream at the lowest bitrate possible, which clearly sucked ass.

Unfortunate? Absolutely. But catastrophic? Far from it.

What really mattered is what happened here at the venue. The game is amazing, the production was awesome, and the venue looks incredible. Best of all, the players are more into this than anything ive ever seen. The investors are pumped, the network people that came through are all over it, and the casino reps have schedule further meetings.

At the end of the day, a stream is just a stream. It’s unfortunate that viewers were disappointed and unable to watch anything short of mediocrity, but in the big picture, the core of what we aimed for was a success.

We have the matches in 1080p, recorded in flawless quality, and will be releasing them soon. All other matches this week will be recorded, but not streamed (until the network people solve the problem). Week 2 will be free to everyone (assuming we get the system fixed in time), and anyone who purchased will get their subscription extended 2 additional weeks.

For those of you who want to remain negative, feel free. It doesn't bother us one bit, nor do we blame you. You only see what goes online, and that has obviously been a disaster. And for those who enjoyed what little they saw of the game, then thanks for standing by us, and get ready for an incredible season.

A shit stream or not, Bonus Ball is here to stay.

PS. Read more about it here. http://www.wpbltv.com/news/wpbl-debut-match/14

Nathan

Keep pluggin away, Im sure you will get it perfect. I remember this past Mosconi Cup ESPN3 streamed it online and even they had lag issues throughout their broadcast. I was just pleased to be able to view it live. I didnt have very much problems the first night with your broadcast. I had some lag for about maybe 30 min, then it was ok after that. The audio was not good but, I was pleased to be able to see it even though it wasnt perfect.

Dont let the negative comments bring you down... All the Streamers of today forget all the problems they had when they first started. And. dont forget, NONE of these Streamers that are telling you negative BS never had to handle the high traffic that you had.......Lets see if any of them ever had 10,000 viewers at one time if they were able to handle that kind of traffic.

Good luck to you and Bonus Ball. Personally I think this game format is brilliant.......

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Agree

I'm as non-biased about this anyone so I can tell you what I'm seeing from the sidelines
First off I don't really know Nathan but he has got to be proud of his accomplishments and anyone else would be to. I also have mad respect for JCIN and his accomplishments..... He too should be very proud.
What I don't get is why people think that his post are offending in anyway. As I think he has handled all the critics comments with grace.(I couldn't do it) I know my reading comprehension is not of the caliber of some but I don't understand some of the responses I've heard even from people you wouldn't expect it to be coming from. I more understand JCINs view because of past history with Nathan though I know nothing about it. Unless these other posters have some other beef with Nathan I don't understand the bashing of Nathan and don't fool yourself... It's so obvious my limited reading comprehension couldn't miss it. Are they following a trend? Why hate on Nathan? Crucifying him when he tries to explain things is not right either. Good damn thing your not in a glasses house....

There was another thread that was started last week that is somewhere around 30k views. The negative and biased posts just kept coming. I understand why Nathan hasn't said much, Especially on AZB.

So many have taken sides, either for or agains't. Then there is the small % that is open minded that hopes for the sake of the game and the Pro Players making what I think is deserved, making a living.

These same people are all over this now when the first 2 shows went off with problems.
These are the same people that have continuously expressed that BB will fail. Now they keep coming on thinking people will join their bandwagon for BB to fail.

I will continue to promote BB through facebook, A lot of the the pro's are on FB doing their own promoting. I think with BB and the setbacks they have had. Their main focus was getting their facility ready, teaching the game to a group of pros. I don't think anything was said about not caring about the online viewers. These streaming problems are growing problems, and I am sure these issues will be worked out.

Good Luck Nathan and co.
Gary Lutman

 

[cookie man]

Bb has NOT been a massive success.

All that matters IS the online audience.

Give a good show to your 50-75 in person attendees means little when you enrage over 1000 on a daily basis.

Step one.. fire your online streaming host. NOW.

Step two.. pm me if you want some dirrection.

To say whatever happens after the stream hits your hosting company doesn't concern you is insane... it's your responsibility.

I'm at a cookout today but but can 100% fix your hosting prob by Monday if you want. Just pm me. This streaming shit pays my mortgage and have been doing it since 1999.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

When u coming to Florida? Hope all is well

 

[Lumocolor]

My unimportant opinion.

The stream sucked, everyone can agree on that

As for the game itself...

1-Pockets need to be bigger (I watch POCKET billiards to see good players pocket balls)
2-Time clock needs to be longer (in a team game i want the guys playing to have time to high five and whoop it up a little after a great shot, not run back and forth to the table as if they're on fire)
3-If 90% of the games are going to go to a shootout why even bother playing for 15 minutes? Just do the shootout In other words revisit point #1...lol.
4-I want the players to look less stressed. Revisit point #2 again

IMO get rid of the time clock altogether, change the game to an innings format with each team having a separate time clock (view curling).

ROUGH EXAMPLE: Each team has 10 innings, you shoot till you miss, then your teams inning is over. Each team has a 15 minute clock and 2 time outs which they can use however they want, (team clock starts when all balls have stopped rolling) if they have a tough shot and want to look at it for 2 minute then thats up to them they just have 13 minutes left on their clock, if their clock gets to zero then they forfeit the reminder of their innings. Play until both teams have completed their 10 innings or ran out their clocks, whichever comes first. Whowever has more points at that point wins that game.