Entitlement

[Banks]

Why do players feel entitled to get paid without putting in any effort?

Also, why do others expect amature/social players to pay the way for pros?

In any real business, to be a professional you have to work for it, market your product/service and then you still have to work hard. Bonus Ball is doing that and you can see the crap they have to go through.

There are few players that I can respect without being told more about them. That's fine with me, because chances are the rest wouldn't do diddly-squat to change that. Until then, I'm fine and dandy giving my hard-earned cash to the APA and BCA. 8 1/2 years of APA and about 700 matches.. not once did knowing who a pro is make a bit of difference. Tonight, when I make dinner, I'll think about sending a check to a high-end chef in BFE.

I'm also more than happy to beat this horse into the ground, since the alternative is hearing day after day how I should give so-and-so free money for doing jack.

Edit: This song kind of comes to mind at times..

 

[hang-the-9]

I think it's like this...

If you are a great baseball player, you have scouts watching out for guys like you from the time you are 12 or something. Same thing for football and other major sports. People come up to you and want to give you stuff, bring you places, pay you 3 mil a year to work an hour a day.

If you are a good or great pool player, you get drunks telling you how easy the game is and that they can play good also, you're lucky to be allowed to pay $500 for entry fees and travel 2,000 miles on your own dime to attempt to break even.

It would annoy the hell out of me also and I'm sure I'd get pretty bitter about it.

 

[Mikey Town]

In all walks of life, there are people/personalities that feel that they are entitled to something more than the next guy because they are smarter, have more skill, have more money, etc... These are the people who usually enjoy only temporary success at their endeavors.

Then there are the people who know exactly what they are... people... nothing more. These are the people who realize that we are all cut largely from the same cloth, and that it takes hard, smart work and dedication to get where you want to go. They know that the cream doesn't automatically rise to the top, and nothing is gifted to you. These are the people who remember where they come from and appreciate the people who help them along the way. These are the people who ultimately enjoy true success.

I'm sure the vast majority of us know people who fit into each of these categories. Life runs its course and true colors end up coming through sooner or later.

 

[Nostroke]

You cant ask a question based on a premise you haven't established.

By the way-when did you stop beating your wife?

 

[Poolshootindon]

IQ check here.

You cant ask a question based on a premise you haven't established.

By the way-when did you stop beating your wife?

Nostroke.. What is this suppose to mean?

Idiots like you should be banned for good.

Just because someone has a view that is different than yours is no reason to show you IQ or should I say lack of.

Don

 

[Banks]

You cant ask a question based on a premise you haven't established.

By the way-when did you stop beating your wife?

Does your mom know you ask stupid questions?

If you haven't read one of the numerous posts that ask what everybody's doing for the pros, you should think of posting less and reading more. The above is a good example. :thumbup:

 

[bfdlad]

Nostroke.. What is this suppose to mean?

Idiots like you should be banned for good.

Just because someone has a view that is different than yours is no reason to show you IQ or should I say lack of.

Don

Now I am not saying it's right but alot of the top players have been made a fuss of since they were like 16 years old. People in the pool room fawning over you, wanting to be your friend and then as you get older people wanting to help you any way they can. They want a photo with you and an autograph. I can imagine it's easy to get into a mind set that "I'm special" Maybe thats where the entitlement comes from in SOME cases.

Then their are the players who are not quite there but have been made such a fuss of in their own little town that they think they can demand anything but need the prize funds increased and want to tourney to pay lower down the field so they can make more money for being a average player.

I was lucky enough to spend an afternoon at a BBQ a few years ago at Coach Mike D'Antoni's home the former coach or the Phoenix Suns. At this time in the MBA the Suns were the most exciting team in the league, at the top of their division and always made the playoffs with stars like Nash, Marion, Amare, Coach had been named Coach of the year 2 years running I believe and was on top of the world. A great situation to be in and to demand one thing or another. But while chatting in his home the biggest picture on the wall was a decorative writing.in Italian. Nothing but words in a fancy font. I asked Mike D "What does that say/" He said translated it says "At the end of the game the Kings and Pawns all go back in the same box" Great attitude. I saw this again recently on FB and so thias thread just reminded me of it.

 

[The Renfro]

Why do players feel entitled to get paid without putting in any effort?

Also, why do others expect amature/social players to pay the way for pros?

In any real business, to be a professional you have to work for it, market your product/service and then you still have to work hard. Bonus Ball is doing that and you can see the crap they have to go through.

There are few players that I can respect without being told more about them. That's fine with me, because chances are the rest wouldn't do diddly-squat to change that. Until then, I'm fine and dandy giving my hard-earned cash to the APA and BCA. 8 1/2 years of APA and about 700 matches.. not once did knowing who a pro is make a bit of difference. Tonight, when I make dinner, I'll think about sending a check to a high-end chef in BFE.

I'm also more than happy to beat this horse into the ground, since the alternative is hearing day after day how I should give so-and-so free money for doing jack.

Edit: This song kind of comes to mind at times..

Good for you... You get your entertainment out of playing league and that is where it ends for you....

Lots of players like to sweat the matches and even watch them as entertainment..Those types show up at tournaments all around the country..

Funniest thing I ever saw was the Masters event a few years ago that was held in the same building as the APA... If I had to bet I'd say less than 5 of the league players even cared.... Pool is a social thing for them which is fine... It doesn't have to be a sport or art or anything else as it can be played at lower skill levels and just be for fun.....

When I played league the only guy that watched someone else's match was the poor schmuck who had to keep score... League pool is usually bad pool and bad pool is very hard to watch. Add to that hardly any sweating or side bets and you have a different culture than existed for years....

Asking league players who see no benefit from having pool at the higher levels to pay a fee into a fund for the pros to play shouldn't be done and to my knowledge it has NOT been mandated by any of the older leagues.

It has been brought up on many occasions but the only true attempt at it is the USAPL... Which you DON"T have to play in if you don't buy into the concept....

Not everyone likes league play... I played years ago but I'd rather burn my money than stick a dollar in Hubbert or Bell's pocket... Or better yet I'll take the cash and travel to a tournament...

I think league's are likely the best way to get new players into the game and out of the 500,000 of them a small number will progress past the confines of the local bar... Just like before leagues when there were only local pool rooms...

Very few players ever can even understand the game at the higher levels... But everyone who holds a cue tends to think all I have to do is quit their real job and practice to get as good as the pros they have never really watched or paid attention to..

This is where the rubber hits the road... Until such a time that viewership increases only Bonus Ball is going to pay the pros to play... Pool has to be entertaining for people to watch it. If league players in mass can't see the art form/sport even when they watch it what chance does the general public have..

In short you can keep your money Banks... There will be no pool tax on the league players... It's sad for the few that will progress but for the other 99.999999% they would rather spend it on beer... And for those players it would be better spent that way...


Chris

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

You cant ask a question based on a premise you haven't established.

NoStroke is a pretty good guy and I don't think he was trying to accuse you of beating your wife.

I quoted his anology he was trying to make and maybe it didn't quite figure with your
statements.

Anyway, it was about the same as asking, "Does your Mother know you're stupid".

That was a joke and not meant to be directed toward anyone here.

Myself, I don;t think my Mom ever suspected.

 

[bfdlad]

NoStroke is a pretty good guy and I don't think he was trying to accuse you of beating your wife.

I quoted his anology he was trying to make and maybe it didn't quite figure with your
statements.

Anyway, it was about the same as asking, "Does your Mother know you're stupid".

That was a joke and not meant to be directed toward anyone here.

Myself, I don;t think my Mom ever suspected.

Hog, I hate to tell you this but she knew. She was a mother and would never have given you any indication that she was aware Hope all is well man. Oh BTW My Mum never said a word to me either. But I have no problem telling my kids anymore.

 

[Banks]

Lots of players like to sweat the matches and even watch them as entertainment..Those types show up at tournaments all around the country..

Funniest thing I ever saw was the Masters event a few years ago that was held in the same building as the APA... If I had to bet I'd say less than 5 of the league players even cared.... Pool is a social thing for them which is fine... It doesn't have to be a sport or art or anything else as it can be played at lower skill levels and just be for fun.....

In short you can keep your money Banks... There will be no pool tax on the league players... It's sad for the few that will progress but for the other 99.999999% they would rather spend it on beer... And for those players it would be better spent that way...


Chris

Unfortunately, here in the PNW we're sorely lacking for any type of real tournaments. The only thing Oregon really has are the APA/BCA regional tournaments. Even at those, you'll find some people watching the big matches, but not usually that many.

I'm not worried about keeping my money, I've got that one down.. well, mostly. Sad that there's no league player tax? There it is again. I think I've brought that up before. I'd have little/no problem with it if it meant pros actually coming out to events and interacting. Instead, most just want a free ride. I'd even be willing to contribute to an AZB fund to sponsor a contributing pro. I won't be pitching in for Joe Pro for no reason at all, though.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Ya know Mark, come to think of it, yer right. Moms are Moms.

And mine wasn't stupid, she loved me anyway.

 

[bfdlad]

Unfortunately, here in the PNW we're sorely lacking for any type of real tournaments. The only thing Oregon really has are the APA/BCA regional tournaments. Even at those, you'll find some people watching the big matches, but not usually that many.

I'm not worried about keeping my money, I've got that one down.. well, mostly. Sad that there's no league player tax? There it is again. I think I've brought that up before. I'd have little/no problem with it if it meant pros actually coming out to events and interacting. Instead, most just want a free ride. I'd even be willing to contribute to an AZB fund to sponsor a contributing pro. I won't be pitching in for Joe Pro for no reason at all, though.

Banks, the last time I saw you I think you were beating up a couple of world Champions in a garage. Playing pool that is. Maybe you should be on the Pro side since you are getting close Them burgers were good though eh?? Thats where my skill really is.

 

[DoubleA]

Good for you... You get your entertainment out of playing league and that is where it ends for you....

Lots of players like to sweat the matches and even watch them as entertainment..Those types show up at tournaments all around the country..

Funniest thing I ever saw was the Masters event a few years ago that was held in the same building as the APA... If I had to bet I'd say less than 5 of the league players even cared.... Pool is a social thing for them which is fine... It doesn't have to be a sport or art or anything else as it can be played at lower skill levels and just be for fun.....

When I played league the only guy that watched someone else's match was the poor schmuck who had to keep score... League pool is usually bad pool and bad pool is very hard to watch. Add to that hardly any sweating or side bets and you have a different culture than existed for years....

Asking league players who see no benefit from having pool at the higher levels to pay a fee into a fund for the pros to play shouldn't be done and to my knowledge it has NOT been mandated by any of the older leagues.

It has been brought up on many occasions but the only true attempt at it is the USAPL... Which you DON"T have to play in if you don't buy into the concept....

Not everyone likes league play... I played years ago but I'd rather burn my money than stick a dollar in Hubbert or Bell's pocket... Or better yet I'll take the cash and travel to a tournament...

I think league's are likely the best way to get new players into the game and out of the 500,000 of them a small number will progress past the confines of the local bar... Just like before leagues when there were only local pool rooms...

Very few players ever can even understand the game at the higher levels... But everyone who holds a cue tends to think all I have to do is quit their real job and practice to get as good as the pros they have never really watched or paid attention to..

This is where the rubber hits the road... Until such a time that viewership increases only Bonus Ball is going to pay the pros to play... Pool has to be entertaining for people to watch it. If league players in mass can't see the art form/sport even when they watch it what chance does the general public have..

In short you can keep your money Banks... There will be no pool tax on the league players... It's sad for the few that will progress but for the other 99.999999% they would rather spend it on beer... And for those players it would be better spent that way...


Chris

Fully agree Chris.

 

[Banks]

Banks, the last time I saw you I think you were beating up a couple of world Champions in a garage. Playing pool that is. Maybe you should be on the Pro side since you are getting close Them burgers were good though eh?? Thats where my skill really is.

Ha! You keep that up and nobody's going to want to gamble, then I won't be able to pay for the next clinic. Remember.. I'm absolutely horrible, can't make a ball and should probably quit altogether. At least, that last part was how I felt playing those guys. I may be able to make a bank the next time I see you, so be afraid!

The burgers were good. I still need to get ahold of Joe and hook him up with more burritos. Damn I've been busy this year. I'll be interested in finding out who's going on the road next time. Darren and Nick were fun to be around, so either way I'm not worried.

 

[The Renfro]

Unfortunately, here in the PNW we're sorely lacking for any type of real tournaments. The only thing Oregon really has are the APA/BCA regional tournaments. Even at those, you'll find some people watching the big matches, but not usually that many.

I'm not worried about keeping my money, I've got that one down.. well, mostly. Sad that there's no league player tax? There it is again. I think I've brought that up before. I'd have little/no problem with it if it meant pros actually coming out to events and interacting. Instead, most just want a free ride. I'd even be willing to contribute to an AZB fund to sponsor a contributing pro. I won't be pitching in for Joe Pro for no reason at all, though.

It's sad in that the sheer number would make it viable at a per player cost of almost nothing... viable but still not fair....

The idea Mark had for the USAPL was to require player interactions and actually provide added value to the league thru the connection to the pro players... Last I heard the pros had the normal attitude of not being willing to work the promotions side of it... Maybe Bonus Ball makes it and we will all be working hard to get a spot on a team... Maybe it fails and the pros will get behind USAPL if Mark is still willing....

Europe may have the right model but I don't know if someone even introduced it here that it would succeed between the wants/needs of the tournament players vs the wants/needs of the league players vs the wants/needs of the pros vs the wants/needs of the promoters and on and on........

Chris

 

[bfdlad]

Ha! You keep that up and nobody's going to want to gamble, then I won't be able to pay for the next clinic. Remember.. I'm absolutely horrible, can't make a ball and should probably quit altogether. At least, that last part was how I felt playing those guys. I may be able to make a bank the next time I see you, so be afraid!

The burgers were good. I still need to get ahold of Joe and hook him up with more burritos. Damn I've been busy this year. I'll be interested in finding out who's going on the road next time. Darren and Nick were fun to be around, so either way I'm not worried.

Well with Bonus ball going on I'm not exactly sure who it will be. It may be Me and you holding the clinics. OOf course the price will go down to $5.00 a person. When I say $5 a person I mean we may have to pay them to take the clinic

 

[Straightpool_99]

...............

 

[Banks]

It's sad in that the sheer number would make it viable at a per player cost of almost nothing... viable but still not fair....

The idea Mark had for the USAPL was to require player interactions and actually provide added value to the league thru the connection to the pro players... Last I heard the pros had the normal attitude of not being willing to work the promotions side of it... Maybe Bonus Ball makes it and we will all be working hard to get a spot on a team... Maybe it fails and the pros will get behind USAPL if Mark is still willing....

Europe may have the right model but I don't know if someone even introduced it here that it would succeed between the wants/needs of the tournament players vs the wants/needs of the league players vs the wants/needs of the pros vs the wants/needs of the promoters and on and on........

Chris

I agree. As I said, I think I've mentioned something similar in the past, but from everything I've seen they all tend to shoot themselves in the foot.. and then don't have medical insurance.

Well with Bonus ball going on I'm not exactly sure who it will be. It may be Me and you holding the clinics. OOf course the price will go down to $5.00 a person. When I say $5 a person I mean we may have to pay them to take the clinic

That sounds like a bargain, can I sign up? Heck, if it's only you, I've got a spare room! We can still hang out at Joe's Garage, right? I'll run the numbers past my accountant to see what we can do.. it's possible I could round up 100 APA players for a weekend, $5 a piece and 3 minutes of instructions. Think it'll work?

 

[krupa]

Unfortunately, here in the PNW we're sorely lacking for any type of real tournaments.

Back in 2000 or 2001 when I lived on NW Johnson, I was hanging out at the Silver Dollar and some friends invited me to a tournament at a bar I had never heard of. I jumped in their car and we cruised out Rte. 30 a ways. Come to find out, the tournament was in a strip bar. Can't get more real than that.